NEW CLASS / SERIES; Historic Sports Sedans. formation meeting.20/04/13 ACC

[Rod Grimwood]

That is hard question, 1 how old is engine, 2 how much work has it done, 3 is it only being freshened or tidy up/rebuild from blow. If it has had damage replace all bolts, if only freshen then as George says. Really what you want replaced as it is your engine and $s

[George Sheweiry]

Ok, anyone else besides the 23 drivers who have given their word to be at the first meeting of the HSS, who would like to race at the inaugural meeting we have been asked by the Auckland car club to put in our entries at Motorsport Entries online ,for this meeting asap as they are going to spend some dollars and do some more advertising for the meeting because of the effort that has been put in by our new class but just want a confirmation of entries before they push the boat out. So I have asked the 23 drivers to put their entries in by wed next week to allow the ACC enough time to organize this. I will keep an eye on the entries and post them here on wed night. With only 5 weeks to go we are getting down to the nitty gritty!!! ps; there is 1 entry so far already. any guesses???


Ok it is wed 6th 2.15pm I have just received the entry list of drivers from Motorsport entrys for Historic Sports Sedans, and the entries are, Dennis Running/ RX8, Adrian Dobbe/ Warwick Grey Viva, Clive Sheweiry/DJR Mustang, George Sheweiry/ Richards Sheweiry Boss 302 Mustang, Graeme Addis/ Chev cosworth Charger. So These guys having paid their entries are obviously the ones who actually did think about it when asked to make a commitment to run their cars. Unfortunately to run a standalone class the ACC required a minimum of 10 cars. We will still go to the meeting and it is possible we could pick up 1 or 2 more but it may be just a 1 meeting wonder as we do need 10. Anyway I would like to take the opportunity to apologize to everyone for getting your hopes up but in my defense I must say that I just told you what I had been told and promised by other people. But then it was me who took it on to organize this on behalf of those other people. I thought I had put a large effort into it but obviously it wasn't good enough and for that I am sorry, so I don't really deserve it but please if you were planning on coming for a look on the 8th of September please still do as those guys that have made the effort should get recognition for their efforts. For my part I will still do what I can to get the number up to 10 as that is what I promised the car club and I will now buy another car and put my Cousin Peter Benbrook in it and of course there is still the 79 mustang I bought for Alan to run that if he perhaps has decided not to run I should be able to find someone to drive it, and my son and daughters cars can also run with us for the day. But obviously a class that I have to supply all the cars for is not the best way to go, but I did give my word and that is why I must make the 10. Never the mind I guess you have to try these things. Once again my apologies for letting you down. Sincerely, George Sheweiry.

[Steve Holmes]

Don't apologise George, its hardly your fault. What you've achieved in such a short time should be commended. But you WILL have cars there at that first event, and that is probably the most important thing. For those considering getting involved, once they can see you up and running, it'll give them added motivation. And even if you guys just run high speed demonstration laps so everyone gets some track time, it'll be worth the entry fee alone just to see your Mustang and Addis' Charger out and running again.

[Oldfart]

George, no apology will be accepted. You have more than "put your wotzits on the line". The time frame is/was very short, and with the best will in the world, I suspect, that many of us wondered if the others would ante up. It's very sad you have been let down to this extent. However, just remember that the first E30 BMW race apparently had a total of 8 cars, now they have close on 3 grids full.
I have the utmost admiration for what you WILL achieve.

[Kiwiboss]

George, I've been watching the goings on here like many others, you have done an amazing job but what you've really done is "light the fire" under other Sports Sedan owners that share the same ideals. You will get there but as we both know its takes effort and time and the economy ain't exactly on you side either. Still, HMC started with only 6 legal cars at its first meeting and we refuse to let in "grid fillers", we've been adding 2 or 3 a year and now have momentum that can't be stopped. Tell the ACC to pull there head in, if its only 8 and they are all historically correct Sport Sedans well so be it!! You've done a fantastic job and I for one applaud you

I'll give you a call one night

Dale M

[Racefan]

I will pay to see the cars mentioned no apologies required.

[Habu]

I will pay to see the cars mentioned no apologies required.

^ 2nd that. Id be happy to see 4 historic Sports Sedans circulating. Congratulations on motivating the owners of some of the most exciting cars ever to race in NZ to run their cars again. Looking forward to September :D

Come on you guys who fronted at Georges formative meeting and made a commitment to run - put your entries in. Make the commitment. If you have a deadline, its always motivation!!!!

[George Sheweiry]

Hey thanks for the support guys it means a lot! As Promised here is a photo of the XE Falcon I bought last night to make sure that I have the 10 cars that I promised the car club. My cousin Peter Benbrook who has kindly agreed to run it on the day for me has now put in an entry for the 8th, the only problem is I now have to find the time to build an enclosed trailer ($9k materials and 1 1/2 weeks work) to put it in as I dont have anywhere to keep it and also to get it to the track let alone not let "the war department" see it!! 20191

[CUSTAXIE50]

Hey thanks for the support guys it means a lot! As Promised here is a photo of the XE Falcon I bought last night to make sure that I have the 10 cars that I promised the car club. My cousin Peter Benbrook who has kindly agreed to run it on the day for me has now put in an entry for the 8th, the only problem is I now have to find the time to build an enclosed trailer ($9k materials and 1 1/2 weeks work) to put it in as I dont have anywhere to keep it and also to get it to the track let alone not let "the war department" see it!! 20191

What a Bastard this has turned into George,you know George maybe its just me getting older that i feel nz today is all full of piss and wind,and a mans word today is not worth a grain of salt.I can only talk for myself but like most out here all the very best to you, and others who have put there time and money into the best class that nz has put together.ps i will do my best to get up there.

[George Sheweiry]

Hey thanks for the support Custaxie, it DOES make a difference. But then I do have a major fault of being too enthusiastic as when someone tells me they will do something I just naturally believe them because I know if I say something I will follow it through, I am a handshake guy, and you are probably right that in that way of thinking it is probably a relic from the past. Then of course luckily we are all different as it would be boring if we all were the same and did the same, however in saying that, it doesn't make the disappointment any easier and of course dumb me blabbing away saying oh yes we've got this car and that car and the ones that really know sitting there laughing at me going no you haven't you dick! But f--k it I will be there and I will have some fun. So if you do get there, come say hello as it would be great to meet you. cheers, George. Ps would be neat if the Custaxie2 turned up!!

[Grant Sprague]

Mate you gave it a go, I thought at the time wooow this is a giant call , some of the cars mentioned [probably all of them ] would need major re builds ...... we know what its like to have a race car in a shed for even 2 years let alone 20 plus... wheel cylinders seized , clutches rusted to fly wheels , batteres dead , radiators leaking, valves rusted to seats, fuel hoses & pumps etc etc ... new certs for roll bars , paper work lost, the list goes on & on, BUT George the intention was there , we can all get over excited [all of us] as Ernie often said expectations are greater than realization....... so we move on , tomorrow is an other day ....hope a few of the boys turn up , what will be wil be .............. Grant

[Oldfart]

Come on George, you don't HAVE to build a trailer, Pete has heaps of space at his place.:cool:

[kiwi285]

George - it would be almost impossible to do more than you have done to stir these car owners into action. No apologies should be made - they should come from the people who said yes but haven't fronted.

I will be there with bells on. It will be worth it to see the Mustang and the Charger on track together and doing what they did best in period.

[Racefan]

Once the others see you guys running the momentum will build . These are some of the most exciting race cars ever run in NZ I cant wait to see them on the track again.

[George Sheweiry]

Ok here is the latest list of entries for HSS as at 4pm friday from the NZIGP ;--


1 Graeme Addis Charger Cosworth Chev 366
2 Ricky Cooper Datsun 240Z
3 Roger Davis Torana A9X chev 358
4 Mike Dias Mustang DJR JPS 302
5 Adrian Dobbe Viva HDT 6
6 Dennis Running RX8 chev 366
7 Clive Sheweiry Ford Mustang GpA 302
8 George Sheweiry snr Ford Boss Mustang 366 Gurney Weslake

Other drivers who have since confirmed to me their intention to run;---

9 Peter Benbrook Ford Falcon SVO 351C
10 Simon Ussher Vauxhall Chevette 350 chev
11 John Dennehy Ford Escort Twin Cam
12 Barry Algie Holden Monaro 355 chev

and the Ian Algie Alfetta Milidon Chev 302 will be there but on display
and Craig Stacey should have the Fahey Anglia on display and its still a chance he may race it on the day

[kiwi285]

The numbers are starting to build. Keep the faith George - we are all rooting for you and the series.

[Rod Grimwood]

Ok here is the latest list of entries for HSS as at 4pm friday from the NZIGP ;--


1 Graeme Addis Charger Cosworth Chev 366
2 Ricky Cooper Datsun 240Z
3 Roger Davis Torana A9X chev 358
4 Mike Dias Mustang DJR JPS 302
5 Adrian Dobbe Viva HDT 6
6 Dennis Running RX8 chev 366
7 Clive Sheweiry Ford Mustang GpA 302
8 George Sheweiry snr Ford Boss Mustang 366 Gurney Weslake

Other drivers who have since confirmed to me their intention to run;---

9 Peter Benbrook Ford Falcon SVO 351C
10 Simon Ussher Vauxhall Chevette 350 chev
11 John Dennehy Ford Escort Twin Cam
12 Barry Algie Holden Monaro 355 chev

and the Ian Algie Alfetta Milidon Chev 302 will be there but on display
and Craig Stacey should have the Fahey Anglia on display and its still a chance he may race it on the day


Mate you are getting there, great to see Roger with his A9X this is a neat car. And Barry back again in his beast, Graeme the Charger, that Dobbe (Dodgy) character, the RX8 is great, tricky Ricky, young biscuit, JPS is a yes, Want to have a look at this Chevette as well, Peter in Falcon may need a navigator or GPS but will come right, and a mighty Escort to keep you all honest, and all the others, it will be good.
I will be there to help out if needed, that's all I can do at moment, so see you all there.

Cheers George keep the smile going cobber.

PS Craig may be able to 'sweeten' things up.

[Grant Sprague]

George see how quick things can change [another day tomorrow] !!!!. You sounded pretty down the other day when u phoned... you were down BUT not out ........ your intentions have great energy things might keep flowing for you , well done keep moving forward brother .........

[Malcolm McLeod]

I think I will be asking for flag point 1, so I can watch the emotion-charged drivers as they start their first race....
Well done George, as someone who has only read about these vehicles, I am really looking forward to this race meeting.
Bring it on!!!!!!!

[Rod Grimwood]

This is a sticker that George had a few hundred printed and gave them to people along with a flyer about Historic Sports Sedans at the Speed Show. This at his expense, so shows the guy's compassion for what he is trying to get going. And he will succeed as more boy's sort their toy's. I'll organize the sausages if some one does the BBQ for lunch time.

[George Sheweiry]

Just had a chat with the ACC and they have advised me that they want at least the last race to be a handicap because when I proposed the new class to them it was for 1 scratch race, 1 reverse grid with 5 secs between each 2 cars let go and the last a handicap and also because of the spectators point of view and that they will reconsider the format again after the inaugural meeting. It is of course their sandpit so we can both see how it goes for that first meet and move forward form there, personally I think this a good thing and I have full faith in my fellow competitors that all will use their mirrors and it of course is not F1 and Bernie wont be on the sidelines looking for some new blood, and as usual your comments would be invaluable

[Grant Sprague]

George ......... you know what happens when the helmets go on & you check yr belts , & the tyres & brakes are warm & the flag or lights are about to go !!!, yep good reminder about the mirrors though, How many times has that one come up ???????? . Good luck guys

[Rod Grimwood]

George ......... you know what happens when the helmets go on & you check yr belts , & the tyres & brakes are warm & the flag or lights are about to go !!!, yep good reminder about the mirrors though, How many times has that one come up ???????? . Good luck guys

Hopefully all involved realise that part of life (well in these cars) is over. The cars are to valuable (little bit like the guy's with them) Just give each other room, use your mirror (it's not to do your hair in) and hold your line as the faster boys will go past when it is time. As George say's, the crowd watching won't be there with a contract, but cameras, so give them something to take photos of. (and smile)

[John McKechnie]

Sounds like mandatory open face helmets will make for better facial expressions caught on camera for example when a faster car goes by............

[rogered]

Hopefully all involved realise that part of life (well in these cars) is over. The cars are to valuable (little bit like the guy's with them) Just give each other room, use your mirror (it's not to do your hair in) and hold your line as the faster boys will go past when it is time. As George say's, the crowd watching won't be there with a contract, but cameras, so give them something to take photos of. (and smile)

those are very sensible words of advice. have you found god or something ?:)

[Rod Grimwood]

Bless you, as you know I was always the quite, religious one amongst us. How is that red beast coming on Roger, can't wait to see it again.

[Shoreboy57]

George see how quick things can change [another day tomorrow] !!!!. You sounded pretty down the other day when u phoned... you were down BUT not out ........ your intentions have great energy things might keep flowing for you , well done keep moving forward brother .........

Good words Grant (and everyone else)
George - despite a minor setback have no fear. I will be there to watch. Message to ACC - that is at least one extra spectator simply because of this new class. be nice to see one or two more just on display as a sign of intent

[camaroman slp]

Steve Ross should take up the PDL mustang 1 to race with Georges ex Jim Richards sidchrome mustang that would be neat to see.I hope we are lucky to see full video footage on this site cheers.

[Grant Sprague]

If you gave Steve a phone call , I would just about put some $$ on it he would turn up .............. would you like me to test the water for you let me know , but wil have to act on it soon .....

[Steve Holmes]

Now that would be something to see, those two historic Mustang's on the track together, for the first time in over 30 years.

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[George Sheweiry]

Once again guys thank you for the support, with regards to PDL 1 from what I understand the car is now fitted with Nascar engine and box, I dont know why you would want to do that but if enough people have a word in his ear , Ya never know!

[George Sheweiry]

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[George Sheweiry]

So the days are falling away fast to our inaugural HSS meet. A surprise paid up entry is Roger Williams in the ex Bowe/Thompson Mercedes coupe. Welcome aboard Roger and thank you for the support to this new series. I had not contacted Roger or any of the others who were running in the Allcomer class he had organised because I did not want to tread on any toes or be responsible for taking cars from another class to create yet another new class. Of course with the inclusion of this car it will make redundant 95% of the cars that have so far made intentions to run, as like PDL ll it is a full space frame car and was built in the later years of sports sedans thus utilising all mods and advances up to that date in its construction where as the earlier cars were more a conventional car with the addition of bigger wheels with flares a different make of engine and perhaps some engine setback. But this will make for a great charge in the handicap race and I think will be the race to watch, mainly because in a scratch race the cars basically finish in the same order as they start, but of course in a handicap its anyones guess, which will make it just that much more interesting. Also I would like to welcome John Rush in a mkll Escort chev 350 who is currently working on the car to have it ready possibly by the 3rd or 4th meeting


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[Rod Grimwood]

We had a few space frame, frame/floor pan cars back then, even a black modified VW.

The Merc is a neat bit of gear and be great to see it out there. it was one of Aussies top Sports Sedans when Bryan Thompson built and ran it.
Photo is when Thompson ran twin turbos on it.
See you there.

[rogered]

Am i right in thinking this thing was built from hannu Mikkola merc rally car that ran in NZ.

PM sent rod

[Steve Holmes]

Roger, is this the Escort you're referring to? Is this the car Brendon Neiman (sp?) built and raced many years ago?

[CUSTAXIE50]

Once again guys thank you for the support, with regards to PDL 1 from what I understand the car is now fitted with Nascar engine and box, I dont know why you would want to do that but if enough people have a word in his ear , Ya never know! You asked why,$18,000 gets you a rebuilt nascar engine with 850hp where would you get a engine in nz for that.

[rogered]

yes your right about the escort, but the mercedes i had a feeling was a works rally car

[John McKechnie]

You asked why,$18,000 gets you a rebuilt nascar engine with 850hp where would you get a engine in nz for that.
Nascar motors not original specifications., therefore has no value in famous Historic car.
Answer to your question- get a brand new Arrow 351 Cleveland block, ex Aus, and do it up.These blocks will get 850hp plus and you can still use original cast 4V heads.
Spend a bit more, but it is correct and can now run in Historic meetings.
Simple really.

[George Sheweiry]

You asked why,$18,000 gets you a rebuilt nascar engine with 850hp where would you get a engine in nz for that.

I asked the question why would you do that because what class would you run it in? It would besides the price have been purchased to be competitive but even if you put the latest engine, brakes and gearbox in it, is it going to beat a trans am car? I dont think so, but now if we can get the good ole mainlanders to start an HSS class the car could then run in its original specs and of course we could then have those great North/South clashes and Ian Munt has already got the beginnings of a similar class.

[George Sheweiry]

Roger, is this the Escort you're referring to? Is this the car Brendon Neiman (sp?) built and raced many years ago?

John Rush said in his email that the escort was built in 1999 and has Capri front struts, wilwoods a falcon diff and a tremec box

[George Sheweiry]

Am i right in thinking this thing was built from hannu Mikkola merc rally car that ran in NZ.

PM sent rod

those mercs were pretty impressive, I recall they helicoptered in a new diff when they broke one somewhere in the forest. Was that the Heatway Rally?

[CUSTAXIE50]

Nascar motors not original specifications., therefore has no value in famous Historic car.
Answer to your question- get a brand new Arrow 351 Cleveland block, ex Aus, and do it up.These blocks will get 850hp plus and you can still use original cast 4V heads.
Spend a bit more, but it is correct and can now run in Historic meetings.
Simple really. yes i know its not the same,spend a bit more you say what would it be $30,000

[CUSTAXIE50]

I asked the question why would you do that because what class would you run it in? It would besides the price have been purchased to be competitive but even if you put the latest engine, brakes and gearbox in it, is it going to beat a trans am car? I dont think so, but now if we can get the good ole mainlanders to start an HSS class the car could then run in its original specs and of course we could then have those great North/South clashes and Ian Munt has already got the beginnings of a similar class. The car was build from a road car like yours, a trans am car as you know is not the same in any way at all only my view.

[George Sheweiry]

The car was build from a road car like yours, a trans am car as you know is not the same in any way at all only my view.

Yes, I agree Custaxie50, in fact that was my point, what class could you run the car in, The Brennan GT1 class?? which of course runs TA cars and of course with that engine etc it wouldn't be allowed to run in any Historic class. And that is the whole point, it is such a significant piece of NZ saloon car history that it needs to be as it was, and if you go back thru the HSS thread that seems to be the majority line of thought. In fact i'm glad you brought this up because you have just jolted my mind about inviting the Custaxie ll to run at the first meeting of HSS. Would you or anyone reading this post know how I can get hold of the current owner. Thanks for that Custaxe50! George.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Yes, I agree Custaxie50, in fact that was my point, what class could you run the car in, The Brennan GT1 class?? which of course runs TA cars and of course with that engine etc it wouldn't be allowed to run in any Historic class. And that is the whole point, it is such a significant piece of NZ saloon car history that it needs to be as it was, and if you go back thru the HSS thread that seems to be the majority line of thought. In fact i'm glad you brought this up because you have just jolted my mind about inviting the Custaxie ll to run at the first meeting of HSS. Would you or anyone reading this post know how I can get hold of the current owner. Thanks for that Custaxe50! George. As we all know the all new custaxie is in Wanganui,the gent who works on this car has a place in Wanganui if i recall right the phone number is 06 3453228 hope this is some good to you.as i said before i may come up for the meeting,now if you get the custaxie to run that weekend how could i not come up for a look see, all the best to you and others who have put all this work into getting some of the old girls out there.

[John McKechnie]

yes i know its not the same,spend a bit more you say what would it be $30,000

I will let you know in 6 weeks time.

[George Sheweiry]

Thanks Custaxie50 I rang straight away and the people at the workshop were able to give me his ph # so I rang but he is away till this weekend, so I shall ring him on monday and try my best to get him there for you. I just received the following photo from my brother Clive of his DJR Mustang at the sign writers, having just been painted the week before. I called in and had a look the day before and I have to say the car looks absolutely gorgeous. Its going to be a fantastic looking grid!

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[Rod Grimwood]

The car was build from a road car like yours, a trans am car as you know is not the same in any way at all only my view.

Think if you research custaxie50 you will find it was not a road car and actually a few bits done to it before it arrived over here.

hey be good to see you come up for the day, contact us if you do.

[Rod Grimwood]

yes your right about the escort, but the mercedes i had a feeling was a works rally car


Will contact you Rog, have a article on the build/history of the Merc some where (think it was in Australian Muscle Car) couple years back.

[kiwi285]

Thanks Custaxie50 I rang straight away and the people at the workshop were able to give me his ph # so I rang but he is away till this weekend, so I shall ring him on monday and try my best to get him there for you. I just received the following photo from my brother Clive of his DJR Mustang at the sign writers, having just been painted the week before. I called in and had a look the day before and I have to say the car looks absolutely gorgeous. Its going to be a fantastic looking grid!

20984

That is a great looking car George and will help make up a great grid for the first meeting.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Think if you research custaxie50 you will find it was not a road car and actually a few bits done to it before it arrived over here.

hey be good to see you come up for the day, contact us if you do.Its got a road going floor

[Frosty5]

Thanks Custaxie50 I rang straight away and the people at the workshop were able to give me his ph # so I rang but he is away till this weekend, so I shall ring him on monday and try my best to get him there for you. I just received the following photo from my brother Clive of his DJR Mustang at the sign writers, having just been painted the week before. I called in and had a look the day before and I have to say the car looks absolutely gorgeous. Its going to be a fantastic looking grid!

20984

I don't recall Dick having a white Mustang?????

[rogered]

I don't recall Dick having a white Mustang?????
yes he did :)

[rogered]

Bless you, as you know I was always the quite, religious one amongst us. How is that red beast coming on Roger, can't wait to see it again.

20994
20995
plodding along

[George Sheweiry]

Good on you Roger, it will be great to see your car run as I dont recall seeing it in the past. It would be great if we could get Alan Fergusons Marley sponsored Torana back as well. Anyone know where that car went. Apparently it was sold to Asia but was brought back here??

[George Sheweiry]

I don't recall Dick having a white Mustang?????

He sure did, it was when he first bought the car and he also had it black with JPS livery, now Mike Dias who is kindly going to run the Mustang I was forced to buy because of the slackers who were pulling out after saying they would run has painted it black and we are getting it signed up to the JPS scheme but the signwriters need some better shots, so please has anyone some good photos of the JPS car. These are the only 2 I could find on the net.

2100721008

[Frosty5]

He sure did, it was when he first bought the car and he also had it black with JPS livery, now Mike Dias who is kindly going to run the Mustang I was forced to buy because of the slackers who were pulling out after saying they would run has painted it black and we are getting it signed up to the JPS scheme but the signwriters need some better shots, so please has anyone some good photos of the JPS car. These are the only 2 I could find on the net.

2100721008

Well,bugger me. It was always green from my recollection apart from when croaky Crichton secured JPS sponsorship for the Welington and Pukekohe rounds of Nissan Mobil. Did Dick ever race it in white as I believe he only used it for two seasons prior to his Sierras arriving. A stop gap measure I think he called it.
Cheers Dave Graham

[George Sheweiry]

Hey Dave, Here is the car at the end of conrod straight. the only difference is that instead of Johnson /French on the windscreen banner its going to say Sheweiry / Johnson . A nice touch , dont ya think!!

21009

[Jac Mac]

White car only practiced @ Bathurst 84, Johnson used XE for race, following year (85) mustang was green with Larry Perkins as co-driver. That is why frosty5 wont have seen it run in white.

[George Sheweiry]

Well done Jac mac, there arent many photos of it either. Have you finished the work on the T44 housing yet as I would like to buy 1 or maybe 2 for some projects, like a mk1V or G7-A replica and also for my Pantera Sports Sedan project as I had come to the conclusion back in 84 that the DG300 that I got with the rest of the Pederson/Radisich M18 bits that I bought off Kelvin Camerons widow wasn't going to be strong enough for an injected 366 in a car probably twice the weight of a F5000. Could I have your details please or could you send me them to George at sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz. Thanks.

[Jac Mac]

Patterns/Housings still require some work yet George, like you Ive got too many projects on the go at moment & as some of those belong to other folk Im trying to get them out of the way first before creating another headache. Dont worry, I have your details & will contact you when I have some good metal bits.:). G7-A, I see one of those has just finished being rebuilt as a MKIV so in theory that means there is only one 'real' G7-A left.

[Frosty5]

Hey Dave, Here is the car at the end of conrod straight. the only difference is that instead of Johnson /French on the windscreen banner its going to say Sheweiry / Johnson . A nice touch , dont ya think!!

21009

Absolutely. Give my regards to Clive, met him during my time at A&G Price when he was endeavoring to sell me BOC products but unfortunately the boss had locked us into his competitor.

[Frosty5]

White car only practiced @ Bathurst 84, Johnson used XE for race, following year (85) mustang was green with Larry Perkins as co-driver. That is why frosty5 wont have seen it run in white.

Dead right Jac Mac. I crewed for Robbie & John Bowe in the Volvo from 85 and Dick's car was definitely green. 84 was the last year of Group C so missed it by a year and that's what threw me about the white car. Cheers for that info.
Dave Graham

[superford]

Here are the JPS Mustang shots that I have saved;

I think these were taken by the late Southspeed? Please correct me if i'm wrong.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/img425.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/img425.jpg.html)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/img402.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/img402.jpg.html)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/img254copy.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/img254copy.jpg.html)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/img263copy.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/img263copy.jpg.html)

[superford]

And a couple more;

This one scanned from the 1986 Bathurst Program I think;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/st19.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/st19.jpg.html)


And another from when it first arrived back in aussie after the Nissan Mobil series;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/scn0004u.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/scn0004u.jpg.html)

[superford]

Hey Dave, Here is the car at the end of conrod straight. the only difference is that instead of Johnson /French on the windscreen banner its going to say Sheweiry / Johnson . A nice touch , dont ya think!!

21009

Hi George, is Clive's Mustang one of the genuine DJR Mustangs or is it a replica? The photo you posted looks awesome by the way and I hope to get to HD to see it!

[George Sheweiry]

Wow superford those shots are just awesome, thanks for that , now I think the signwriter will have enough shots to be able to dress the black mustang up. Yes, Clives car is a replica. He always does a good job of getting things right with good attention to detail. He did a Greenstuff falcon that he was going to run in production muscle cars but sold it when he did a stint in Australia for his job. Paul Urquhart raced it in PMS then Justin Butcher bought it from him and races it in Northern Muscle.

[superford]

Wow superford those shots are just awesome, thanks for that , now I think the signwriter will have enough shots to be able to dress the black mustang up. Yes, Clives car is a replica. He always does a good job of getting things right with good attention to detail. He did a Greenstuff falcon that he was going to run in production muscle cars but sold it when he did a stint in Australia for his job. Paul Urquhart raced it in PMS then Justin Butcher bought it from him and races it in Northern Muscle.

No worries George! - I should also have noted that the first two shots had been posted in other Roaring Season threads in the past.

I've also just found some more shots of the 1984 DJ Mustang in its white clothing - will need to scan them first, but i'll do that this afternoon. One particularly good shot from the rear so will help with the sign writing should you not already have that angle.

By the way, I love what you've done to the Sidchrome Mustang. My all time dream car and the sole reason I'm trying to get to HD next week!!

[nigel watts]

Here are the JPS Mustang shots that I have saved;

I think these were taken by the late Southspeed? Please correct me if i'm wrong.

These are my shots taken at the 1986 Nissan Mobil at Pukekohe.

[superford]

These are my shots taken at the 1986 Nissan Mobil at Pukekohe.

Hi Nigel, please accept my sincere apologies for my mistake. I wasn't sure and shouldn't have guessed.... Those photos you took of all of the 86 Nissan Mobil cars are absolutely fantastic and I applaud you for sharing them with the Roaring Season community. Cheers, Jarrod

[superford]

1984 Bathurst Practice shots of DJ's Muzzy.

Photos scanned from the 'Bathurst' Annual and the 'James Hardie 1000' Annual from 1984

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/djr1001a.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/djr1001a.jpg.html)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/djr2001a.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/djr2001a.jpg.html)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h319/superfordpix/djr3001.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superfordpix/media/djr3001.jpg.html)

[George Sheweiry]

Yes I agree, thank you all who have contributed photos to this site, you know I often find myself thinking, Hey I was at that meeting, I wonder if I am lurking in the background of one of those photos!! lol

[George Sheweiry]

We have another unexpected welcome entry in the form, of Robert Jack in the ex Brennan Escort/Chev which is good as it will give some competition to Roger Williams Mercedes coupe. The ACC did a 5 minute spiel Sunday on Radio Live. for those of you who would like to hear it you need to go to Radio Live website under Audio-Sunday 4:15 slot and about 3 1/4 of the way through the time slot. Also keep an ear open from thursday on for the ACC adverts for HD on Sunday on The Rock radio station 90.2

21053

[Rod Grimwood]

We have another unexpected welcome entry in the form, of Robert Jack in the ex Brennan Escort/Chev which is good as it will give some competition to Roger Williams Mercedes coupe. The ACC did a 5 minute spiel Sunday on Radio Live. for those of you who would like to hear it you need to go to Radio Live website under Audio-Sunday 4:15 slot and about 3 1/4 of the way through the time slot. Also keep an ear open from thursday on for the ACC adverts for HD on Sunday on The Rock radio station 90.2

21053


Be great to see this car again, one of the originals.

[Rod Grimwood]

Couple of photos from original days


Top photo is later on with flares tidied up

[John McKechnie]

George- can you please put up the program for Sunday please, need to know what time to be there. And as I still dont have an engine in my car, I will be a spectator.
Will have Barry Algie with me as too many things to complete his Monaro- radiator, floor, front clip etc. Really wanted to be there on the grid with the guys.
Will definitely be there later .
People will recognise us by our envious looks.

[Rod Grimwood]

Got a rough idea what Barry looks like, and as for you, we won't miss you guys. Be good to see you and catch up.
I aim to be there Saturday, Morning Maramarua, afternoon HD and Sunday for fun and off home after.

[Steve Holmes]

White car only practiced @ Bathurst 84, Johnson used XE for race, following year (85) mustang was green with Larry Perkins as co-driver. That is why frosty5 wont have seen it run in white.

Yep thats right, it was white when it appeared at Bathurst in 1984, as thats the colour it was supplied to Johnson, from Zakspeed who had been racing it in Europe. It also appeared in late 1984 at a Queensland event (maybe Surfers Paradise?), but I think was only doing demonstration laps, to show the local supporters what their favourite son would be driving in 1985. It was entered for Bathurst as a back-up, should anything happen to the Falcon, even though it wasn't anywhere near being as quick as the Group C cars, but there was a Group A class created for that years race. Johnson did some practice laps in it, just to see how it felt, but spent most of his time in the Falcon, understandibly, so photos of the Mustang are quite rare.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Thanks Custaxie50 I rang straight away and the people at the workshop were able to give me his ph # so I rang but he is away till this weekend, so I shall ring him on monday and try my best to get him there for you. I just received the following photo from my brother Clive of his DJR Mustang at the sign writers, having just been painted the week before. I called in and had a look the day before and I have to say the car looks absolutely gorgeous. Its going to be a fantastic looking grid!

20984 How did you get on about getting the custaxie 2-to run at this meeting.

[bob homewood]

Thanks to George for putting this altogether ,I had originally have hoped to be there as well ,but in reality with what I have on outside getting the car ready, it is just not possible ,hopefully if the opportunity is still there it might be there in the future

[George Sheweiry]

How did you get on about getting the custaxie 2-to run at this meeting.

Just got off ph with Robert and unfortunately he is busy this weekend however he would like to run in the class, He says they have done a whole lot of improvements to the car to make it more reliable including 6 pot brakes to help make it stop. I will be interested to see what times he gets around HD in. Robbie put it around in a 1.22.2, my Comet (with virtually the same brakes he just took off) 1.15.5. Its not too difficult to get the best out of what ever brakes a car has and I'm positive we could get his originals to work ok.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Just got off ph with Robert and unfortunately he is busy this weekend however he would like to run in the class, He says they have done a whole lot of improvements to the car to make it more reliable including 6 pot brakes to help make it stop. I will be interested to see what times he gets around HD in. Robbie put it around in a 1.22.2, my Comet (with virtually the same brakes he just took off) 1.15.5. Its not too difficult to get the best out of what ever brakes a car has and I'm positive we could get his originals to work ok. Still needs some more work done to it to run some fast laps.

[9lives]

Do you have a final entry list of cars that will make it there this weekend... great job on starting this class and it can only grow from here.

[nigel watts]

Hi Nigel, please accept my sincere apologies for my mistake. I wasn't sure and shouldn't have guessed.... Those photos you took of all of the 86 Nissan Mobil cars are absolutely fantastic and I applaud you for sharing them with the Roaring Season community. Cheers, Jarrod

No worries Jarrod. TRS is a great place for us to put our photos so other enthusiasts can see them too.
Cheers
Nigel

[George Sheweiry]

Do you have a final entry list of cars that will make it there this weekend... great job on starting this class and it can only grow from here.

the entries to today are;

Graeme Addis Charger/chev cosworth 366
Calvin Andrew Commodore 308
Peter Benbrook Falcon SVO 351
Ricky Cooper Datsun 240Z
Roger Davis Torana/chev 350
Mike Dias Mustang DJR JPS 302
Paul Dunkley Escort/pinto 2.3
Adrian Dobbe Viva/HDT 202
Robert Jack Escort/chev 366
Dennis Running Mazda RX8/chev 366
Ivan Seliac Escort CosworthYB
Clive Sheweiry Mustang DJR 302
George Sheweiry Boss Mustang/Gurney Wesklake 366
Roger Williams Mercedes/chev 366

[Oldfart]

That's a great start! Congratulations for achieving this, and thanks for all the effort.
Just remember that the first grid of E30 BMWs had a total of 8. Now look at them.
YeeHa.

[9lives]

Yes pretty strong list for the first event.. can only grow from here. Thanks for the update George.

[Rod Grimwood]

the entries to today are;

Graeme Addis Charger/chev cosworth 366
Calvin Andrew Commodore 308
Peter Benbrook Falcon SVO 351
Ricky Cooper Datsun 240Z
Roger Davis Torana/chev 350
Mike Dias Mustang DJR JPS 302
Paul Dunkley Escort/pinto 2.3
Adrian Dobbe Viva/HDT 202
Robert Jack Escort/chev 366
Dennis Running Mazda RX8/chev 366
Ivan Seliac Escort CosworthYB
Clive Sheweiry Mustang DJR 302
George Sheweiry Boss Mustang/Gurney Wesklake 366
Roger Williams Mercedes/chev 366




That is looking pretty good, can't wait to see the cars. Great job Graeme getting the Charger up, also Roger with the Torana and name sake with Merc. Robert Escort great,the Dobbe gang beware, Paul neat Escort all good, Dennis great to see the RX again,Calvin,Ricky, Ivan have not meet yet but will this weekend welcome,Mike in the little Mussie and last but not least l Big effort George Sheweiry congrates chap and I will pat your back for you champ, and good to see Bro in Mussie as well.

On my way down now, and if anyone needs a hand there just yell out and will do what can be done.
0272752264

Going to rally Sat morn then to HD

[Jizim]

Well done George..... have you got the Pantera ready for me yet? Can't wait to see all you guys again....hope Jim Shorty turns up for a gander. Now Rodney....are you staying at HD Sat night? or do you wanna throw ya head down at my place...(Cindy in Aussie ). We could have a bevvie and reinvent the wheel.......? I will try and find some pix and guff for ya George....got lots to pick from....(may still have some of the Secretarial stuff from SSA..... ) John McKechnie....where's ya XA mate. See ya'all at the week end....I'm running Supercharged XR8 in all the races! Kindest regards, Tony Rutherford.

[John McKechnie]

Well done George..... have you got the Pantera ready for me yet? Can't wait to see all you guys again....hope Jim Shorty turns up for a gander. Now Rodney....are you staying at HD Sat night? or do you wanna throw ya head down at my place...(Cindy in Aussie ). We could have a bevvie and reinvent the wheel.......? I will try and find some pix and guff for ya George....got lots to pick from....(may still have some of the Secretarial stuff from SSA..... ) John McKechnie....where's ya XA mate. See ya'all at the week end....I'm running Supercharged XR8 in all the races! Kindest regards, Tony Rutherford.

Jizim- I sent an email to George giving my apologies as the motor needed to come out and wont be ready this weekend,. Bruce, Barry Algie and myself- all of us slackers- will be the 3 Men in a Boat [ without Montmorency]
.Sidi wont see which way you have gone with your wheels....
See you there Sunday.

[John McKechnie]

Tony- have you found that RX-2 in your garage yet, todays the day.............

[John McKechnie]

Can anyone say what the weather and track conditions are like at HD this morning?

[car96]

Just got home from HD, hearing that mustang for the for 1st time in over 30yr's was bliss, the bark of the exhaust on deceleration was music to my ears, then to hear it accelerate up over the top!

[kiwi285]

Here are a couple of photos from today

http://i41.tinypic.com/28wo2dt.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/1tou8g.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/vrd9cn.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/3byvt.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/50flt1.jpg

[Snoozin]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/9696763887_179f235c05_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9696763887/)
IMG_4621 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9696763887/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

Beautiful!!!

[TonyG]

Any pics of the other cars?

[Snoozin]

Plenty, I'll be processing a bunch tomorrow evening and will share.

Thanks, Rich

[Rod Grimwood]

Just got home from HD, hearing that mustang for the for 1st time in over 30yr's was bliss, the bark of the exhaust on deceleration was music to my ears, then to hear it accelerate up over the top!

Yep agree, wasn't to bad was it. Be good when the others are there. I got a Couple of photos of others that bark as well. Congrates to those that ran/fronted there cars today. Unreal how they will treat you, poor Roger Davis gets into car for practice and ignition has decided it wants a holiday. That Torana is a neat bit of gear, and if you get a chance have a look at how it was built and the suspension set up, remember this is not a new car.
Well next time hopefully more the merrier.

[Rod Grimwood]

I will leave the rest to the experts, a couple of stills of George getting ready, the Mighty Merc and Mr Jacks neat Escort.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Well, I just want to say a big, BIG thanks to George, and the other drivers out there that committed to the day.
April wasn't that long ago, and today's races may have been a bit of a mixed entry, but you can see the intention is there to make this something great!
I look foward to the next couple of meetings, where maybe I will be able to watch, instead of having to wave the blue flag at ya!
Again George, thanks heaps for what you are doing - I'm sure I speak for all us marshals when I say we can't wait to see a full field of these Sports Sedans! !!!

[TonyG]

Cheers Rich. Would have loved to have been back home to see them.


Plenty, I'll be processing a bunch tomorrow evening and will share.

Thanks, Rich

[TonyG]

Thanks Rod. Photos appreciated. Those DJR Mustang replicas looked the part too.

[Steve Holmes]

Great photos guys, thanks for posting. Greame Addis emailed me on Friday to say the Charger wasn't quite ready to run, so would have to miss the event, but now these guys have got their first event under their belts, people can see what they're all about, hopefully there will be more cars come out of the woodwork.

The same thing is also happening in Australia. Wouldn't it be great to see some Aus vs NZ Historic Sports Sedan events.

[Rod Grimwood]

Photo of RX8 came out fuzzy (bugger) but it is a neat car also, and after the cobwebs were blown off car and little bit of right hand lock for dipper it was great to hear it again.
To all involved, 'thanks'
Right Tony, the DJR cars looked good.
With teething problems out of way and couple more cars it will be good.

[Steve Holmes]

Interesting to see the old Kieran Wills Mazda RX8 is still in NZ. There was quite a lot of interest in this car a few years ago. I can't recall exactly its significance, but its either the first RX7 to be imported into Australia, or the first RX7 to have raced in Australian Group C. But Wills bought it out of Australia as a Group C car in the 1980s to run the Cool Wool series, which is what the ShellSport series morphed into. Obviously a LOT of work required to return it to Group C spec.

[Shoreboy57]

Well, I just want to say a big, BIG thanks to George, and the other drivers out there that committed to the day.
April wasn't that long ago, and today's races may have been a bit of a mixed entry, but you can see the intention is there to make this something great!
I look foward to the next couple of meetings, where maybe I will be able to watch, instead of having to wave the blue flag at ya!
Again George, thanks heaps for what you are doing - I'm sure I speak for all us marshals when I say we can't wait to see a full field of these Sports Sedans! !!!

+1 Worth the trip to HD for the Mustang alone, but the rest a bonus. Well done George for getting this started and I'm sure now its underway it will serve as inspiration for those who were going to need more time, and maybe draw a few other potential runners out of the shed

[Rod Grimwood]

Interesting to see the old Kieran Wills Mazda RX8 is still in NZ. There was quite a lot of interest in this car a few years ago. I can't recall exactly its significance, but its either the first RX7 to be imported into Australia, or the first RX7 to have raced in Australian Group C. But Wills bought it out of Australia as a Group C car in the 1980s to run the Cool Wool series, which is what the ShellSport series morphed into. Obviously a LOT of work required to return it to Group C spec.

Think Phil Henley also ran a RX7 Group C from Aus in series. Pretty sure Cran Judge (AC Gill Menswear) may have been involved in it (owned it). Got videos somewhere of them racing.

It is very different to Group C now, and has its own history now.

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, exactly right Rod. It has quite an impressive NZ Sports Sedan history. Would be a HUGE job reverting it back to Group C spec, I think Wills even had the rear axle moved back to increase the wheelbase. The interest is due to the rapidly increasing values in Group C cars, as with the Heritage Touring Cars series, only the original cars are eligible to race, and its become very popular.

[Rod Grimwood]

Steve, off thread but can you email/contact me at home. got package back yesterday that i sent to you in December last year. remove this when done, cheers or i can

[George Sheweiry]

Hi guys, Well it is Monday and we have had our first meeting of the series. I have to say I am very humbled by all the guys who promised they would be there who turned up and made an absolutely wonderful days racing for one of the largest and most convivial crowds I have ever seen at a club meeting in over 40 years of competing at them. The atmosphere at the track was absolutely awesome with more people than I can remember coming up and congratulating and wishing us well it was just all very humbling and such a neat thing to be part of. My condolences to Glenn Gordon and Graeme Addis who both put on the mammoth effort to get there but missed and thanks to Craig Stacey who brought out the Fahey Fastback Anglia to be on display, I don't know what happened to Gordon Burrs car that was going to be on display but then I didn't get to go everywhere. There was plenty of other good V8 action in the form of Production Muscle Cars, Northern Muscle Cars and Modified Saloons and the weather which the day before had looked so ominous turned out to be fine all day. A big thank you to my cousin Peter Benbrook who ran the yellow XE falcon for me and to Mike Dias who ran the "JPS" Mustang along with all the work he did to prep it, paint it and all the promotional work he undertook and badgered the ACC into that made for such a fantastic event. To all the people who helped or supported and spread the word thank you very much, "because it worked". As for myself, for the first time in 28 years I got to do practice in the old girl and although on a new track boy did that take me back! but on return to the pits we found the left rear wheel and wheel well awash with oil and even after a clean could not find where it was coming from, possibly the full floater hub. With having my son and daughters race cars as well and everything else that was going on I was just too busy to be able to look at it. A request to just do a few quiet laps at lunchtime fell on deaf ears so it was left on display for the rest of the day. So now in 5 weeks time for the 6th of October we have round 2 of the Historic Sports Sedan Series and if we get all the people who said I wont be there for the first meeting but will be there for the next then the field will be double the 14 cars which will give us around 25 to 28 cars. so come on guys, I gave you my word that I would get you a stand alone series, and that has now been done, remember its use it or loose it and we shouldn't loose the momentum with the spectators that has been started!!

[Malcolm McLeod]

I've got to agree with you on the crowd size George, certainly more people then I expected! Easiest way to judge it - long queue for the hot food at lunchtime!!!
I will be attending the next ACC meeting, but whether to flag, or to "spectate" I have yet to decide.
How do you spectate, anyway - I've never done that, always been helping!

[Snoozin]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/9697443407_74e1a50123_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697443407/)
IMG_4644 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697443407/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5441/9700677868_9b16686ac6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9700677868/)
IMG_4658 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9700677868/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3756/9700677074_607a87645e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9700677074/)
IMG_5066 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9700677074/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/9697440629_4465179837_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697440629/)
IMG_5071 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697440629/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7343/9700674774_5ccbdfb269_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9700674774/)
IMG_5090 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9700674774/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/9697440007_0fa8cbf9b4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697440007/)
IMG_5085 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697440007/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

[Snoozin]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3793/9708359372_eabc486986_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708359372/)
IMG_4624 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708359372/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5328/9697517179_3a9a7e049e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697517179/)
IMG_5043 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9697517179/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5324/9705164031_93095476cc_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9705164031/)
IMG_5099 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9705164031/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/9708398008_f017645091_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708398008/)
IMG_5076 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708398008/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

[Paul Wilkinson]

Was looking forward to watching this - I haven't been to a track in about 12 years. Gutted that I was on a plane to the UK when it was all happening! I hope you don't think this is too gimmicky but I think that from a spectator/marketing point of view it would be great to put a year on each car, i.e. the year its 'state of tune' represents. This could be in one colour while championship years would be in another colour. This would help show the development of the cars, as well as highlight why there are performance differences.

It would be great to put together a display board for each championship car, telling their history and where they are now or what happened to them. These would go well with the rest of the cars in a chronological static display at each event. It might also help flush out cars or generate interest in bringing the old cars out, even just to be on show....

Anyway, well done. Looking forward to watching the next event.

[Frosty5]

Perfect, just perfect. Well done George, as Fitzy would say "full credit"

[Snoozin]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5471/9708553714_082f6db782_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708553714/)
IMG_5362 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708553714/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/9708552988_a6c141fd13_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708552988/)
IMG_5375 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708552988/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7384/9705346461_efa56db75e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9705346461/)
IMG_5357 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9705346461/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3689/9705346241_982d80c123_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9705346241/)
IMG_5355 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9705346241/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr

[Grant Sprague]

Cool

[kiwi285]

This is the car Rod was referring to in post #349 above. Check out the front suspension setup. Rod (in the background) informed me that the car was built in the 1980's - so some smart thinking. That would have been exciting to watch in action but it was not to be.

http://i44.tinypic.com/25tawhv.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/wwdw7a.jpg

A really great start to the series George and hopefully you can take a breather now and get that Mustang going again.

[Rod Grimwood]

This is the car Rod was referring to in post #349 above. Check out the front suspension setup. Rod (in the background) informed me that the car was built in the 1980's - so some smart thinking. That would have been exciting to watch in action but it was not to be.

http://i44.tinypic.com/25tawhv.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/wwdw7a.jpg

A really great start to the series George and hopefully you can take a breather now and get that Mustang going again.

I notice a photo of car on track, so boys must have got her going in the end. I had to leave a little early. wizard Ralph Mossman in man under bonnet trying to diagnose the problem.

[Ellis]

Well done George...and the other owners that made it to the track with their cars.

Some interesting cars thats for sure.
Like that front end....pretty good for the 80's
Out of interest what powers the Merc?

[George Sheweiry]

IMPORTANT MEETING at the Auckland car club rooms this coming Saturday the 14th of September 10am to finalise a set of rules for the new Historic Sports Sedans series. So if you want to have a say you need to be there. I would suggest you read the comments about which way the class should go that have been offered on this thread and talk with other interested parties BEFORE THE DAY!! For instance. Should the cut off date for cars be 1986 to make sure all the earlier lotus twin cams arent made uncompetetive by the Cosworth Sierra motor. Should we allow only replicas of NZ cars no longer around or include overseas types, and a host of other problems. If you cant make it then send me an email with your preferences and ideas because we want to include everyone and try to get it right. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz Remember its your class so have a say!!

[George Sheweiry]

What powers the Merc ? yes that is a question that has been bandied around. I will lay money on it that its not a set of period 292 heads

[Malcolm McLeod]

Which way have the Aussies gone with their Historic Sports Sedans class?

[rogered]

I notice a photo of car on track, so boys must have got her going in the end. I had to leave a little early. wizard Ralph Mossman in man under bonnet trying to diagnose the problem.

now might be a good time mention a few people.

as you know rod the thing was running in the morning but failed to fire a shot come practice time. so after a far bit of pissing around managed to have a run in the last two races which was great , as you know it has not turned a wheel for 12 years.

alot of people jumped in and helped, which we really appreciated.

So thanks a lot to
Steve james.
Rod Grimwood
Ralph mossman
graeme park
syd davis
brendon davis.

and the folks whose names i dont know, who freely offered a hand.
:)

[Rod Grimwood]

Looking at photo Roger, she still goes ok. Great you got to have a squirt. still one of my favourite cars from years gone by. Remember when you first turned up and she was fairly standard with a v8 put in, then she grew some guards and the motor sounded a bit different, then the suspension got some attention and bigger wheels, then some major body work, more trick suspension especially back then, and on she grew into a real handy Sports Sedan. Its a credit to the Davis clan.

[John McKechnie]

Rodger- Bruce and I were talking to you sunday morning. Great looking car, excellent techs-still current and looked and sounded like it couldnt wait to run again. A massive congratulations for getting it going in a short time frame , fronting and running to the end of the day.

[Rod Grimwood]

Am i right in thinking this thing was built from hannu Mikkola merc rally car that ran in NZ.

PM sent rod

Just found article on Merc build and will download and post as much info as can. Appears car was not ex rally car and car is actually mainly space frame with moulded body (plural) as developed.
Bit to scan and get ready

[nigel watts]

Great photos Richy

[rogered]

Hi John
Thanks for that , glad you both took the time to stop by and have a chat

[Steve Holmes]

Well done George...and the other owners that made it to the track with their cars.

Some interesting cars thats for sure.
Like that front end....pretty good for the 80's
Out of interest what powers the Merc?

A small block Chevy I think Ellis. Definitely not the twin-turbo set-up it had in the early/mid 80s though.

[Brett Davy]

Hi George
That was an excellent start to your season and a lot of hard work on your and your teams part to be there for our Auckland Car Club opening round at Hampton Downs. The "siddy" sounded awesome and you should be proud of the achievement.
I have had nothing but good reports about the whole day (with the exception of HD only supplying one food caravan??) and we apologize about not being able to get the car around at lunchtime for some parade laps. I did try for you but met with some resistance in the office as it wasn't permissible with permit that we had from MSNZ and the fact that you had oil issues...you know what it's like to get stuff past them. Great to have George Jnr and Brittany back at the track and well done to Jnr for winning the Ian Bean memorial trophy - his car was impressive all day!!
Keep up the good work and please let me know if we can be of assistance in any way and on behalf of the Auckland Car Club many thanks for your efforts and keep up the good work!!

[225sloper]

Was a excellent day,good number of spectators,weather held off,good classes with some neat cars.A great start to Historic Sports Sedans.Here are a few shots i took on the day.212792128021281212822128321284

[225sloper]

212852128621287212882128921290

[225sloper]

2129121292212932129421295

[Steve Holmes]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5471/9708553714_082f6db782_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708553714/)
IMG_5362 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/snoozinrichy/9708553714/) by SnoozinRichy (http://www.flickr.com/people/snoozinrichy/), on Flickr



This is a good looking car Roger, when did you build it?

[George Sheweiry]

Wow great Photos sloper and snoozin, I don't know whether you guys realize just how important your fantastic photos are at documenting our motoracing heritage and some of the shots you guys get I just don't know how you do it! but I can tell you they are most appreciated here, Thank you very much.

[Rod Grimwood]

This Torana build/history could make a pretty good read. Roger and The family fronted early 80s with car, and every time you saw it something new had happened and it was qiucker. They put some work in to it over the years.

[CUSTAXIE50]

IMPORTANT MEETING at the Auckland car club rooms this coming Saturday the 14th of September 10am to finalise a set of rules for the new Historic Sports Sedans series. So if you want to have a say you need to be there. I would suggest you read the comments about which way the class should go that have been offered on this thread and talk with other interested parties BEFORE THE DAY!! For instance. Should the cut off date for cars be 1986 to make sure all the earlier lotus twin cams arent made uncompetetive by the Cosworth Sierra motor. Should we allow only replicas of NZ cars no longer around or include overseas types, and a host of other problems. If you cant make it then send me an email with your preferences and ideas because we want to include everyone and try to get it right. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz Remember its your class so have a say!! Looks like a great day had by one and all who turned up,well the merc is not a nz car so let them all in.Why not just let those who would like to race something build a car that fits in with the rules that you have set out for this class-no jap engines allowed.

[Oldfart]

Looks like a great day had by one and all who turned up,well the merc is not a nz car so let them all in.Why not just let those who would like to race something build a car that fits in with the rules that you have set out for this class-no jap engines allowed.
Some of the cars had Jap engines in the day! Benbrooks' Lancer rotary for one.

[John McKechnie]

In post #17, George put up a list which he had come up with, which included Benbrooks, also Findlays Datsun and Tony Rutherfords RX2. That answers any question of jap inclusion. All final details will be ironed out this Saturday morning according to an earlier George post.

[Rod Grimwood]

Japers are in as they were back then (bugger) Jigger and that litle Datsun coupe was hard to run with let alone beat in 0-2000 class, was glad when he got the Commode and beat up the big boys.

[duncan fox]

What powers the Merc ? yes that is a question that has been bandied around. I will lay money on it that its not a set of period 292 heads

George,
Rogers Merc is Australian Sports Sedans compliant as an injected 6 litre Chev, he also said he'd be more than happy to change it back to its fire belching 1000hp twin turbo 292 cylinder heads setup if you want......:) :)
Engine aside thats just one pure racecar,mid engine ,transaxle ,tube frame, no visability ,dont know how Rodg sees the apex over the engine , oh and he pedals big horsepower cars real well to boot.
I enjoyed the cars ,was good to finally see your Mustang in colors other than rust in rotton row, which ones next? Shame Grahame Addis couldnt make it he tried real hard but just too many little jobs and not enough time..
A full field will look spectacular, possibly even better than the 5000's.......................

[Jizim]

Looking at photo Roger, she still goes ok. Great you got to have a squirt. still one of my favourite cars from years gone by. Remember when you first turned up and she was fairly standard with a v8 put in, then she grew some guards and the motor sounded a bit different, then the suspension got some attention and bigger wheels, then some major body work, more trick suspension especially back then, and on she grew into a real handy Sports Sedan. Its a credit to the Davis clan.

Sorry I didn't get the time to come over and chat Roger...bloody great effort you guys.....and I just love this Torana and echo what the others say....full credit Team...full credit. Shame the other didn't turn up although I did hear it wasn't through not trying. Pity you had to leave early Rod...you maybe could be the bar b que man at the next outing? Oh AND I will try organise you some preferrential parking of your own!! Ha ha ha top stuff mate. Regards, Tony Rutherford.

[Rod Grimwood]

That parking is pretty precious Tony, will come fully armed next time.

[John McKechnie]

IMPORTANT MEETING at the Auckland car club rooms this coming Saturday the 14th of September 10am to finalise a set of rules for the new Historic Sports Sedans series. So if you want to have a say you need to be there. I would suggest you read the comments about which way the class should go that have been offered on this thread and talk with other interested parties BEFORE THE DAY!! For instance. Should the cut off date for cars be 1986 to make sure all the earlier lotus twin cams arent made uncompetetive by the Cosworth Sierra motor. Should we allow only replicas of NZ cars no longer around or include overseas types, and a host of other problems. If you cant make it then send me an email with your preferences and ideas because we want to include everyone and try to get it right. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz Remember its your class so have a say!!

Is the tyre type and wheel type been discussed enough ?
Can tyres be used if they dont give an advantage?
Such as the Goodyears in HMC running with what is to be used here?

[rogered]

Sorry I didn't get the time to come over and chat Roger...bloody great effort you guys.....and I just love this Torana and echo what the others say....full credit Team...full credit. Shame the other didn't turn up although I did hear it wasn't through not trying. Pity you had to leave early Rod...you maybe could be the bar b que man at the next outing? Oh AND I will try organise you some preferrential parking of your own!! Ha ha ha top stuff mate. Regards, Tony Rutherford.

Thanks Tony, appricate that. just good to have a punt around again.
Back again this weekend, must have been well behaved as im allowed a run in my dads car.:)

[rogered]

Is the tyre type and wheel type been discussed enough ?
Can tyres be used if they dont give an advantage?
Such as the Goodyears in HMC running with what is to be used here?
pm sent

[225sloper]

Wow great Photos sloper and snoozin, I don't know whether you guys realize just how important your fantastic photos are at documenting our motoracing heritage and some of the shots you guys get I just don't know how you do it! but I can tell you they are most appreciated here, Thank you very much.
No worries guys i love taken racecar photos and as far as im concerned they have to be shared,cant see the point of just looking at it myself.. . . Do you guys a deal. . you guys keep racing and i will keep taken photos. . .YEE HA

[John McKechnie]

Work commitments prevent me from attending the meeting tomorrow unfortunately.
I have sent George an email with a suggestion on tyre types in line with #396

[Snoozin]

No worries guys i love taken racecar photos and as far as im concerned they have to be shared,cant see the point of just looking at it myself.. . . Do you guys a deal. . you guys keep racing and i will keep taken photos. . .YEE HA

Amen! That's my philosophy too... would I have spoken/seen you trackside at all I wonder?

[kiwi285]

That's the main reason for taking photos - to remind us of a great day and to allow people who weren't fortunate enough to be there to see what they missed.

Yes I agree, it would be good to catch up with other RS members as looking at the photos I am sure I would have walked past several without knowing who they were. How do we arrange this ?

Mike

[John McKechnie]

Mike- as I complimented Bil Pottinger in his thread, if it wasnt for you gifted guys out there with the cameras, there would be no history to bring the cars alive, or enjoyment here. I too would love to meet the other guys who snap the pix. Solution- introduce and shake hands. I didnt even know Rogered was Rodger Davis till Tuesday after racing, yet we spoke for 20 minutes Sunday morning.

[Grant Ellwood]

II didnt even know Rogered was Rodger Davis till Tuesday after racing, yet we spoke for 20 minutes Sunday morning.[/QUOTE]

Which is why it is the best reason for using your real name when posting on this site!

[225sloper]

Amen! That's my philosophy too... would I have spoken/seen you trackside at all I wonder?

I did speak to a couple of photographers during the day,i think next time i will just mention The Roaring Season and take it from there.

[Shoreboy57]

IMPORTANT MEETING at the Auckland car club rooms this coming Saturday the 14th of September 10am to finalise a set of rules for the new Historic Sports Sedans series. So if you want to have a say you need to be there. I would suggest you read the comments about which way the class should go that have been offered on this thread and talk with other interested parties BEFORE THE DAY!! For instance. Should the cut off date for cars be 1986 to make sure all the earlier lotus twin cams arent made uncompetetive by the Cosworth Sierra motor. Should we allow only replicas of NZ cars no longer around or include overseas types, and a host of other problems. If you cant make it then send me an email with your preferences and ideas because we want to include everyone and try to get it right. sheweiry@slingshot.co.nz Remember its your class so have a say!!

George - any update on the rules meeting?

[George Sheweiry]

Yes we had our meeting at the ACC and basically the rules are pretty much as discussed on here so I am just re writing the original guide set of rules that I had already done and just adding and deleting the odd bits that were changed. What I can tell you is that it will be known as the "New Zealand Historic Sports Sedans" (NZHSS) for NZ sports sedans, OSCA and Allcomers from 1962/1988 and that all competing cars will need a COD to run. That in itself will make sure that the cars are period correct. But please bare with me while I sort the changes and I need to get approval to print from the 2 other committee members, Graeme Addis and Dennis Running. George.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Yes we had our meeting at the ACC and basically the rules are pretty much as discussed on here so I am just re writing the original guide set of rules that I had already done and just adding and deleting the odd bits that were changed. What I can tell you is that it will be known as the "New Zealand Historic Sports Sedans" (NZHSS) for NZ sports sedans, OSCA and Allcomers from 1962/1988 and that all competing cars will need a COD to run. That in itself will make sure that the cars are period correct. But please bare with me while I sort the changes and I need to get approval to print from the 2 other committee members, Graeme Addis and Dennis Running. George. So where does custaxie 2 fit in.

[George Sheweiry]

Well all he has to do is get a COD and he can run. The COD takes about 5 weeks and you have to supply magazine articles of the car that shows as much as possible of how it was built and the general layout, also testimonials from people of repute from the time. Engine type, gearbox type whether they have offset, the size of the brakes and what type of drums or calipers the wheels the diff and all of the bits from the original build. Ron Mcmillan came and checked out my roll cage which isn't up to the latest specs, so I could only have it approved for schedule AA which means I cant run with the latest Trans ams!! Then you have to take 2 photographs of everything including the outside of the car and send it all off with you completed forms (that you can get off the manz site) down to Wellington. Yes it is a bit of work getting all that together but then you have proper categorized proof or your valuable car, and for us running the class if ever there is a dispute over something in a particular car like for instance whether or not it had Jag brakes or the latest 6 pot calipers we can refer to the COD to see what it should have. Now doesn't that just make it so easy (and period correct!!) What do ya think of that Custaxie50?

[George Sheweiry]

To sum it up Custaxie50 the class is for NZ sports sedans, osca and allcomers that have CODs and ran from 1962 to 1988. So the Custaxie 2 is an allcomer it is from 62 to 88 and he just needs a COD (that will have replica written on it) that describes the car as Robbie built it, and of course it must be as Robbie built it, except of course for the cage which is just a safety thing that we don't have a problem with that. Then Whoolah all of a sudden a great replica of one of our most loved cars has a place to run. I just love it when a plan comes together!!

[CUSTAXIE50]

To sum it up Custaxie50 the class is for NZ sports sedans, osca and allcomers that have CODs and ran from 1962 to 1988. So the Custaxie 2 is an allcomer it is from 62 to 88 and he just needs a COD (that will have replica written on it) that describes the car as Robbie built it, and of course it must be as Robbie built it, except of course for the cage which is just a safety thing that we don't have a problem with that. Then Whoolah all of a sudden a great replica of one of our most loved cars has a place to run. I just love it when a plan comes together!! The time has come George for the boys from Coventry motors to have there say on how this car was built in 1966 dont you think.

[George Sheweiry]

Well Custaxie50 its too late. We can all see your passion for this car, especially by your handle and your earlier experiences with it. But the problem is it has already been built and built by the guy that raced it. Think about it, if another one was built, no matter how close to the original one when compared between the two of them this one would come out as the favorite for the sheer fact that it was built by our boy Robbie. We all know by now it is not bolt for bolt, rivet for rivet exactly the same as the original, but for the vast majority especially on this site the differences are just not big enough! As a racer my concern would be that its performance had been improved, but it hasn't. Its not a perfect world but just look on here what has been written. The fact that it was built by Robbie and that the differences are not enough in the vast majority's eyes and the fact that we now have a close enough replica of what we all loved and thought was such a great car is enough. the only travesty here is that it has now been changed from the car that Robbie built. It seems to be lost to its new owner that people don't care if it cant keep up with the latest Trans am car. They want to see it for how it was! A historic race car cant be a historic race car with the latest brakes or whatever. We applaud your passion Custaxie50 but we have a replacement car and it needs to be left as built by Robbie and brought out for all the fans to see, after all what is the point of having a replica if its never going to be seen.

[John McKechnie]

+1

[Rod Grimwood]

+1


Me 2

Be great to see the car out there. surely not to much to put brakes back how they were. I have not seen any sheep farms available for winners, so all just get used to those nice chocie fish and jelly beans (or maybe Maceys yummies)

[Oldfart]

Could not have been expressed better George.

[Shoreboy57]

Could not have been expressed better George.

Indeed

[CUSTAXIE50]

Well Custaxie50 its too late. We can all see your passion for this car, especially by your handle and your earlier experiences with it. But the problem is it has already been built and built by the guy that raced it. Think about it, if another one was built, no matter how close to the original one when compared between the two of them this one would come out as the favorite for the sheer fact that it was built by our boy Robbie. We all know by now it is not bolt for bolt, rivet for rivet exactly the same as the original, but for the vast majority especially on this site the differences are just not big enough! As a racer my concern would be that its performance had been improved, but it hasn't. Its not a perfect world but just look on here what has been written. The fact that it was built by Robbie and that the differences are not enough in the vast majority's eyes and the fact that we now have a close enough replica of what we all loved and thought was such a great car is enough. the only travesty here is that it has now been changed from the car that Robbie built. It seems to be lost to its new owner that people don't care if it cant keep up with the latest Trans am car. They want to see it for how it was! A historic race car cant be a historic race car with the latest brakes or whatever. We applaud your passion Custaxie50 but we have a replacement car and it needs to be left as built by Robbie and brought out for all the fans to see, after all what is the point of having a replica if its never going to be seen. We could go on all day about this car George,say someone built up Robbies fairlane that he raced,and later on Robbie turned up with one he had built up,how would we get on about having this car out there George.

[John McKechnie]

As George said-COD......#409 -Well all he has to do is get a COD and he can run.

[CUSTAXIE50]

As George said-COD......#409 -Well all he has to do is get a COD and he can run. Which car are you talking about the custaxie or the fairlane.

[Steve Holmes]

The Fairlane no longer exists.

[CUSTAXIE50]

The Fairlane no longer exists. Yes i know the fairlane no longer exists its in the same boat as the original custaxie,i was just putting a view across if someone built up a fairlane and Robbie came along with one with his name on it where would the first build stand.

[Jac Mac]

This is where the COD becomes a can of worms...for instance, lets say I decided to build a copy of the Fairlane for example, just because I felt like it. To ensure that I was 'first' I would have to apply for the COD in advance ( if indeed that is possible ). Then MSNZ would at least be aware of my intentions. OR what if Robbie or the original owner/builder was to 'hear' of that & decide to do so themselves, & were able to do so at a pace faster than I, who gets priority then?

I could use the same scenario on my old cars where I know that some later parts have been used, doesnt worry me a bit, but others that look at it often comment how different it is now from when it raced in its time, but its got a COD, so who is wrong?

As I said, its all a big can of worms & only a revenue gathering exercise for MSNZ, or a conspired value increase tool for those that insist on having it.

[928]

well i suppose you could start your own series as seems to happen just for you and custaxie and copies

[CUSTAXIE50]

This is where the COD becomes a can of worms...for instance, lets say I decided to build a copy of the Fairlane for example, just because I felt like it. To ensure that I was 'first' I would have to apply for the COD in advance ( if indeed that is possible ). Then MSNZ would at least be aware of my intentions. OR what if Robbie or the original owner/builder was to 'hear' of that & decide to do so themselves, & were able to do so at a pace faster than I, who gets priority then?

I could use the same scenario on my old cars where I know that some later parts have been used, doesnt worry me a bit, but others that look at it often comment how different it is now from when it raced in its time, but its got a COD, so who is wrong?

As I said, its all a big can of worms & only a revenue gathering exercise for MSNZ, or a conspired value increase tool for those that insist on having it. I would say if you got all the paper work and the bull shit that may come with this to them first, it would go to you they may say you have a set time to do this.

[Rod Grimwood]

I would say if you got all the paper work and the bull shit that may come with this to them first, it would go to you they may say you have a set time to do this.

We are wandering of in tangents gents. There is enough groups/class's that we can all go and have a bit of fun. Get the paper work that's needed (not really agreed as needed, but this has been going on for years with MSNZ) get the car to specs, (this sounds easy with what I can figure, brakes) and get out and have some fun driving it and give the motorsport public something to watch and appreciate.
They sure loved the few that were at Hampton the other week. I heard some young fellows who were looking at the cars mention to the tune of, "these are awesome mean machines" when the boys went out to play. That's what its about, fun for you and the people.

I loved watching and listening to the 'Custaxie' at Hampton a couple of years back, it was awesome, as the song says 'History repeats'

[Shoreboy57]

We are wandering of in tangents gents. There is enough groups/class's that we can all go and have a bit of fun. Get the paper work that's needed (not really agreed as needed, but this has been going on for years with MSNZ) get the car to specs, (this sounds easy with what I can figure, brakes) and get out and have some fun driving it and give the motorsport public something to watch and appreciate.
They sure loved the few that were at Hampton the other week. I heard some young fellows who were looking at the cars mention to the tune of, "these are awesome mean machines" when the boys went out to play. That's what its about, fun for you and the people.

I loved watching and listening to the 'Custaxie' at Hampton a couple of years back, it was awesome, as the song says 'History repeats'

Couldn't agree more Rod, a shame to see thread on this exciting new series at risk of being hijacked by discussion that has had more than enough oxygen. After all George's efforts and first up ACC meet, I would much rather be talking of how the class can grow, encouraging & supporting.Glass is more than half full thanks to George and friends.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Couldn't agree more Rod, a shame to see thread on this exciting new series at risk of being hijacked by discussion that has had more than enough oxygen. After all George's efforts and first up ACC meet, I would much rather be talking of how the class can grow, encouraging & supporting.Glass is more than half full thanks to George and friends. You dont know what you are talking about,no one is hijacking anything.Go and have a look at what george put up #417,Jac Mac was only asking if he was first to start a build thats all.I take my hat off to what George and others have done to get this new class up and running and wish them all the best.

[George Sheweiry]

well guys perhaps I can waylay a few of your concerns here. Anyone who wants to run in NZHSS will need to obtain a set of our rules before they do anything. They will then see all the requirements not just the COD for vehicles to be able to run in the class. CODs for this class will have to be based on a period between 62 & 88 that the vehicle was raced in. Then once the COD is obtained it and the car will be checked by the 3 old wise men on the committee (who have been around a year or 3) who will use phrases you don't often hear nowdays like "common sense" and "If its fair" and so if it all adds up they will be invited to join the club and participate in the racing. So Basically I guess you guys are going to have to have a little faith in us, but to be fair we haven't done too bad so far. So get your cars, genuine or reps to the track and have some fun with all the rest of us because its just going to be great!!!

[Jac Mac]

George, you have explained away my concerns much better than I was able to try in my post, I was concerned that the COD was going to become the governing guideline so to speak. But with a system like the 3 wise men things should be much clearer to all. Only other point I can see is the possibility of several versions of the same car- for example multiple DJR Mustangs as at your first meeting( yes I realise they were not all competing)- but will that type of multiples of any one car be allowed to continue to compete in the future.

[Jizim]

Hey Biscuit..... Come over and look at my new project...And pick up your Sidchrome badge for your Overalls. Will make a pot of tea. Catch up on some goss and solve the worries of the world......Hurry! Regards, Tony Rutherford.

[Rod Grimwood]

Pot of tea, yea right. You got any TUI badges as well

[George Sheweiry]

Well Jac Mac with the example of the 2 DJR mustangs if you look back to the photo of the JPS car back in Aus you will see the white car there as well because he had 2, so there is only 1 replica of each car but yes there will only be allowed 1 replica of any car and that will be on a first come basis. Being a Ford nut I would love to see a rep of the Clyde Collins Cortina, Boss 302 engine and all !!!

[George Sheweiry]

By the way, anybody planning a replica to run in NZHSS needs to get in touch with us, the manz COD dept and put it on this forum to make sure there aren't any double ups and to help clarify the build. Common sense really! whoops there's that saying again, Doubt if any Twistys would know what it means. lol

[CUSTAXIE50]

Well Jac Mac with the example of the 2 DJR mustangs if you look back to the photo of the JPS car back in Aus you will see the white car there as well because he had 2, so there is only 1 replica of each car but yes there will only be allowed 1 replica of any car and that will be on a first come basis. Being a Ford nut I would love to see a rep of the Clyde Collins Cortina, Boss 302 engine and all !!! What about Robert Bartleys mk3 cortina,i understand it is in someones shed anyone know.

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, I'm surprised the Bartley Cortina has survived? Thats good to know. Does Robert Bartley still own it?

[Steve Holmes]

Well Jac Mac with the example of the 2 DJR mustangs if you look back to the photo of the JPS car back in Aus you will see the white car there as well because he had 2, so there is only 1 replica of each car but yes there will only be allowed 1 replica of any car and that will be on a first come basis. Being a Ford nut I would love to see a rep of the Clyde Collins Cortina, Boss 302 engine and all !!!

I'd heard a few years ago Clyde and his son were building a replica of this car, but I'm not sure how far it progressed, and if its still happening.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Wow, I'm surprised the Bartley Cortina has survived? Thats good to know. Does Robert Bartley still own it? Thinking back it may have been Robert Bartley himself who said somewhere on the net that it is still around and in someones shed.Bruce Robert from Palmy also raced this car at one time,i will go and ask him who he sold the car too, he may know where it is today. I did see a photo of the car sometime back with the left back of the car pushed right in may be still like that today, will see what i can come up with and get back.

[camaroman slp]

Clyde Collins replica i think there is a very good replica being built by the owner of Franklin boat builders who owns and races the Fordina that is black that Clyde Collins built some years back.I have seen a photo of the car in the build and all looks very good.

[George Sheweiry]

It is with regret that with only 3 entries (George Sheweiry, Dennis Running, Roger Davis) for Pukekohe for NZHSS that we have canned the 2nd round of the new series. Graham Addis had concerns over the new barriers siting that if his car was to come off it would be totaled by the new barriers and also didnt think it would be below pukes draconian noise levels, Robert Jack also after being fined for 2 db over was not going to go back. A few days after the inaugural race meeting at HD I emailed the 18 other people who said they wouldn't be at the first meeting but would be running at the next or as soon as they could and asked them if they would be at round 2. I got 2 replies both saying they were busy on that day. Others I talked to also indicated that part of the reason they wer'nt running was because of the db limit that they seem to be able to pass at HD but not at puke and also the barriers and the chicane. Oh dear Puke, how does a race track survive without race cars?? So while I regret that people who wanted the new class don't seem to be bothered to use it. I feel I need to point out that my promise to get these cars a class up and running and to have the required number of cars for the first round was achieved and that was important to me as I am a man of my word. It is up to the others who gave me their word, to get their cars to the track and keep this going!! It would be sad after the effort that was put in for it to fall over. I have never been able to understand why people just casually agree to do things that they have no intention of doing. Disappointing really. George.

[Grant Ellwood]

George, you are just at the beginning of great class revival, all credit to you. When TransAm died up here in USA in the 70s the cars seemed to slip away into obscurity but now we are seeing good fields hacking a track again at vintage events.

[Rod Grimwood]

Wait For HD again George, i believe the boys will start turning up and understand why some will not run at Puke anymore. They have stuffed the track and turned it into a concrete wrecking machine. The noise will always be bigger (better) between 2 lines of concrete.

Never promised/committed but things are happening (slowly) but happening. Only to fill the field and wait for rain. Lotto and will be there next week.

Cheers George, on the day it will happen.

[Shoreboy57]

Sorry to hear this George. Sad that Puke has, on multiple fronts discouraged some to race 3, but totally understandable. Shows why HD remains so damned important for motorsport.

You've seen the passion on the Roaring Season for NZHSS and it was there for round 1 at HD. I don't believe that has gone. Are there opportunities for the RS community to help you get this class off the ground?

[George Sheweiry]

Well Shoreboy57 I guess if any body on RS knows any of the people on the previous lists I put up on here then perhaps they could put a rocket under them, but then I fail to see how they couldn't even get 1 car to the track when I got "3" and also helped my son and daughter with their cars. Anyway too late for R2 but if we don't get a 10 car field or larger for R3 then f---em I have a car for every V8 class running out there so I will just put my efforts into that. This bullshit wont interfere with my racing and they can just play with whatever it is they are playing with at the moment!!!

[CUSTAXIE50]

Well Shoreboy57 I guess if any body on RS knows any of the people on the previous lists I put up on here then perhaps they could put a rocket under them, but then I fail to see how they couldn't even get 1 car to the track when I got "3" and also helped my son and daughter with their cars. Anyway too late for R2 but if we don't get a 10 car field or larger for R3 then f---em I have a car for every V8 class running out there so I will just put my efforts into that. This bullshit wont interfere with my racing and they can just play with whatever it is they are playing with at the moment!!! Keep the faith George those bastards may still have that cup over there at this time,but i still have faith the boys will get it next time so keep the faith boy.I understand why the hell would anyone want to put there car around that track that PUKE is today.

[John McKechnie]

I have an update from Barry Algie, whom as most know does not have a computer, so I pass on info to you all.
The Monaro was missing part of the floor , right from day one. This piece goes at the back of the floor and goes up steeply toward the boot area. ,Goes on the tunnel and extends two feet to the left and to the right. I allready gave him the front of a donor to get his tow ute going, and I had this piece attached on another donor body laying around. he has been meaning to get this piece for a long time,, Told him I was cleaning up and throwing all this stuff out on Monday, so he came around this afternoon with hack saw, , hammer and chisel.( He also has finally got his road car going). Took about 2 hours but he now has it and can finally finish the floor. Still waiting for his tyres to arrive. Needs $900 for a radiator, $400 for a battery ( aeroplane one). The front fibreglass clip was buggered from sitting in the weather for 20 years and needed major work. He removed the offending upper piece, took a fibre glass copy of a Monaro one then glassed that into place. Not a slacker, just takes time to get there. Making no promises or commitments, just will be there when its ready, as its been a long time off duty.

[bob homewood]

A bit like myself John ,when I get there I will get there ,it all takes time ,it all takes money ,a few years ago it was the only thing I had to worry about ,but not these days ,I'm not a slacker either

[John McKechnie]

Good on yer Bob, you dont need to give any explanation, youve earned your wings many times over.
I will be naughty here- I wished Barry a very Happy Birthday- as it was on Thursday.
And no, birthday prezzies dont extend to radiators or aeroplane batteries.

[Grant Sprague]

You only need to look at a tractor parked under a tree [tyrs,brakes,hoses,pipe,radiators,clutches , sticky valves , stale fuel , rusted pumps, chassis & body rust. mind you your cars might be in a shed , but time & nature take a toll, I am not making excuses here for any one .
You all remember when 20 or 30 yrs ago you had fire in yr belly most of you won lots of races even championships , we dream of the glory days still.
But on a better note the ones here that do have the time & $$$$$ to restore their cars & get them out there will be very cool to see, & yes George good on you for doing what you are doing , you might just pull it off.
As for Puke, I still remember after a race I lined my car up for my trailor did a 1/5 spin to straighten it up on grass , a short grey haired guy [ex hitler ] from a past life dragged me up the com box , I thought I had committed murder or close to it , an other time my car was 2 inches over the line for a scratch race after winning two more short people with badges decided to dismantle yet an other point lead , this only ever happened there , same people same place., other tracks they would just push you back a little , but these people just keep pushing us away & some

[Jac Mac]

Well Jac Mac with the example of the 2 DJR mustangs if you look back to the photo of the JPS car back in Aus you will see the white car there as well because he had 2, so there is only 1 replica of each car but yes there will only be allowed 1 replica of any car and that will be on a first come basis. Being a Ford nut I would love to see a rep of the Clyde Collins Cortina, Boss 302 engine and all !!!
Sorry for late reply George, been away from PC for a few days.... gotcha on the single replica rule clarafication.. not really for me , but others who might wish to do so..
On that note for anyone doing a replica of Clyde Collins Cortina, It never had a full Boss 302 engine that I am aware of, only a Boss Block with Windsor heads & IIRC stroked to 326 cu in ( pretty sure that motor was ex Red Dawson). That motor went to Frank Ryan/Bryan Taylor for the Capri Build. Clyde then fitted the SB Chev and then sold to John Beattie? from ChCh who then sold it to Bruce Bellis who ultimately fitted the Weslake 4v head Chev ( See info on this motor detailed elswhere by Paul Kirk). IIRC during John Beatties ownership the car was maintained by Alec Dickie via A(Alec) J(John) Automotive. Hope I have that right, Paul will no doubt correct me if he reads this!

[Gary Goulding]

From my experience is Australia, don't make it to anal about what had what on it in what bloody year.
You will end up like us over here. Only about 4 cars logged book real historic Group U Sports Sedans in the entire country.
Blokes just give up because people want to go on with crap about what went were.
Just get them on the track as we over here have hardly any on the track.
I have one sitting in the shed & have to race it in normal races at the moment.
Just my thoughts.
Gary Goulding


Without wanting to bombard you with stuff you probably don't want to have to worry about at this early stage George, one of the issues you may find with Historic Sports Sedans is that one car will have raced for several seasons, being updated as it went. This is fairly unique to Sports Sedan type vehicles, as they could be constantly chopped and changed around to keep pace, unlike other categories. So depending on how anal you want to be about the cars being period correct, you might want to consider owners pin-point a period in their cars history, and present it to that point in time. This is what the Historic Australian Group C and A touring car category does. They require the cars be presented, both mechanically and aesthetically to a specific year, and even a specific race if possible.

A good case in point is the Wayne Huxford V8 Capri. That car first appeared in 1979, fitted with a 5 litre Morand Chevy from David Oxtons Begg F5000, full floor pan, and relatively mild flares. It was continuously developed throughout the 1980s and kept being updated until about 1997, to keep pace with the new Trans-Am tube-frame cars that were predominant by that stage. By 1997, about the only thing left from the car that debuted in 1979 was the roof! Therefore, if you have a cut-off date as per your earlier post of 1980, then Huxfords Capri would fit, because it first raced in 1979. But on the other hand, only the roof remains from the car as it raced in 1979.

[Steve Holmes]

Yes I agree Gary, there is definitely a fear when creating these sorts of classes to go too far in either direction, rather than achieving a happy medium. While expecting cars to be 100% as they were in a specific year is taking things too far, on the other hand I wouldn't want to see a car that was continuously developed for another 10 years beyond the cut-off date be allowed to race in its more modern guise. I'd rather it was returned, in large, to an earlier period in its history that fits within the cut-off date.

[Jizim]

It is with regret that with only 3 entries (George Sheweiry, Dennis Running, Roger Davis) for Pukekohe for NZHSS that we have canned the 2nd round of the new series. Graham Addis had concerns over the new barriers siting that if his car was to come off it would be totaled by the new barriers and also didnt think it would be below pukes draconian noise levels, Robert Jack also after being fined for 2 db over was not going to go back. A few days after the inaugural race meeting at HD I emailed the 18 other people who said they wouldn't be at the first meeting but would be running at the next or as soon as they could and asked them if they would be at round 2. I got 2 replies both saying they were busy on that day. Others I talked to also indicated that part of the reason they wer'nt running was because of the db limit that they seem to be able to pass at HD but not at puke and also the barriers and the chicane. Oh dear Puke, how does a race track survive without race cars?? So while I regret that people who wanted the new class don't seem to be bothered to use it. I feel I need to point out that my promise to get these cars a class up and running and to have the required number of cars for the first round was achieved and that was important to me as I am a man of my word. It is up to the others who gave me their word, to get their cars to the track and keep this going!! It would be sad after the effort that was put in for it to fall over. I have never been able to understand why people just casually agree to do things that they have no intention of doing. Disappointing really. George.

Damn I hate reading this George...after you put your heart and soul into it.......Personally can't think why people are so scared of Puke in its new form after all I cant remember any of the drivers with those concerns ever coming off and hitting the banks of "Rothmans" as we knew it....(and I think this is the only area that would be of concern?) I didn't think by what I have read through here that all the drivers would be racing 10/10ths. The track is not any narrower than it was..in fact turn one is wider. I have done quite a few laps now of the new set up and hey once you know where to turn into the new part it's sweet..( although in saying that I did love the long back straight beforehand). Word has it that there is banter of moving two sets of tyres.... (yup thats all)...for a couple of meetings a year and not including the new turns 5, 6 and 7. Now I will wait with baited breath and see who turns up for your 3rd meeting at Hampton and see whether it really was a Puke problem or not. Just saying....Stick with it George..you got too many fans now mate. Sincerely, Tony Rutherford.

[George Sheweiry]

Hey thanks guys for the kind comments but the real losers here are all those neat old cars and the enthusiasts who remember them and were looking forward to seeing them. As I said it doesn't make any difference to my racing as I will be running my Trans am Camaro in modified this weekend but you would have thought those with cars for NZHSS would have taken advantage of someone who would stick their neck out for them. Dilligaf seems to pop into mind.lol

[George Sheweiry]

Got a phone call the other night from a very excited Graeme Parkes. He has tracked down the Marina and intends to do a full restoration of the beast. He said it is minus motor and box. I dont know what engine bits he has to rebuild it with but I think it was powered by a P76 V8 so if anyone knows of any bits for these lying about it might pay to drop him a line. Great to see an original car back with its original pilot !!

[George Sheweiry]

So I have notified all of the owners of Sports Sedans that I have been in contact with since getting this deal up and running that there are 6 of us that would like to run (Graeme Addis, Roger Davis, Dennis Running Adriane Dobbe, Robert Jack and myself ) at the shceduled round 3 at Hampton Downs November 10th and if anyone will be entering could they let me know as soon as possible because a week out from the event I would have to look at whether we had the 10 cars required as to whether or not we can the round. Unfortunately I have heard a rumor that another class is happy to take over our spots for the rest of the season if we cant get our stuff together by this round which would be a shame but then again I guess that is to be expected. I have to say that it was great to have a good run in a race car again at Puke last weekend as I haven't really done any circuit racing for about 2 years as I have been so busy (even if it was on 10 year old slicks haha)

[CUSTAXIE50]

So I have notified all of the owners of Sports Sedans that I have been in contact with since getting this deal up and running that there are 6 of us that would like to run (Graeme Addis, Roger Davis, Dennis Running Adriane Dobbe, Robert Jack and myself ) at the shceduled round 3 at Hampton Downs November 10th and if anyone will be entering could they let me know as soon as possible because a week out from the event I would have to look at whether we had the 10 cars required as to whether or not we can the round. Unfortunately I have heard a rumor that another class is happy to take over our spots for the rest of the season if we cant get our stuff together by this round which would be a shame but then again I guess that is to be expected. I have to say that it was great to have a good run in a race car again at Puke last weekend as I haven't really done any circuit racing for about 2 years as I have been so busy (even if it was on 10 year old slicks haha) Well George no one can say you are an SBW, when you give your word you give it, and do what you say you are going to do.So after all the hard work you and others have put in to getting this up and running,there is another class in the back ground happy to move in and take over bastards.Come on boys get your shit together i know the cost to get some cars up and running again can be on the high side and some may take some time to get some track time,bring them along on the day they are just as good to see in the pits as they are out on the track.What about the Custaxie George is the car going to have a run in your class or not,would be good to see it out there.

[George Sheweiry]

Thanks for that Custaxie50 , my integrity is important to me. As for the others waiting to take our place well they are just guys who want to race their cars and after all its not just a god given right to be able to just form a class and expect to be able to race them when and where you like in fact its rather difficult and you have to have some good credibility to be accepted. Having already formed Production Muscle cars 15 yrs ago, and a road race series before that, and of course having been on the ACC executive gave me a small advantage. There are in fact several other groups who would like their own stand alone series. But anyway enough of that we still are the front vying class and the fat lady hasn't sung yet!! In fact I have had an email from John Dennehy who has the ex Halliday TC Escort and needs some gearbox bits to get him to the track. Is there anyone out there who can help him as that is the only thing stopping him from running at the next round, and that of course would make it 7 cars for the round. So if anyone can help please get in touch.

[George Sheweiry]

John Dennehy is looking for genuine ZF parts, he realizes a lot of people are re engineering the internals of these boxes but he doesn't want to compromise the authenticity of his collectible car so if anyone out there has some parts or a whole box then please let us know

[Frosty5]

Very disappointed to read the above. But I guess you can lead a horse to water........... I agree that George needs an extreme vote of thanks for putting his time, effort and money into this project only to see it languish for whatever reasons. The sight of those thunderous machines was indeed a sight to behold and I for one am chuffed that at least we saw some of them doing what they do best. The phoenix could yet rise again and while I don't have a race car I would be one of the first to go and watch. George, you gave it your best shot and I am sure there are members in TRS that are extremely grateful for your efforts. Many thanks and all the best.
Regards Dave Graham

[Oldfart]

That is beyond sad. I am not one of the people with an eligible car, but this was one of the most exciting classes to be promulgated. As is normal (it would appear) you get a lot of "promises" and it is very hard to walk the line between optimism and cynical. I suspect I will be likely to go the same place with our VCC class, but remain hopeful.
George, there are a whole heap of people who owe you a lot of thanks for trying.

[Kiwiboss]

No No George, you don't need to sign out yet, have Manfield this weekend and i'll give you a call next week(or earlier if I get a chance) i have some ideas and wanta see this happen!!

Dale M

[ERC]

Don't give up George, as that class is/was the missing link that many of us deem essential for classic motorsport. It offers an opportunity to run race cars as opposed to "road" cars on Dot tyres.

Don't get too despondent either. Our series has now been around for 28 years and even though registrations (where people have had to pay) are still running well, numbers at meetings are just not there at the moment and haven't been for at least two seasons.

Over the years I have polled our drivers many times on many different issues, ranging from allowing in cars with engine transplants, newer cars, cars from outside our initial Euro only stance, Datsun Z's, Saturday/Sunday or two day meetings, circuits and so on.

What you can't be responsible for is ill health, reduced income, family/work/travel commitments. Most of all, we have so many cars now, that are out of action due to the difficulty in obtaining parts, or undergoing rebuilds where maybe the wallet isn't as fat as it used to be. Part of my crusade against certain aspects of the CoD system was aimed at the unavailability of items that they demand as original.

We are also running older cars where parts are wearing out and the failure rate at meetings is growing, particularly with transmissions.

Although I am not prepared to throw in the towel, I am seriously considering going back to a single grid, even though the two grids eliminates the massive speed differentials and pit lane starts and I know that some drivers will then pull out which is sad, but sometimes you have to prune to guarantee survival.

You also have to factor in the obvious popularity of the BMW series and the U2K class, both of which are probably easier on the pocket than any older classic or genuine race car.

I love race saloons of years past and you have put so much effort in that it should not be wasted. However, all I can suggest is amalgamating with another group but running as a class. Lets face it, club and international level motorsport has always run on a class system. As I have posted on here many times before, without a decent grid, there is no stage, but there is nothing wrong with combining grids and if drivers don't like it, sorry, too bad. It is for the greater good and you will never please all of the people all of the time so it is futile trying. Get the basics right (which I believe you have done) and just hang in there.

[John McKechnie]

Anything Historic needs patience and acceptance of what it means to be historic.

[kiwi285]

George, can I add my name to those who have asked you to hang in there for a bit longer to try and get some of these people motivated. This class is needed, as the cars we saw in that one meeting so far, have not been on track for many moons and the punters just loved the sights and sounds. Hopefully the bullsh-t will disappear in time.

There would be a lot of disappointed people around if this class is allowed to die so early.

[Rod Grimwood]

I only have a little car, but at moment the wallet is smaller. But a great effort George, and maybe things will change and some of the boys and cars will appear.

Think the main Sports Sedans every one wants to see are the big boys, (they need a bigger wallet) so lets hope.

[Oldfart]

Think the main Sports Sedans every one wants to see are the big boys, (they need a bigger wallet) so lets hope.

Wrong Rod, we want to see them all.

[Jizim]

So I have notified all of the owners of Sports Sedans that I have been in contact with since getting this deal up and running that there are 6 of us that would like to run (Graeme Addis, Roger Davis, Dennis Running Adriane Dobbe, Robert Jack and myself ) at the shceduled round 3 at Hampton Downs November 10th and if anyone will be entering could they let me know as soon as possible because a week out from the event I would have to look at whether we had the 10 cars required as to whether or not we can the round. Unfortunately I have heard a rumor that another class is happy to take over our spots for the rest of the season if we cant get our stuff together by this round which would be a shame but then again I guess that is to be expected. I have to say that it was great to have a good run in a race car again at Puke last weekend as I haven't really done any circuit racing for about 2 years as I have been so busy (even if it was on 10 year old slicks haha)

Tell me George what was your impression of the track at Puke? Were you frightened or intimidated by the new lay out...did you do some lap times that you were happy with? .... Hopefully be at Hampton Downs this weekend and it will be interesting to see if the competitors that didn't wanna run at Puke (because they have been nicked in the head over the challenge) turn up at Hampton Downs because they have no excuse now. Will be back on this thread next week and hopefully you have a reasonable field. After all they did say they were happy to run HD BUT not Puke because of it being too dangerous! Good luck mate.

[Rod Grimwood]

Heard a story of a car that has run at a lot of meetings was pinged at Puke for being a couple decibel over the ("their") limit. And won't return there apparently. This is a neat car and always sounds/goes good (V8 in little car) car has run at Puke numerous time before, but now it is 'too' noisey. Thanks concrete walls and as discussed on other thread, the walls and the way they take readings have stuffed it for a lot of people.
This guy is a great supporter of class and also motorsport in general and hope he keeps coming to HD as it sure will not be too noisey there as it is in same trim as run for along time.

[George Sheweiry]

Obviously the ACC is not going to hold the door open for a class that never fronts and hey who can blame them. I Naively thought with the number of cars already going and all the others sitting around and the people I had talked to who "only needed to put a set of valve springs in" or "needed to rebuild this" or "repaint that" and their enthusiasm for a class that they didnt have to run against the latest DOHC turbo 4WD road car that can lap 3 secs faster in road form than their race car and the fact that this new series would also put some serious value back into their car would be a "no brainer", and thats why I spent 32K on 2 vehicles to help make up the grid and flyers and stickers Toll calls, not to mention hassling 2 people into driving the 2 cars and a lot of hard work to promote it. The spectators who want this to happen by the biggest turn out of people to a club meeting in the last 10 years showed their support for it, the only thing missing was the cars and drivers. To be honest I think Roger Davis summed it up pretty good. Hopefully in the not too distant future someone will get enough cars to get it up and running and if they want the siddy and me to join in then I will run , but untill then I am just going to put her back in moth balls as I refuse to run the car against late model stuff that will detract from the mighty achievements of this great old battle bus. But enough of all that old negativity. Dennis Running and I are busting to have a good drive again and are so dissapointed about all that, we have decided that seeing as how we both still have several Trans am cars each and know there are 10 cars laying around, "STILL GOING" and that those guys can be trusted to front!! we are going to take over the redundant NZHSS spot with the ACC and will run a full series for SCCA Trans am cars starting next season. George jnr has just imported a TA Camaro from the US and is a confirmed starter, as is Alan Ferguson Corvette, Barry Search Camaro, and Andy Greenslade 2 x Jaguars. so in a day or two when I get a chance I will be starting a new thread for it. So there you are , it just goes to show good things can start from different beginnings. I also need to thank the few competitors who did front up for that innaugural meeting of NZHSS, hey boys , we gave it a go!!

[camaroman slp]

Hi George thanks for the special effort trying to get the old cars up and running it would be great to see the old sports sedans running in the PDL Scope classic.South Island all the crowd would rise to there feet as it did in the 70s eg v8 charger/Sid mustang/PDL mustang 1/v8 rx7/Cortina v8s/Capri v8s/v8 Alfa/Victor v8 at Ruapuna and the new circuit down south being built ? Food for thought Sid Mustang might beat the PDL Mustang 2 as it now only has a mild cast iron blocked 351

[John McKechnie]

This Historic Sports Sedan class has had a lot of interest when you look at the number of hits the thread has had and I enjoyed watching the cars actually running on the track. Steve Holmes even ran a thread on a similar vein.
There are group leaders out there who take a long term view of the success of a field- Old Fart for example stepping in with the pre 61 Class. Here he is not worried about racing, it is about facilitating people with these cars to have some fun.
Since the cars are there , is there similarly out there someone with a long term patient view who wants to work within the Historic movement to pick up the reins and continue where this has stopped.
The biggest stumbling block here was ACC requirement that there must be a certain number of cars on the grid, and the emphasis on the racing for points as a competitive series instead of simply getting them there first, so they can then decide their own competitive level.
This needs the painstaking process of this person being involved with the drivers to help get the cars to the track first to build up the numbers- a long term operation-rather than giving dates to comply with.
This is simply my view as I love what each of these cars has done for our spectator pleasure over the years .
Any one else want to add to this to keep the momentum going, as I know there are some gutted drivers out there who did not want this current result?

[ERC]

There are group leaders out there who take a long term view of the success of a field- Old Fart for example stepping in with the pre 61 Class. Here he is not worried about racing, it is about facilitating people with these cars to have some fun.

The biggest stumbling block here was ACC requirement that there must be a certain number of cars on the grid, and the emphasis on the racing for points as a competitive series instead of simply getting them there first, so they can then decide their own competitive level.

John, there are convenors who take a long term view but there are also competitors and club officials who can't see that running a race meeting is not a charity effort so there has to be a middle ground.

That middle ground is sharing the track/grid with a compatible group, until such time as one or other of those groups is viable in its own right. But there are far too many who just want their own exclusivity, but aren't prepared to look at the bigger issue.

I happily wear the hats of driver, series organiser and meeting organiser/promoter, but if there isn't a minimum of $2,000 coming in from a grid, then that grid either has to combine; pay an increased entry fee or go elsewhere - or they are being subsidised by the other drivers or the promoters.

If a group wants to run at our meeting, I really don't care what their format is, how fast/slow they are. If they want to run, all I am interested in is not making a loss. Spectators have no say, as generally, they get in for free anyway, so if Oldfart's cars are running a 2 minute plus lap at Hampton Downs or George's group wanted track time, and he decided it was a marble draw or a staged race, so be it.

If drivers are so precious that they refuse to run with other groups, even with a split grid start, then their best option is to front up with the $12,000 it costs to run a race meeting and invite others along to share the costs, or just hire the track for a play day, but they won't be racing on a play day...

Like you, I am mad keen to see this group run and if it wasn't for the fact that I already have my hands full, I'd happily take it on - but as with our own group, it would only ever be on my terms - ie no committee! The convenor can make the rules and apply them but committee's rarely have vision.

The reality of running a group is that many will show interest - and even pay a registration fee as an expression of good faith, but over the last couple of seasons, we have rarely achieved better than 30% of our paid up drivers at a meeting, so in simple terms, if using that figure as a guideline, then until there are at least 35 cars paid up and registered, then a class is not going to be financially viable, paying a normal entry fee.

Seeing the pictures of Bruce Manon's Escort earlier in the year and now Rob Berrgrens Escort, just to name two series cars damaged when competing away from our own series, we also have to accept that with the best will in the world, cars are going to be side-lined, further reducing grids.

Too many classes already? Maybe, maybe not, but the Historic Race Saloons need a class of their own, whereas there are others who could and should combine. But will they?

[John McKechnie]

Ray- this is extremely informative and well spelt out .
No rose tinted lenses when it comes to reality.

[Habu]

Obviously the ACC is not going to hold the door open for a class that never fronts and hey who can blame them. I Naively thought with the number of cars already going and all the others sitting around and the people I had talked to who "only needed to put a set of valve springs in" or "needed to rebuild this" or "repaint that" and their enthusiasm for a class that they didnt have to run against the latest DOHC turbo 4WD road car that can lap 3 secs faster in road form than their race car and the fact that this new series would also put some serious value back into their car would be a "no brainer", and thats why I spent 32K on 2 vehicles to help make up the grid and flyers and stickers Toll calls, not to mention hassling 2 people into driving the 2 cars and a lot of hard work to promote it. The spectators who want this to happen by the biggest turn out of people to a club meeting in the last 10 years showed their support for it, the only thing missing was the cars and drivers. To be honest I think Roger Davis summed it up pretty good. Hopefully in the not too distant future someone will get enough cars to get it up and running and if they want the siddy and me to join in then I will run , but untill then I am just going to put her back in moth balls as I refuse to run the car against late model stuff that will detract from the mighty achievements of this great old battle bus. But enough of all that old negativity. Dennis Running and I are busting to have a good drive again and are so dissapointed about all that, we have decided that seeing as how we both still have several Trans am cars each and know there are 10 cars laying around, "STILL GOING" and that those guys can be trusted to front!! we are going to take over the redundant NZHSS spot with the ACC and will run a full series for SCCA Trans am cars starting next season. George jnr has just imported a TA Camaro from the US and is a confirmed starter, as is Alan Ferguson Corvette, Barry Search Camaro, and Andy Greenslade 2 x Jaguars. so in a day or two when I get a chance I will be starting a new thread for it. So there you are , it just goes to show good things can start from different beginnings. I also need to thank the few competitors who did front up for that innaugural meeting of NZHSS, hey boys , we gave it a go!!

Just like to say thank you George, for all the effort you and other car owners went to the trouble, time and effort of making the HSS class a reality and running at HD.

Although I am disappointed that the series will not continue in its present form, primarily due to those who gave a commitment to run, and then let you and other car owners/drivers down, I will continue to spectate and look forward to the new Trans Am series that you speak of.

Stoked that I saw the Sidchrome Mustang run again, and got to introduce my 17 year old son to cars from an era that really ignited a passion for motorsport back when I was a kid.

[touringcarfan]

Obviously the ACC is not going to hold the door open for a class that never fronts and hey who can blame them. I Naively thought with the number of cars already going and all the others sitting around and the people I had talked to who "only needed to put a set of valve springs in" or "needed to rebuild this" or "repaint that" and their enthusiasm for a class that they didnt have to run against the latest DOHC turbo 4WD road car that can lap 3 secs faster in road form than their race car and the fact that this new series would also put some serious value back into their car would be a "no brainer", and thats why I spent 32K on 2 vehicles to help make up the grid and flyers and stickers Toll calls, not to mention hassling 2 people into driving the 2 cars and a lot of hard work to promote it. The spectators who want this to happen by the biggest turn out of people to a club meeting in the last 10 years showed their support for it, the only thing missing was the cars and drivers. To be honest I think Roger Davis summed it up pretty good. Hopefully in the not too distant future someone will get enough cars to get it up and running and if they want the siddy and me to join in then I will run , but untill then I am just going to put her back in moth balls as I refuse to run the car against late model stuff that will detract from the mighty achievements of this great old battle bus. But enough of all that old negativity. Dennis Running and I are busting to have a good drive again and are so dissapointed about all that, we have decided that seeing as how we both still have several Trans am cars each and know there are 10 cars laying around, "STILL GOING" and that those guys can be trusted to front!! we are going to take over the redundant NZHSS spot with the ACC and will run a full series for SCCA Trans am cars starting next season. George jnr has just imported a TA Camaro from the US and is a confirmed starter, as is Alan Ferguson Corvette, Barry Search Camaro, and Andy Greenslade 2 x Jaguars. so in a day or two when I get a chance I will be starting a new thread for it. So there you are , it just goes to show good things can start from different beginnings. I also need to thank the few competitors who did front up for that innaugural meeting of NZHSS, hey boys , we gave it a go!!

Hi George

You certainly gave NZHSS your all and at the end of the day the car owners needed to play ball. I am certainly interested in your next venture for SCCA Trans Ams. I will wait for the new thread as I have a lot of questions regarding these cars.

Cheers

Anthony Sampson

[John McKechnie]

Last post is demeaning, belittling and insulting- car owners not playing ball ?
George had spent a few years getting his car ready, and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting. And I didnt see the Sidchrome Mustang , I saw the Shewiery Mustang.
This whole thing came together very quickly. Others needed time to get their cars ready, and George knows how long it takes to prepare a car.
Full marks to those who got there to the inaugural meeting, we loved the show.
I feel for the guys who slaved to meet the deadlines, didnt make it.
And now they get kicked, slandered and abused- these are the guys who make up the field and have done the hard yards.
These cars are far too valuable and as some such as the Addis Charger and the Algie Monaro have been laid up for too long to rush out unprepared.
And to hear that he went out and bought extra cars to make up the field when I made it public Barry needed some money for a radiator and he would have been there.
George decided to move on but these guys still have their cars , they want to finish them and run them.
And they will because they WANT to, for themselves and for you.
In the meantime, show these owners and the cars some respect and support

All owners should be respected for their efforts, and take heart to continue - from someone who didnt get there in time.

Anything Historic needs patience and acceptance of what it means to be historic.- my earlier post.

I

[touringcarfan]

Last post is demeaning, belittling and insulting- car owners not playing ball ?
George had spent a few years getting his car ready, and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting. And I didnt see the Sidchrome Mustang , I saw the Shewiery Mustang.
This whole thing came together very quickly. Others needed time to get their cars ready, and George knows how long it takes to prepare a car.
Full marks to those who got there to the inaugural meeting, we loved the show.
I feel for the guys who slaved to meet the deadlines, didnt make it.
And now they get kicked, slandered and abused- these are the guys who make up the field and have done the hard yards.
These cars are far too valuable and as some such as the Addis Charger and the Algie Monaro have been laid up for too long to rush out unprepared.
And to hear that he went out and bought extra cars to make up the field when I made it public Barry needed some money for a radiator and he would have been there.
George decided to move on but these guys still have their cars , they want to finish them and run them.
And they will because they WANT to, for themselves and for you.
In the meantime, show these owners and the cars some respect and support

All owners should be respected for their efforts, and take heart to continue - from someone who didnt get there in time.

Anything Historic needs patience and acceptance of what it means to be historic.- my earlier post.

I

Fair enough John, but why put your hand up when it`s obvious you might never make it to the deadline?

Anthony

[John McKechnie]

My XA is NOT a Historic Sports Sedan, so therefore not entitled to be there.
As such, my car was never in Georges plan.
Second point is that at THAT moment my car was a runner.
Later ,it wasnt and I emailed George well in advance that I was not able to run .
This thread is about Historic Sports Sedans and shaping its future .

[touringcarfan]

Sorry John, I wasn`t asking that question of you personally.

Anthony

[George Sheweiry]

Last post is demeaning, belittling and insulting- car owners not playing ball ?
George had spent a few years getting his car ready, and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting. And I didnt see the Sidchrome Mustang , I saw the Shewiery Mustang.
This whole thing came together very quickly. Others needed time to get their cars ready, and George knows how long it takes to prepare a car.
Full marks to those who got there to the inaugural meeting, we loved the show.
I feel for the guys who slaved to meet the deadlines, didnt make it.
And now they get kicked, slandered and abused- these are the guys who make up the field and have done the hard yards.
These cars are far too valuable and as some such as the Addis Charger and the Algie Monaro have been laid up for too long to rush out unprepared.
And to hear that he went out and bought extra cars to make up the field when I made it public Barry needed some money for a radiator and he would have been there.
George decided to move on but these guys still have their cars , they want to finish them and run them.
And they will because they WANT to, for themselves and for you.
In the meantime, show these owners and the cars some respect and support

All owners should be respected for their efforts, and take heart to continue - from someone who didnt get there in time.

Anything Historic needs patience and acceptance of what it means to be historic.- my earlier post.

I


Well Johnny that was a nice little attempt to lay all this on me, its a shame theres just a nasty little thing called the facts to get in its way. Firstly after talking to people about these old cars and finding there was interest in starting a class I canvassed everyone as to would they run their cars if I could arrange a series for them to run in beginning September and could they make the first meeting. 80% said yes, and no I was not holding a gun to their head. So much for the " came together very quickly and needed time to get ready.
second "and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting" Hello Johnny I paid my entry fee and was there and did practice!! Yes I should have had the car for a test day but instead I was slacking, rebuilding the engine and fitting it back into my daughters car and helping my son with the gearbox in his Falcon, having to buy and organize 2 other cars and drivers to run them because I was worried I was going to be let down, run my electrical business, correspond with all the others (email and phone), try and help with my 84 yr old mothers failing health issues, liaise with the car club, and try to finish my car with my sons help in the 2 last days, finally loading it in the transporter 1.30am Saturday night!!! and what were you doing at that time Johnny!! Oh and by the way you announced Barry needed a new radiator AFTER I had said on this forum that I had bought the 2 cars. and so what does that mean , that I should pay for everyone's parts so they can go racing!!!!! And yes after sidchrome declining both times I put Sheweiry on the car cause I couldn't afford to be sued by them if they really didn't want it on. So tell me again how I let this deal down, Didnt do enough Maybe!!! So thanks very much for let me see, what was your quote for the owners of these cars??? Oh thats right some respect and support!!

[Frosty5]

Well Johnny that was a nice little attempt to lay all this on me, its a shame theres just a nasty little thing called the facts to get in its way. Firstly after talking to people about these old cars and finding there was interest in starting a class I canvassed everyone as to would they run their cars if I could arrange a series for them to run in beginning September and could they make the first meeting. 80% said yes, and no I was not holding a gun to their head. So much for the " came together very quickly and needed time to get ready.
second "and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting" Hello Johnny I paid my entry fee and was there and did practice!! Yes I should have had the car for a test day but instead I was slacking, rebuilding the engine and fitting it back into my daughters car and helping my son with the gearbox in his Falcon, having to buy and organize 2 other cars and drivers to run them because I was worried I was going to be let down, run my electrical business, correspond with all the others (email and phone), try and help with my 84 yr old mothers failing health issues, liaise with the car club, and try to finish my car with my sons help in the 2 last days, finally loading it in the transporter 1.30am Saturday night!!! and what were you doing at that time Johnny!! Oh and by the way you announced Barry needed a new radiator AFTER I had said on this forum that I had bought the 2 cars. and so what does that mean , that I should pay for everyone's parts so they can go racing!!!!! And yes after sidchrome declining both times I put Sheweiry on the car cause I couldn't afford to be sued by them if they really didn't want it on. So tell me again how I let this deal down, Didnt do enough Maybe!!! So thanks very much for let me see, what was your quote for the owners of these cars??? Oh thats right some respect and support!!

I am stunned by the opening line of a members comments (Last post is demeaning, belittling and insulting- car owners not playing ball?) and need to comment. Unless I am sadly mistaken this is a "I told you so" line and it pains me to see that a fellow member has the temerity to comment like that. You put in a monumental effort to get this class up and running only to be let down by those who were so enthusiastic at the beginning. I guess they all have their reasons for not fronting up and that is something that needs to be accepted, unpalatable as it may be. But I think those who witnessed the initial debut of the class were mightily impressed and you should take heart from that. This was not a failure in my view but more of a speed bump. While I am not suggesting for one moment this should happen to you I think the sentiments are apt given the previous outburst.
"To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone. Bruce McLaren.
And by God you certainly have achieved in life George. Take care, chin up and look forward.
Best regards
Dave Graham

[George Sheweiry]

Look thanks for those kind words Dave, and to all the others who have said kind things. Its very humbling to hear such praise but that was not my reason for doing this, its just that it seemed like it was what everyone wanted, hey including myself, to have these neat old cars out there. I guess as well it is good to have criticisms as well as then you can readdress the issue and of course make changes to anything you may have missed or not thought of but that is not easy to listen to either as you can see from my reaction. I am a car guy, always have and always will be and yes I now move away from this "exercise" as I have completely run out of ideas to get these people motivated and their cars out there, so my use to this proposed series is at an end for me and this is only because I am one of those dumb "do it guys", I virtually dont have a social life as I find it hard to relax, that's why you never see me at the pub or out and about other than things to do with cars or my family. Boring Aye! but that is one of my failings, I am also not one bit PC but if you want my opinion you will get it, not done with mirrors and shadows and as well, if I have something to say I say it, so Sorry to anyone I have unwittingly offended. But any way enough of me and what could be and couldn't etc. Thanks of course to Steve Holmes we have a great information channel that is a good way indeed of thrashing all this old stuff about and I think enough has been said about all this and again thank you all for the heart felt support but it is time to move on and forward and you never know something may eventually happen, Fingers crossed aye. Regards, Shrewsberry.

[ERC]

Rome wasn't built in a day...

Maybe some people expect too much too soon? I can undertstand ACC's position, but we all know that there is a need for this class as I said before, it is the missing link. It is the only class of cars I can think of, that currently doesn't have a place to race.

Maybe I should take a long hard look at our own two groups as if our own active numbers don't increase, then maybe we can push a few of the slower guys in the fast group, down in to the slower group to re-boost their numbers and create another class within the faster group.

Then the issue would probably be (from both groups), "No, we racers with our older race saloons, don't want to race against Porsches, MGB V8s, TR7 V8s, Capris (6 & 8 cyl), Ferrari etc", and our Sports/GT drivers running on road tyres, might well object to racing against race cars on slicks...

The other logical mix - and probably more sensible is for the race saloons to race with the Historic Muscle Cars as in both cases, the numbers are not yet there. Steve, Dale and Tony have a solid set of rules for their own cars, but at this stage, they cannot yet field a cost effective grid. Surely this is the most logical step forward as even with the vast pubicity the HMC has had over the last couple of years, on here and in print - plus backing from the Historic Commission, being realistic, the reality of a consistently cost effective grid in the future is still some time away.

I may get shot down for this, but at the real end of the day, race meetings do have to be cost effective and if drivers can't cope with another class of cars sharing "their grid", the answer has been noted earlier. No one (or two or even three) driver(s) is bigger than the class and let's not forget it.

The U3L grid shares the track with the HMC at non-series meetings. The commonality however is not the cars, it is the CoD or the perceived rules.

[touringcarfan]

I wish to apologise for my comment regarding drivers playing ball. It was said based on my simple philosophy of `if you make a commitment you stick to it`. This may have been a bit harsh and I really don`t go out of my way to offend people, so sorry.

Anthony

[Rod Grimwood]

"sharing" a grid in some form with HMC on a meeting by meeting basis is something that has crossed my mind, while both have smaller numbers. . Maybe something along the line of starting each class with a half lap space.? and only with the blessing or invite from HMC so as not to offend.




Just got computer back after 2 weeks and been away so bit behind

This email answer I sent to some of the guys tonight. just my way of looking at it.

Roger you are thinking in the direction I have been.

Copy email;

Guy's for what it is worth my thoughts are:

This will not happen over night, (it hasn't) and if as cars become ready/available and they appear at classic meetings (who will put them in some class to have a run) and the numbers pick up then the groups running the meetings will make room available to run the cars.
The reality is at the moment, you will have to run with later (or re-engined) similar cars that are quicker, but I think just to run the car and don't worry about how fast others are and look after your cars is the priority. I do not think the realistic motorsport person would expect the 'Siddy', 'Charger', or 'Alfetta' to be quicker than the 'Merc' or later Trans Ams but will pay more attention to them. I believe, Just run the cars as time and money will allow to finish them, and some people who have other commitments at different times, cut them some slack, as they will (already do) run at classic meetings and you will all end up together.

I am only a small player and only filled out fields in old days, but when I do run my car it will be a real slug as I do not have the latest tech engine etc. I will be against Lotus twin cams which make alot more now than old days, and Cosworths etc.

But will have my chilly bin as in old days.

Lets just chill and get on with what we are doing.

Cheers
Rod Grimwood

[rogered]

Wise words :)

[ERC]

The reality is at the moment, you will have to run with later (or re-engined) similar cars that are quicker, but I think just to run the car and don't worry about how fast others are and look after your cars is the priority.

And that gentleman is it in a nutshell. It is not now and never has been and never will be, a level playing field. The other cars can't all be quicker so there is a natural grouping by lap times. As long as no one expects to get the vacant seat at McLaren and gives everyone racing room, all is sweet.

[AMCO72]

Rod,I think you are selling yourself a bit short there when you say that 'you only filled out fields in the old days'.

In my experience it is the Guys that 'only filled out the fields' that had the best racing, while the Hot-Shots roared off into the distance!
The racing would be pretty damn boring if there were not the `'amateurs'......read impecunious.......competitors providing most of the thrills, and yes spills, of racing.

As ERC says........'it is not now, never has been, and never will be a level playing field. How true. Viva the 'Field Fillers'!!!!!!!

[George Sheweiry]

Rod,I think you are selling yourself a bit short there when you say that 'you only filled out fields in the old days'.

In my experience it is the Guys that 'only filled out the fields' that had the best racing, while the Hot-Shots roared off into the distance!
The racing would be pretty damn boring if there were not the `'amateurs'......read impecunious.......competitors providing most of the thrills, and yes spills, of racing.

As ERC says........'it is not now, never has been, and never will be a level playing field. How true. Viva the 'Field Fillers'!!!!!!!


You are dead right there Gerald. I would doubt whether there was any more than a couple of tenths in driving ability between the whole field. Its just that probably 90% of the guys were there doin it out of their back pockets and probably didn't give a toss where they finished but they did what they could with what they had. Also car setup etc was so secretive most of those guys were doing a bloody good job driving bad handling cars! That's why I liked the handicap races so much cause 1/ it was great to watch instead of a procession and 2/ it gave those guys a chance. It always used to annoy me watching a race and someone was saying oh look how slow that guy is, he should'nt be out there, but he was out there and not sitting on his ass but giving it a go. Good on the Battlers!!

[Ellis]

Mid fielders have all the fun and can see the race and be part of it.

The leader just has an open track and no cars ....

Handicap stuff is lots more interesting for all concerned as George said.

Ellis

[ERC]

Spot on. Which is one of the major reasons I have given up racing at the Festival meetings at Hampton Downs.

Running around in glorious isolation at or near the very back the back of the field - even if you have beaten your best time ever - is no fun at all. You don't see another car for 5 or 6 of the 8 laps then the leaders just gobble you up and you finish the race having only completed 7 laps. I'd rather pay $135 and do a Play Day, or, one of our series races, or, take photographs of the nice cars at the Festival.

If I finish last in a handicap race, I still get 8 laps and I generally have the mirrors full for most of the race and I feel part of the action.

[AMCO72]

I know I have gone on about handicap races since 'Auntie fell off the tram' !!!!!!!! I have seen some of the best racing EVER under a handicap system, so WHY are so many people against it. Surely it cant be THAT hard to work out handicaps. Ok, so you aren't going to get it dead right, because of all sorts of reasons, but it will be near enough.

Watching those hard chargers working their way through the field, while those they are trying to catch are doing their best to keep in front has made for some very memorable battles.

And don't tell me it is dangerous. For one thing it avoids that mad scramble at the first few corners in a scratch race.

If we don't get some handicap type racing in the future, I am predicting that cars that usually run at the back of the field will slowly drop away, never to return.

I have spent some time myself being tail-end Charlie, and have spoken to other drivers in the same situation. Without exception they have all said how surprised they were at the speed difference between them and the front runners.

We are all being told that we are out there to have fun, well I can tell you it is NO fun at the back, especially when you get lapped.

[Ellis]

At Baskerville Historics (Its in Tassie for George's benefit) each Oct, they have for the last race of the 2nd day , a handicap 10 lapper called the Boss of Baskerville.
Apart from the field sometimes being slightly depleted after 2 days of racing the spectators in the main stay on till its over.
It can have Improved Production , Sports Sedans , HQ's and Historic Grp N cars all out together.
Its well worth watching.

[Jac Mac]

I know I have gone on about handicap races since 'Auntie fell off the tram' !!!!!!!! I have seen some of the best racing EVER under a handicap system, so WHY are so many people against it. Surely it cant be THAT hard to work out handicaps. Ok, so you aren't going to get it dead right, because of all sorts of reasons, but it will be near enough.

Watching those hard chargers working their way through the field, while those they are trying to catch are doing their best to keep in front has made for some very memorable battles.

And don't tell me it is dangerous. For one thing it avoids that mad scramble at the first few corners in a scratch race.

If we don't get some handicap type racing in the future, I am predicting that cars that usually run at the back of the field will slowly drop away, never to return.

I have spent some time myself being tail-end Charlie, and have spoken to other drivers in the same situation. Without exception they have all said how surprised they were at the speed difference between them and the front runners.

We are all being told that we are out there to have fun, well I can tell you it is NO fun at the back, especially when you get lapped.
That sounds like really good plan Gerald, rather than creating a whole heap of 'new' class's with the constant difficulty of decent field numbers, just start a 'classic' handicap series where all types are catered for. First race for any competitor at any circuit if they have no previous lap times they go off the back of the handicap or perhaps something like 20 seconds should cut down on any first time out hedging and let the new boys dial themselves in, shouldnt be difficult to get good fields with a larger pool to draw from..

[ERC]

We have run our series 100% on handicaps for 17 out of the last 18 seasons.

I keep an historical record of lap times at each track for each car/driver combination. On race day, race one is never a points race, always a scratch race.

Races 2 & 3 are for series points and are handicaps. My system uses a mix of current times and historical, at a ratio of anything from 5:0 to 0:5. A bit of massaging is often applied if a driver has had it too easy, or had problems, but overall, it works pretty well. Sure, a yellow flag or safety car intervention can stuff it up, as can a driver who has struggled with a misfire and suddenly resolves it.

Needless to say we COULD apply a rule whereby you can't beat your previous best time that weekend by more than a specified %, but why bother? It is chocolate fish racing and if people don't like the structure, or don't drive with respect for the other drivers, then they can play in someone else's sandpit.

In terms of eligibility, it has always been a pragmatically applied Euro 'road' series, which is why we need this race series, as road and race cars don't mix too well.

[Peter Nelson]

Hi Folks, been a while since I managed to log on here, but is there any chance the historic sports sedans will race in the coming season again? There is a great group of cars and hopefully they will get to race this season. Any information wouldl be really appreciated

[John McKechnie]

Peter- the guys who ran in the Historic Sports Sedans at HD in Jan and March want to do it again and will be running Ice Breaker at HD mid September- see HSS at Ferrari meeting thread for info. Glad you appreciated the show, and hope you and others can come along.