Ron Roycroft's Ferrari

[Kwaussie]

Here is a great first photo with 25896

sellotape around the edges of the Scuderia Auvergne Ferrari 375F1 with Sergio Scaglietti centre seat body and de portago testing at ?? ??

[stubuchanan]

Looks like the banked part of the Montlhery track near Paris. According to Scott Thompson's "Roycroft Years", De Portago raced the car at Montlhery either late in the 1954 season or early 1955, before owner Louis Rosier found a (?)gullible Kiwi called A. J. Roycroft who bought it sight unseen.
Earlier in 1954, Rosier had placed 7th in the Buenos Aires 1000 Km Sports Car Champ Race, and 4th at Agadir in Morocco (a traditional French race) and entered it for Le Mans, but was offered a 'works' Ferrari drive instead.

Stu

[stubuchanan]

More info : --
April 17 1955 actually, Coupes de Paris races, Montlhery, and De Portago finished 4th. Three weeks later, he had a big accident in a F1 Ferrari at Silverstone International Trophy meeting and was out of action for the rest of the season. He had a short but eventful life!

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Another of De Portago at Monthlhery and one of Rosier at Agadir.

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[stubuchanan]

Photos from the depths of history!

The C-Type Jag in the Agadir photo will be Englishman Danny Margulies, whose unpaid mechanic and co-driver on this trip was one Graham Hill. This may have been Rosier's last race in the 375 Ferrari - he seems to have driven a Ferrari 750 Monza in other sports car races in 1955, and a 250F Maserati in F1. He was steady rather than fast, and nearly 50 years old at this stage.

Stu

[rogered]

what ever happened to the body of this??

[Kwaussie]

what ever happened to the body of this??
Wish I knew - and one more from Buenos Aires 1000Km

[Kwaussie]

One more of Louis Rosier at Agadir

26091

[stubuchanan]

Second from left would be owner Louis Rosier. His co-driver for the 1000 km race was Maurice Trintignant, but I don't see him there.

Rod Coppins had the sports body on the Tec-Mec for the 1961-62 season, still in the original French blue at Renwick, and then painted black for the rest of the season. He put it through a brick wall in the very wet Dunedin Road Race in Feb 1962, but it was tidied up for Waimate races the next weekend, where he retired in the sports car race and didn't start in the main Waimate '50'.

The body may have been dumped then, as Coppins raced the car as a single-seater in 1962-63 with the original body slightly altered.

http://s6.postimg.org/il83hg9rl/Waimate_Tec_Mec_Repair.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

All hands to the pumps at Waimate Coppins-? G Peterson - Palmer, but only one of them is working. Photos from Scott Thompson's Waimate '50' History.

http://s6.postimg.org/imi1avbld/Tec_Mec_Waimate_SC.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Tec Mec third in line-up after 2 Lolas

Just noted the colour shot at Agadir - quite spectacular scenery. Won't be the same now, there was a big earthquake there in 1960 with about 12000 killed - a lot of dodgy buildings collapsed. But they were holding races again only a year or 2 later!

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Stu
Just picked this up tonight from another site who were talking about Agadir.

"spent a day or two in agadir in 1973 while on a traveling fellowship. as an architect it is a very interesting city. it was destroyed by i believe an earthquake in the fifties (apparently well before '55) and rebuilt by the french. thus it is a very concentrated collection of contemporary french architecture that may be unmatched anywhere. some of the modern buildings are clearly visilbe in the pictures."

edit - Stu,
My wife has been looking over a few posts that I made and just informed me that the Agadir earthquake was the very big one and occurred on 29 Feb 1960, so you are correct, huge loss of life.

[Kwaussie]

It is interesting that there are not many photos around of the sports body in Ron Roycrofts hands prior to Rod Coppins attaching it to the TEC-Mec.
Lets say give it a week before posting any photos of Jack Morral's smashing Indianapolis body - just in case there a few unseen images out there!

[stubuchanan]

I have seen only a few pictures of the car in sports-car trim in NZ and none of these even has a driver in it. I'm not sure when it actually arrived in NZ, but probably quite late in 1955. When it was first run, Ralph Watson noted that it wasn't running on all 12 cylinders, about 9 or 10, maybe due to bent valves, and owner A J Roycroft thought the transmission made some strange noises.

Accordingly they put it aside and prepared the old Bugatti-Jaguar for the 1956 international season, but when that car had steering-box problems in Dunedin, Ron brought the Ferrari down to Christchurch for the Mairehau road race. I gather no work had been done on it, and not surprisingly, it broke a half-shaft on the starting-line. So the sports car body didn't actually have any racing miles in NZ. They took it back to Auckland and Ron's father decided to have a single-seater body built for it, although Ron apparently wasn't sure this would be of any advantage, and repairs to the tired engine were done by Watson and others.

http://s6.postimg.org/5q9am699t/RJR_Ferrari_Mairehau_56.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

This photo from Allan Dick's 'Classic Driver' magazine of a few years back, is the only one I can find of the Ferrari at a Race venue.

As for the sports body, I wonder if it went back to Ron Roycroft after Rod Coppins discarded it from the TecMec. Ron had a great collection of cars and bits of cars at Glen Murray, but no doubt all dispersed now.

Stu

[Steve Holmes]

Amazing thread and pics! Out of interest, does the Montlhery banking still exist?

[Kwaussie]

Not sure Steve, will have a look around tonight.
Stu's historic information and photos are just great.
When you start to research information on a particular car like the Rosier / Roycroft Ferrari 375 you can come across some very interesting web sites for example - http://motorsportinangola.blogspot.com.au/2010/07/circuito-de-agadir-marrocos-1951.html
If you are interested click Grand prix de Agadir 1955 on the right hand side bar and you will see more photos of the 375 Sports #2

Montlhery website http://montlhery.com/autodrom_eng.htm

[Oldfart]

Amazing thread and pics! Out of interest, does the Montlhery banking still exist?

I have seen coverage of a number of recent French club events where it has been used. Renault Gordini, Alpine etc one make gatherings where the track is used at "enthusiastic" speeds. Usually with chicanes added to include some corners. Sorry, yes that does include both bankings which show as being concave in their surface and notably so, ie much steeper at the top than lower down.

[Allan]

Google "Automobile de Linas-Montlthery" (or 48 degrees 37 minutes 30 seconds by 2 degrees 14 minutes 30 seconds) and you will find the track.

[stubuchanan]

Here is another picture of the Ferrari body on the Coppins TecMec - at Renwick in November 1961. This might have been his first outing in the car, note the body is still the light colour, presumably French Blue; it was black by the time of the GP at Ardmore.
http://s6.postimg.org/jmm4bsuwh/Mans_Shel_Cop_Renwick002.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Here he is following the Coopers of Mansel and Shelly, but Pat Hoare won in the V12 Ferrari and Coppins retired.

http://s6.postimg.org/mlofl6f01/Montlhery_Current.png (http://postimage.org/)

This is the Montlhery "oval" from Google. As Oldfart says, it is still in use, and also there is a 90th anniversary scheduled for next year according to their website. They describe the track as : "It has a concave profile in the shape of a cubic parabola with a vertical axis.....".

For a 90-year-old track it looks to be in very good condition, Brooklands and Monza bankings were deteriorating after 20 or so years. French quality obviously, the Eiffel Tower hasn't fallen down either and it's even older! The website implies that the current circuit uses only the right half of the banking, with the left end using the road visible on the outside of the banking, with 2 hairpin bends, but the TV or video says otherwise.

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Great photo from Renwick - never seen that one before!
Terry Roycroft said that his dad painted everything in Dulux 93 Delft Blue, I wonder if the sports body had a quick spray after arriving in New Zealand?

The old banked circuits in Europe were very special places - will be at this one in Spain next week.


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[stubuchanan]

Looks like it should be Sitges-Terramar south of Barcelona, even older than Montlhery. It didn't ever get much use, not helped by the prize money for the first meeting not being paid out, because the building contractors impounded the gate takings to cover unpaid cost over-runs.
The Spanish must have known a bit about concrete-work, just like Montlhery - 90 plus year old track looks good, and it certainly didn't get any maintenance, most of its life it seems to have been closed and chained up. Didn't get there on the big OE, but drove the Bedford camper around Montjuich in Barcelona when it was being set up for Motor-bike races in 1970. A great circuit.

Stu

[Kwaussie]

Correct again Stu!
Here is a great link from 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-gCq2xpFzE

edit: sorry I forgot that it is in Spanish buth you will get the idea.

[Kwaussie]

For some reason I cannot pick up my files of the 375F1 with NZ built body to attach here.
So it has to be one more of Sitges, this time of concrete work on one of the bankings note the ladders!26201

[GeebeeNZ]

26323

When I bought my Mallock Sports car from Ron it had a nicely upholstered very small alloy seat in it. I asked Ron what the seat was out of. He said it came from the Ferrari and was the regulation passenger seat. Terry has confirmed that he went for a ride in the centre seat sports car and confirms it had a little seat in it. Other than that I have not been able to confirm or deny its heritage. I have sold the Mallock but kept the little seat in the hope that it has some history.
Graeme Banks

[GeebeeNZ]

http://youtu.be/irUFsFTBS-k

I have this clip from Mairehau showing that the car didn't leave the line and had to be pushed back. apologies for the poor quality of the copy

[stubuchanan]

Quality of film be damned, it's a piece of history. It shows exactly what happened at Mairehau 1956. A scary place, though, with the road only wide enough for 2 cars (They used to line up the cars 2/1/2/1... for grid starts). This race was a handicap and some of the front runners had been going for about 15 minutes when Roycroft was due to start, and some of them zip through while they are pushing/pulling the Ferrari.

Stu

[petgro]

Hello all,

I am a dutch ferarri historian who is researching Ferrari 357 F1 #2 (the Roycroft ferrari)
I finally got hold of: "Up to speed" last week and found out that beyond all races I knew Roycroft ran with this car it was also entered in a hillclimb event: in South Canterbury in 1958 (result 4th OA).
Does anyone have more info (time / pictures) of this event.
I am also looking for detailed results (qualifying times / laps ran / total race time etc.) of all other entries:
4-2-1956 6th CWF Hamilton Trophy, Mairehau - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft Rtd - rear axle
12-1-1957 4th NZ G.P., Ardmore 19 Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft Rtd 63 laps driver exhausting
25-1-1957 6th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 3rd 70 laps -
2-2-1957 5th Dunedin Road Race, Dunedin - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft Rtd 15 laps transmission
16-2-1957 9th NZ Champioship Road Race, Ryal Bush - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 4th - -
23-2-1957 2nd South Island Champ Road Race, Mairehau - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft DNA - -
11-1-1958 5th New Zealand G.P., Ardmore - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 3rd 1h53:44.6 75 laps
18-1-1958 1st Levin International, Levin - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 5th 10 laps -
25-1-1958 7th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 8th - -
1-2-1958 6th Dunedin Road Race, Dunedin - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft Rtd 2 laps gearbox
8-2-1958 1st Teretonga International, Teretonga - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 5th - -
1-3-1958 Ardmore 50, Ardmore - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 2nd - -
10-1-1959 6th New Zealand G.P., Ardmore - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft DNQ - -
9-1-1960 7th New Zealand G.P., Ardmore - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 12th 63 laps -
23-1-1960 9th Lady Wigram Trophy, Wigram - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft 10th 64 laps -
30-1-1960 7th Dunedin Road Race, Dunedin - Ron Roycroft A.J. Roycroft Rtd 3 laps -
Can anybody please help.

Peter

[Milan Fistonic]

Here is some information to be going on with.

47610

[petgro]

Thanks,
Great help.
Whats the source?
Peter

[Roger Dowding]

haven't followed this thread, but knew that the " Roycroft's - Father and Son " had one.. My Uncle Eddie Dowding, knew both A J and Ron well in the 1940's 50's .. Ed said to me recently [ he is 98 ] that " A J was a better driver than Ron "
.. must ask Terry one day - he was at Chelsea Walsh on the weekend the Bugatti-Jaguar also in Blue so have added a pic too !!
The thread mentions removing the Sports Car body and creating a Single Seater, which was painted Blue, the French National racing colour back when that was important !!.
Presume this is the same car. have my Scott Thomson book, but not able to get to it at the moment - separated by 200km and a storage unit, that is another story.

Here at Ardmore Reunion in 1989 ..

47633

The Bug-Jag from behind at Chelsea yesterday,did not get another shot of it - am sure others did like ERC or BMC BOY

47634

[Trevor Sheffield]

Thanks,
Great help.
Whats the source?
Peter

Greetings Peter,

The information has been directly copied without acknowledgement, from a publication now out of print but available here:-

http://ralphwatson.scienceontheweb.net

I can assure that the information is from a reliable source and is accurate. If I can help you with content in digital form, please advise and I will let you have my email address via a personal message.

I wish you well with your project.

Trevor.

[nigel watts]

47635

47636

[ERC]

Bug-Jag - wife's photo...



47637

[GeebeeNZ]

Still have that little alloy leather covered seat believed to have come from the sports car body. Don't know what to do with it but it remains my part of that fantastic cars history. Graeme Banks

[Kwaussie]

Just find the Scaglietti centre seat body Graeme and you have the basis for a very good reproduction!
I am a bit of a Ferrari nut so if you ever want to part with it let me know via pm Thanks

[khyndart in CA]

Some photos of Ron Roycroft and his Ferrari at Ardmore in 1957.
47650
"The most likely contender was Ron Roycroft, in a 4½-litre V12 Ferrari, originally a 1952 sports car, but considerably modified and fitted with a single-seat body." (Sergent.com.au ) (Photo from Eoin Young's book "Classic Racers" )

47651
Ron was sensational at the start and led for 10 laps before the heat and fuel fumes almost caused him to pass out and was fortunate to have First Aid attendants for immediate assistance. (sergent.com.au photo )

47652
Another view of Ron Roycroft at Ardmore in 1957. Note all those safety drums compared to todays standards !
(sergent.com.au photo )


47659
Photo from Eoin Young's book "Classic Racers"



(Ken H)

[petgro]

Does anyone know the exact dates of its history after roycroft stopped racing the car.
Car to Nunn - engine in power boat - chassis given. To Ferris de Joux.
Back to Gavin Bain - restored - engine reunited.
Entered in races after that.
Sold to pefetti (i)???
Now where abouts??

[khyndart in CA]

I did find this quote at Ultimatecarpage.com ;
"#375-2, the car Froilan Gonzalez used to win the British Grand Prix at Silverstone in 1951 and Ascari, the German Grand Prix, was sold to Louis Rosier in 1952. He raced it in Formula Libre events and won the Albi GP in 1953 & 53. Converted to a single seat sports car in 1953, it was taken to South America where Rosier came 7th, in the Buenos Aires 1000km, co driving with Maurice Trintigant In 1955, the car was sold to Ron Roycroft, in New Zealand. Roycroft rebuilt the car with a close copy of the Indianapolis 375 body.Roycroft raced the car with varying success in NZ until 1960. After languishing for some years, the engine was sold to Ernie Nunn, in Australia, for a hydroplane, and the chassis was used by local coachbuilder, Ferris De Joux, to build a fibreglass bodied, Jaguar powered, GT car. In 1968, local, Gavin Bain, bought the GT, eventually recovered the original engine, and the car was rebuilt in it’s 1955 Roycroft configuration. Raced in various historic events in NZ & Australia, it was sold to Giorgio Perfetti, in Switzerland, in 1992."

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/comments/120/Ferrari-375-F1.html


47670
As this magnificent Ferrari looks today. - Driver: Fernando Alonso



(Ken H )

[petgro]

This wonderfull site gives an insight in the 375 engine:

http://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/1st_Pressure-Charged_Era_(1PC)_Part_2.pdf

[BMCBOY]

Here's a few shots I have posted before, but should also be in this thread.

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47673

47675

47674

47676

47677

[ERC]

World class photos Ross. Just brilliant.

[Kwaussie]

Another old one!

[petgro]

Does anybody have info on the 1958 hillclimb entry at Clellands (Timaru): results: 4th (time??) - pictures??

[Oldfart]

Being picky (cos people know I am) post 36 from ultimate car page, says Eric deJoux, which we all know is Ferris.

[Kwaussie]

This was a great effort by Ferris deJoux on an old Ferrari 375 chassis [did the body survive?]