Formula 5000 [Archive] - The Roaring Season

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105angria

07-22-2011, 03:52 AM

Looking at Steves great video post for the Australian GP for F5000,s Great footage of Graham Mcrae ,great driver and car builder ,what happened to him I saw somewere He had a bit of a breakdown but he had some help and things were now ok.Great cars with some good racing,but I remember our dissapointing how many cars allways broke down when you look at the construction its amazing somebody didnt lose there legs!

Steve Holmes

07-22-2011, 03:54 AM

There were more than a few ended up with a "Lola Limp".

105angria

07-22-2011, 03:56 AM

a few more would like to see some shots of GM3 chev with its transperent cockpit

Shano

07-22-2011, 04:38 AM

Pukekohe, 1974. NZGP meeting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGPRollingStart1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGPMcRae3-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGPMcRae4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGPGrahamLawrence.jpg

The first 5000 in NZ, actually a Formula A car, The Eisert Chevrolet, driven by Dennis Marwood. It was clear that this formula was utterly spectacular.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/EisertChevrear.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/EisertChevfront.jpg

Shano

07-22-2011, 04:43 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGP5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGPDexterDunlop.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGP12.jpg

McRae goes bang
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/Form5000PukeGPMcRae2.jpg

kiwi285

07-22-2011, 04:54 AM

They were and still are great cars. The hackles on the back of my neck still stand up when a field of these cars accelerate away from the rolling start. Great to see so many of them resident in NZ. Would like to see a re-creation of Graham McRae's M10A or B in the black 'Crown Lynn' colours with the gold # 22 on its flanks.

GD66

07-22-2011, 06:25 AM

Wow ! Good call there, I don't think you'd be alone in wishing to see that again. Grouse !

BTW Isn't that Eagle in the top two pics a USAC car, rather than a Formula A/5000 ?

nigel watts

07-22-2011, 07:18 AM

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Kiwiboss

07-22-2011, 08:27 AM

Graham McRae won the SCCA Continental Grand Prix Series in the USA driving his own MK1 F5000 in 1972, no mean feet i'd say!!

Dale Mathers

GD66

07-22-2011, 09:35 AM

105angria

07-22-2011, 12:19 PM

correct about the USAC car liked the look of it

Murray Maunder

07-22-2011, 10:43 PM

Good set of pix Nigel, that T300 of Frank Gardner's was a mean-looking weapon.... and there's not nearly enogh shots of Surtees in the TS9B.

And let's be honest, if we could've tapped Graham McRae's energy, you could've powered a small town...
We remember, "Cassius"...

Right there GD! He had, for that time, an outspoken nature and the media were quick to quote him. Typically he would make headlines in the rugby-mad sports pages with how he was going to decimate his opposition. Like Cassius, he usually did.

As a driver he was at a very high level, as a constructor he was brilliant. How he did both so well at the same time defies reasoning. He didn't have the small army of guys with him that Bruce McLaren had by that time gathered. He won the F5000/Formula A series both sides of the Atlantic in his own car. The GM from the outset was the car to beat against the McLaren and Lola factories and many other constructors like Eagle. It's great to see plenty of examples of GMs on Historic grids today. Wouldn't it be great to see an M10B in those black and gold Crown Lynn colours - a tribute to him and Tom Clark.

Despite his difficulties later in his life (does anyone have any encouraging news on how he's getting on?) he remains in my mind "Mr Formula 5000". What a great class of racing this is that it is as well supported as it was nearly 40 years ago and the highlight in NZ of top historic meetings.

105angria

07-22-2011, 11:10 PM

How did so many of the cars end up in CHCH ,which is probably were the resurgence of F5000 started I would think ,any BEGG pics anybody ?

nigel watts

07-22-2011, 11:23 PM

Funny how a name brings back memories. When I was a kid in the 50's I was sent off to boarding school. Tom Clark's son [I can't remember his name] was also a boarder. I can't remember what the occasion was but Tom Clark brought his Maserati to the school for a blat up and down the long driveway. We were told by the guards, oops I mean staff, that we we were to stand well back and under no circumstances to cross the driveway. Well I never really listened to what I was told so ran across the road to get a better position and of course got nicked. I was sent off in disgrace to the main building. When I got up to the entrance courtyard I could hear the car screaming up the driveway towards me. Imagine my delight when Tom slowed the car drove around me in a circle and disappeared back down the driveway again. He was so close I could almost reach out and touch the car!! Talk about the best seat in the house. Didn't stop grinning for days!!

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:47 AM

Graeme McRae Winner
Alan Hamilton has a monsterous crash in the Lola T430, now owned by David Abbott in NZ. Garrie Cooper als o has a career ending crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnn6HDhks4E

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:48 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsP3E4ILjMk&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnn6HDhks4E&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:53 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oM70m3QcnA&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:57 AM

Lee hurst and co restore a britsh racing classic lola T142 formula 5000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ_iIVCL_Uc&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:57 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHHNNjQDSA&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 12:59 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q3JUbHAbQk&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 01:01 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeLIJDAyTx8&feature=related

bry3500

07-23-2011, 01:05 AM

THIS PERFORMANCE 4.4 ROVER - LEYLAND ENGINE WAS BUILT BY ROBINSON
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua2a55jzkeI&feature=related

pallmall

07-23-2011, 01:31 AM

A small McRae tribute, some of the GM cars running in current F5000 historic racing.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/100_1657750x554.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/100_1652750x602.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/485750x619.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/307750x521.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/457750x445.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/452750x399.jpg

pallmall

07-23-2011, 01:34 AM

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/293750x433.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/193750x430.jpg

OK it is a Talon, but GM2 design.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/100_1724750x547.jpg

GM9 Can-Am
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/046750x515.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/167750x581.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20McRae%20F5000/249750x412.jpg

pallmall

07-23-2011, 03:43 AM

A Begg Tribute, the F5000 cars built by George Begg and Fred McLean.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/272750x465.jpg

FM2
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/523750x449.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/414750x442.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/305750x538.jpg

FM4
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/320750x511.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/012750x449.jpg

pallmall

07-23-2011, 03:46 AM

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/011750x420.jpg

FM5
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/BeggFM5001750x523.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/324750x537.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/326750x451.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/325750x502.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/203750x430.jpg

pallmall

07-23-2011, 03:48 AM

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/505750x597.jpg

018
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/040750x470.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/043750x442.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/160750x434.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/438750x361.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/1%20Begg%20F5000/316750x430.jpg

105angria

07-23-2011, 06:43 AM

WOW Great selection

nigel watts

07-23-2011, 09:11 AM

Do we have the best F5000 racing in the world today? I reckon we do

2515

nzboss

07-23-2011, 07:47 PM

Shano

07-23-2011, 08:24 PM

Outstanding Nigel, as always.

Jac Mac

07-23-2011, 08:46 PM

Wow! Some great posts guys.
Anyone got anything on the Ford powered Formula 5000's?
From memory, Chris Amon drove a Lotus with a Boss 302.
Allan Moffat may have briefly too?
It's a shame they were'nt allowed to run the Weslake Fords.......
The Forsigrini??--- think thats right spelling was out here with Boss 302 in the day, unusual car, IIRC it did not have antiroll bars. Yes the Weslakes might have helped with a wider torque band, but a set of 1971 AFR 185's would have been better:) How does that song that Cher sang go....If I could wind back time.....

Murray Maunder

07-24-2011, 02:30 AM

Thanks guys, beautiful images of a fantastic class of racing cars. Great to see the evolution of the Begg cars although no sign of the old yellow FM1 slab which started George's F5000 creations.

pallmall

07-24-2011, 03:40 AM

I wonder what happened to the FM1s, I think there were 2 built, Geoff Mardon and Graham McRae drove the first one, and the one I remember as yellow was for Pierre Phillips. The Klopfer book lists them as FM2s. I thought the Doyle car was the FM2, and is the car pictured up above. Maybe I am dreaming as it is possible one of the smaller engined cars was FM1.

Here is a poor photo of the debut of the first FM1(2), still unpainted, that Graham McRae drove at Pukekohe for the first 69/70 Gold Star round, I think he was 5th.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/BeggFM1001750x365.jpg

pallmall

07-24-2011, 03:42 AM

FA Debut at BayPark. December 1968.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA001281x750.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA002258x750.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA003574x750.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA004750x264.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA005750x463.jpg

pallmall

07-24-2011, 03:43 AM

Early NZ F5000.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA006750x518.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/FA007750x461.jpg

pallmall

07-24-2011, 03:46 AM

Some overseas car after arrival for the 1971 Tasman.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/ARracecars1971001719x750.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/ARracecars1971002750x487.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/ARracecars1971003750x401.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/ARracecars1971004750x502.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/ARracecars1971005750x536.jpg

pallmall

07-24-2011, 04:02 AM

While I enjoyed the cars, and some of the racing of F5000 back in the day, I think today's historic F5000 scene is probably more competitive.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/213750x476.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/220750x457.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/221750x502.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/Motor%20Racing%20F5000-%20Sports/222750x455.jpg

Steve Holmes

07-24-2011, 04:49 AM

I tend to agree Gavin. Sometimes we look back on history through rose-tinted glasses. F5000 often produced drawn out races where the chronic unreliability of the cars was often the only uncertainty to the final results. But because the cars were so charismatic, they were often forgiven for many of their downfalls. But seeing an F5000 man-handled at 10/10ths by the likes of Kevin Bartlett or Graham McRea was something special.

nigel watts

07-24-2011, 04:59 AM

F5000 warm up lap - Hampton Downs Jan 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LXtaRhveHA

David McKinney

07-24-2011, 08:54 AM

I wonder what happened to the FM1s, I think there were 2 built, Geoff Mardon and Graham McRae drove the first one, and the one I remember as yellow was for Pierre Phillips. The Klopfer book lists them as FM2s. I thought the Doyle car was the FM2, and is the car pictured up above. Maybe I am dreaming as it is possible one of the smaller engined cars was FM1
I don't think there ever was an FM1 - maybe the sportscar, though the term was never used
One of the works FM2s went to Neil Doyle, the other to Peter Hughes. I think both cars are still around

Rod Grimwood

07-24-2011, 09:27 AM

This site has me digging out boxs that the Mrs thought were gone, told her they would come in handy one day.
Went out with Dave Schollum and his FF, this was a Friday practice at Puke and first time i had seen one of these up close. Not good photos but chances are they were from box brownie or something i snuck off mum.
One thing that has changed, is the Japs invented tyre/room savers and they do the transport job good now.

Rod Grimwood

07-24-2011, 09:28 AM

Another one

timbo61

07-24-2011, 11:48 PM

The McRae GM3 with the perspex cockpit was rebodied into the single seat Can-Am GM9.
They are both great looking cars.

seaqnmac27

07-25-2011, 04:21 AM

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Here are a few from Dads collection. He is on here but has not yet made any comments.

Steve Holmes

07-25-2011, 08:32 PM

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Nigel, these are fantastic photos! I always felt the Lola T300 looked a bit ungainly from certain angles, but quite stunning from other angles. You've certainly caught those cars in their best light. They really look good!

pallmall

07-26-2011, 10:44 PM

One of the early F5000 historic meets at Pukekohe with F5000, F3000, FHolden, Can Am, and a Chev powered McLaren Indycar.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/f5000003750x556.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/f5000002750x599.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/f5000001750x434.jpg

pallmall

07-26-2011, 10:48 PM

A few Lolas running in current historic F5000.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/387750x407.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/291750x457.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/261750x587.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/210750x472.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/186750x515.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/100_1726750x510.jpg

pallmall

07-26-2011, 10:53 PM

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/100_1714750x527.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/100_1708750x411.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/047750x635.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/189750x355.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/100_1712750x401.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/Checraft/F5000%20II/100_1713750x623.jpg

Steve Holmes

08-01-2011, 10:56 PM

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Steve Holmes

08-01-2011, 11:02 PM

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Steve Holmes

08-01-2011, 11:08 PM

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Steve Holmes

08-01-2011, 11:12 PM

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Steve Holmes

08-01-2011, 11:16 PM

The photos from the last five posts were all sent to me by Dale Mathers, who was given a bunch of old photos many years ago by his good mate Peter Hanna.

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pallmall

08-02-2011, 05:44 AM

Cool photos. lots of memories there. Thanks Steve and Dale.

bigbanger

08-02-2011, 06:24 AM

The Begg 018, absolutely the best looking F5000 ever. IMHO.

Went ok with Jim Murdoch as well.

kiwi285

08-02-2011, 08:41 PM

Thanks Dale and Steve for posting these. There are some great shots there that bring back some great memories.

Steve Holmes

08-03-2011, 07:14 AM

257325742575257625772578

Here are a few from Dads collection. He is on here but has not yet made any comments.

These are neat pics. What sort of car is the red/white/blue #23?

Steve Holmes

08-03-2011, 07:27 AM

The Begg 018, absolutely the best looking F5000 ever. IMHO.

Went ok with Jim Murdoch as well.

Yeah, I agree a great looking car. George Begg's book "When The Engine Roars" paints a great picture of the design and build of these cars, and how Murdoch burnt himself out in building this car. Imagine how well it could have gone if he were in full health.

To my mind one of the best looking of all F5000s was this Begg FM5, which I think was Allan McCullys car? Gavins photo below captures the lines of the car perfectly. Does this car still have the Robin Officer alloy body?

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David McKinney

08-03-2011, 07:55 AM

These are neat pics. What sort of car is the red/white/blue #23?

Bill Simpson's Eagle

stubuchanan

08-03-2011, 11:43 AM

It looks prettier from this end. Practice Pukekohe 1970. Sorry about the pockmarked colour slide.

thunder427

08-03-2011, 03:15 PM

It looks prettier from this end. Practice Pukekohe 1970. Sorry about the pockmarked colour slide.

...the Bill Simpson of 'Simpson' Seat belts/Race suits/Helmets Fame!!!!????????.............If the answer is Yes!...(are you allowed to answer your own Questions?)....my next Quesion is, Have you read his book ,Its an absoulute 'Must Read'....................Hey!!! Steve, How about a 'book review'thread??????????......'Books I've read in the bog"!!.............or Something!!............regards thunder427/MJ:o:o:p;)

David McKinney

08-03-2011, 08:08 PM

The answer to the first question is Yes

My answer to the second question is No:)

Rod Grimwood

08-03-2011, 08:24 PM

Thunder427, the "Books i've read in the bog" will be a bloody big thread.

Steve Holmes

08-03-2011, 08:31 PM

I only read magazines in the bog.

TonyG

08-20-2011, 11:31 AM

Not sure what year but at Pukekohe.
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/Begg018sm.jpg

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/TGPhotography/Scanned%20Images/img032.jpg

kiwi285

08-21-2011, 05:50 AM

http://i52.tinypic.com/m7ar0i.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/nbcgvb.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2z6rqqo.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/29z7s5f.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/fm3xxc.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/vrztp3.jpg

kiwi285

08-21-2011, 05:58 AM

http://i52.tinypic.com/2uongoo.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/33xhp8g.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/10y2dls.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/517gc5.jpg

kiwi285

08-21-2011, 10:27 PM

http://i56.tinypic.com/63u89j.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/34iqpzt.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/nfi2hw.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/4g5cvs.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2d161if.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2wbw082.jpg

kiwi285

08-22-2011, 05:26 AM

http://i52.tinypic.com/25z32bq.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/1427nfr.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/15qdksw.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2uif53l.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/6f34tu.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/2u5vo6x.jpg

kiwi285

08-22-2011, 05:38 AM

http://i56.tinypic.com/bdwtw9.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/33dbb4z.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2lwnix5.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/pojkn.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/dn28u8.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/htxtfn.jpg

Steve Holmes

09-01-2011, 11:21 PM

This is brilliant, though the sound is terrible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLhvtGviI7Q

bry3500

10-05-2011, 07:28 AM

THE WHOLE BOOK IS AVAILABLE ONLINE!!!!!!
http://books.google.com/books?id=suthR2oHxdUC&lpg=PA126&dq=%22max%20stewart%22&num=4&client=internal-uds&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=%22max%20stewart%22&f=false

Shano

10-05-2011, 07:32 PM

Well done that man.

Eagle512

10-13-2011, 01:53 AM

Simpson Eagle today. Originally AIR Team (Crean/Garner) campaigned by Davey Jordan in US and Canada. Leased to Bill Simpson for Tasman.

2010 Charity Challenge event. Final round of the US F5000 Revival series. Engine builder Bob Slade in white T-Shirt.

Steve Holmes

10-13-2011, 02:37 AM

Rod Grimwood

10-13-2011, 05:45 AM

More questions. Bob Slade, the same as the Mustang driver from along time ago?

nzboss

10-13-2011, 06:42 AM

Yes! He had the ex Kevin Haig etc '67 Mustang before Rob Kennard, running it in OSCA.
The last of Bob I remember hearing, he was building CART/IRL engines for Micheal Andretti years ago.

Eagle512

10-16-2011, 03:03 PM

Eagle512, many thanks for posting. What a stunning car. It looks magnificent. The Bob Slade pictured, is he an ex-pat Kiwi? Who were the AIR team? Was this James Garners American International Racing team?

Yes, exactly the same Bob Slade. Great guy. Bob helped me rebuild/refresh the car and built the engine for me. It is one STOUT piece. I've seen photos and heard the stories of his days racing Mustangs.

The AIR Team was James Garner (actor) John Crean (Fleetwood Motorhomes). Originally they were to run Surtees TS5's but the rear uprights (formed sheet) collapsed in testing and they switched to Eagles. Drivers were to include David Hobbs but they ran Davey Jordan and Scooter Patrick. Garner exited AIR somewhere around August of '69 to go his own way. Originally they had AMC engines as Garner was a spokesman for AMC.

Eagle512

10-16-2011, 03:17 PM

Here's a photo of the 5.0L Chev in the "Simpson" Eagle. Lucas/MacKay injection, SuperMagII magneto. No modern electronics or rev limiters. 542hp. 8000rpm. Bob builds vintage race engines of all types with a specialty in Cosworth.

Steve Holmes

10-17-2011, 01:22 AM

Wow, small world! Thanks for that info on Bob Slade.

You've certainly done a magnificent job with that car. You must be very proud.

Re Garner, did he have any motorsport involvement after leaving AIR in '69? I know he ran Corvettes at one stage, but I'm unsure if this was with AIR, or after he left? He ran a pair of Lola T70 MkIIIs in early '68 too.

Interesting he was connected with AMC. Penske later had an AMC contract, and among their projects, tried F5000 with an AMC motor in the back of a Lola T330. Whether due to Donohue being such a perfectionist, that car never performed to his liking, and after trying everything he could think of to make the car handle, eventually conceded that the extra weight of the AMC motor did have an affect on handling.

HDonaldCapps

10-21-2011, 10:41 AM

Eagle512

10-21-2011, 01:45 PM

There are several web-sites about James Garners racing involvement. http://www.airl88.com/ details the Gulstrand Corvettes. Also, after his partnership in AIR Garner ran Scooter Patrick in Formula/A - 5000. He made a movie about their season The Racing Scene, youtub short http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOgml5O5SM I believe he also ran a T70 for Dave Jordan (Eagle 512 driver),Lothar Motschenbacher, Ed Leslie, and Scooter Patrick at Daytona. As for the AMC motor, I have the build sheet for the original that went into the AIR Eagle. It was an AMC block with Chevy internals.

Howard Wood

10-21-2011, 10:57 PM

[QUOTE=HDonaldCapps;6345]I am surprised to an extent that no one has mentioned Allen Brown's excellent site --

Thought it interesting that a discussion of F5000 began with a few photographs of a USAC Championship car, an Eagle, rather than a pukka F5000 machine.

Liked the notion of F/A or F5000 from the beginning, but its last season or so in the US was a bit painful to watch at times. "

Donald,

In answer to your pertinent questions:

Allen Brown's oldracingcars.com has certainly been mentioned in the Formula Pacific thread and is an amazing resource.

In NZ, Formula A/ 5000 began as a one off promotion by the somewhat anti establishment promoters of Bay Park and the earliest cobbled together fields here (and thus photographs) were an oddball mix of machines and it was only when F5000 became the official premier single seater class here that the field consisted of pukka F5000 cars, albeit with the occasional F2 car thrown in.

I suspect the demise of F5000 here and elsewhere had much to do with a fundamental flaw in the "stock block" concept, as used at the time in both F5000 and F2. Introduced to keep costs under control, as engine builders found ways to extract more and more power from the stock block, perversely, costs spiraled out of control as engine reliabilty declined. In European F2, the rules were changed to allow pure race engines, thus as an example, Brian Hart could build the Hart 420R using all the leasons learnt from the ubiquitous Ford block with none of its limitations.

In NZ a combination of reduced fields due to rising engine costs with even more depleted numbers of finishers due to unreliability lead to the final series being farcical.

Steve Holmes

10-22-2011, 01:14 AM

I am surprised to an extent that no one has mentioned Allen Brown's excellent site -- OldRacingCars.Com (http://www.oldracingcars.com/) -- during what little discussion there has been on this thread. Lots and lots of "Eye Candy" but little substance for the most part.

Thought it interesting that a discussion of F5000 began with a few photographs of a USAC Championship car, an Eagle, rather than a pukka F5000 machine.

Liked the notion of F/A or F5000 from the beginning, but its last season or so in the US was a bit painful to watch at times. The US series was as much of a victim of the declining fortunes of the SCCA as the original Can-Am and Trans-Am were, the club's governors wanting to return to the nostalgic past when it was an amateur organization and run like a gent's club. Its attempt to revive "Can-Am" by putting bodies on the F5000 cars was an interesting one, but missed the mark by a wide margin. The IMSA Camel GT series was now the game in town and the SCCA simply could not find a means to truly compete with it. The departure of USAC from F5000 after the 1976 season was another factor, with USAC having its own problems to deal with at the moment.

Just an observation.

Further to Howards excellent post above, I wrote a very brief history on the class back when this forum was still new, in May, although that thread dried up pretty quickly: http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthread.php?80-1978-Australian-Grand-Prix-For-Formula-5000-Cars

There seem to be quite a few theories as to why the formula failed, cost being the most obvious which was probably more the case in NZ. But I wonder also if the SCCA switching to the centre-seat Can-Am formula also had a negative flow-on effect to other countries as it dried up the chassis supply. Afterall, this formula was almost exclusively based on teams being able to purchase an engine and chassis and go racing, as most didn't have the capacity to build their own chassis'. It survived on the ability to assemble a field made up of customer cars.

Steve Holmes

10-22-2011, 01:17 AM

David McKinney

10-22-2011, 10:19 AM

There seem to be quite a few theories as to why the formula failed, cost being the most obvious which was probably more the case in NZ. But I wonder also if the SCCA switching to the centre-seat Can-Am formula also had a negative flow-on effect to other countries as it dried up the chassis supply
Didn't the Can-Am switch come after F5000 died in NZ? In any case, it was English builders who supplied most of the F5000 chassis

I think the formula died in NZ largely because its lifespan coincided with enormous growth in saloon racing, and new saloon categories, which appealed to spectators more. Any available sponsorship money went increasingly to saloon operations, thus depriving the once-drawcard single-seater series of funding. And, of course, the promotional establishment was insufficiently far-sighted to do anything about promoting 5000 racing as much as it could have

Steve Holmes

10-23-2011, 11:47 PM

Yes David, agreed. F5000 in NZ was on its way out as the SCCA switched to the new Can-Am formula. The last year for the formula in the US was 1976. In fact, by the time the SCCA made the change the formula was all but dead in the UK too. Now that I think about it, Australia would have been the only country affected by this. The English builders did supply most of the chassis', but Lola was dominant here, and they would have switched to building centre seat Can-Am cars, even though the early examples were really modified F5000s.

Saloon racing was certainly on the up and up by the early 70s in NZ, although in reality saloon car racing was also suffering with thin grids and lack of money. NZ came to rely heavily on importing overseas teams for the international events, and Bay Park regularly imported international teams for their bigger events, but really this class was suffering, and this eventually showed when it was canned following the 1977 season. Only two cars contested the entire 1977 NZ Saloon Car Championship! All in all, the mid-70s were probably not a good time for NZ motorsport. Though in saying that, the mid-70s were a difficult time in many countries.

But the promotion and magazine coverage at this time still suggested open wheeler racing was very much considered the premier form of racing in NZ.

HDonaldCapps

10-24-2011, 02:06 AM

Not to show my considerable lack of knowledge or familiarity with Racing Down Under, but it obvious that it was literally a very different world than that of US F/A & F/5000 racing, even if there were various connections.

In the US, there were several factors that seemed to lead to the demise of F/5000, the withdrawal of USAC after its agreement with the SCCA to con-sanction the series ended in 1976 and USAC decided to not renew or adopt a similar program for a road racing series of its own. There were also concerns expressed by the promoters regarding the series, the lack of spectators buying tickets being among them as well as questions as to what next given the loss of USAC and any possible series sponsorship being a big question mark.

Within the SCCA, there was still a strong sense of yearning, a nostalgia, for the days of the old Can-Am, many thinking that the club should return to sports car racing and get away from the formula cars. The compromise was to clothe the F/5000 in sports-car-like bodywork, revive the Can-Am name. Many assumed that this would be the ticket to success, a success greatly needed by the SCCA since IMSA had largely usurped its position in professional sports car racing in the US with the Camel GT and other series, the Trans Am also being on life support at the moment.

Somewhere buried in my files is an interview I did with Cameron Argetsinger regarding this issue, he being the executive director (or some similar title) for SCCA pro racing at that time. The meeting held towards the end of of the 1976 season to discuss the future of the formula made it clear that the cost-benefit analyses for all involved was not one that favored the current direction in which things were headed. Turning the F/5000 machines into "Can-Am" cars seemed to be the best of the options that seemed available at the time. That change was both needed and desired by those involved carried the day. Argetsinger made it clear that it was not one or two things that "killed" F/5000 in the US, but rather a combination of factors and also that US racing overall -- with the possible exception of IMSA and maybe NASCAR Winston Cup -- was in something of the doldrums at that moment.

On a strictly person note, it was clear that US F/5000 was in serious trouble as early as the 1974 season. Although the 1975 seemed to go well, it merely flattered to deceive, the next season, 1976, showing all the signs of a series beginning to if not collapse, at least not long for this world. I thought that the introduction of qualifying heats during the 1973 season was a step in the wrong direction. Plus, the purse monies seemed not to be commensurate with the investments required to compete. In truth, the F/B/Atlantic races often tended to be better. To me, the series seemed to lose its way by some point in 1974 and definitely by 1975. As someone who really liked the F/5000 series from its inception, this was a bit dismaying. Wandering through the paddocks and observing as well as talking with various folks involved with the series did not boost my confidence in its long-term survival. I was not surprised with the series essentially folded and reincarnated itself as Can-Am in 1976. In truth, I just never seemed to take to the new Can-Am series, never really paying it all that much attention after the first season or so. I will admit to being surprised it lasted as long as it did, something I would never have imagined.

In some ways, what may have killed US F/5000 was the success of IMSA and the inability of the SCCA to find a countermeasure to the success of John Bishop's approach to racing, which was quite different than that of the SCCA: IMSA made money while the SCCA pro series struggled to minimize its losses.

At any rate, just some food for thought on this topic.

Steve Holmes

10-25-2011, 01:55 AM

Thats an excellent post Don. Your point about the length in which the single-seat Can-Am survived is a good one. I think it may have actually survived longer than F5000?

Was there an undercurrent within the SCCA to return to amateur racing, from which it originally grew?

Isn't it amazing to compare the SCCA and where it was in 1970, and where it found itself just 5 years later. In 1970 they had the Can-Am (the original and proper Can-Am), Trans-Am, and F5000. The Trans-Am in particular was enjoying good manufacturer support in 1970. The Can-Am had McLaren, Lola, BRM, Shadow, Chaparral, and March involvement. But things were very different by 1975. Granted, they were probably victims of the times as they were by their own decisions, the ponycar market had completely fallen away, and the world was in the midst of an oil crisis.

Michael Clark

10-27-2011, 09:33 AM

By the time most of the field were in Lola 330/332s, some of the appeal had gone, but also the closeness of the racing. Arguably a similar thing happened with F.Atlantic/Pacific - when it was Ralt RT1s, Chevrons B34/39s and March 76B/77Bs - racing was much closer than when everyone got RT4s - wasn't it?

Both F5000 and F.Atlantic started with multiple constructors - and both prospered. In time, both became dominated by one-make, or a small handful at the most, and the categories petered out - coincidence?

There is possibly something much simpler. How much horsepower did a decent SBC spit out in 1969/70 - 430/450? By 1973-75 they had in excess of 520 - and the fields spread out more and more. A bit like Can-Am - the faster they got because of more power, the quicker the spectacle diminished.

Steve Holmes

10-29-2011, 01:57 AM

Thinking about it now, you have a good point Michael. You'd think that with most of the cars being similar makes/models, the racing would be closer, but that often wasn't the case.

I think F5000 was forgiven a lot and I think peoples memories of it now are often viewed through rose-tinted glasses, because the cars themselves were so charismatic. But often the racing was drawn out and processional, with little overtaking after the first few laps, and the only question mark over the eventual race winner was whether his car could reach the finish or not.

Michael Clark

11-01-2011, 10:42 AM

The 5000s are running at Manfeild next weekend - i.e. the 12th/13th and are at Ruapuna this weekend for the Lady Wigram.

Kenny will be debuting his T332 - I'm looking forward to seeing the livery. It isn't his 1974-77 car but I know he has been tempted to turn it out in red - I wonder if he'll put La Valise Travel stickers over it..

Steve Holmes

11-01-2011, 08:30 PM

It seems likely Michael, I think he ran La Valise stickers on his Matich many years ago didn't he?

HDonaldCapps

11-02-2011, 12:22 AM

I think F5000 was forgiven a lot and I think peoples memories of it now are often viewed through rose-tinted glasses, because the cars themselves were so charismatic. But often the racing was drawn out and processional, with little overtaking after the first few laps, and the only question mark over the eventual race winner was whether his car could reach the finish or not.

One could suggest that this applies equally to about any type of automobile racing, present as well as past.

Eagle512

11-03-2011, 03:54 PM

One of my favorite in-car videos. Kenny Smith at Pukekohe. Watch the hands. Listen to the wheelspin and throttle application just on the verge. Never give up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhdglIyKLNE

Steve Holmes

11-08-2011, 12:31 AM

Hey thats great! Thanks for posting. Why did the T400 and T430 not enjoy the same popularity among teams as the T330/T332?

Eagle512

11-11-2011, 06:08 AM

kiwi285

11-13-2011, 05:20 AM

Here are some shots from Ruapuna last weekend

http://i40.tinypic.com/30ucvmd.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/13zx18p.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/33lpbvr.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2gvu7hh.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/t6cf2o.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/e6esev.jpg

Steve Holmes

11-15-2011, 12:56 AM

I could be wrong and should be corrected ;) I heard that the T400's rising rate suspension was extremely difficult to dial in (pitch sensitive?). There were stories of T332 suspension being adapted/grafted to the T400. In Europe the T400's did ok. In the US the top teams reverted to the 332's and so (I suspect) development on the T400's suffered.

Thanks. Yes that was my understanding too. It seemed that the T400s were potentially faster, but that there was a much smaller window to get the set-up right with them. At least thats always been my limited understanding of them. Kevin Bartlett joined this forum recently. I was hoping he might jump in here and give us some first hand insight into the differences, as he raced both at the highest level during the '70s.

Steve Holmes

11-17-2011, 12:04 AM

I hear there was a big shunt at Manfeild (NZ) in the F5000 race last weekend. Was everyone OK?

Eagle512

11-17-2011, 02:44 AM

HISTORIC RACING CLUB/NZ FORMULA 5000 ASSOCIATION
Press release
For immediate release

* 2011/12 MSC New Zealand F5000 Tasman Cup Revival Series
Rnd 2
Solid Gold MG Classic meeting
Manfeild
Feilding
Sat-Sun
Nov 12-13
2011

EVENT REPORT

13-11-11

ROSS WINS MSC FEATURE AFTER SMITH AND ESTERER SIDELINED EARLIER BY STARTLINE CRASH

Dunedin driver Steve Ross led home a McRae GM1 1-2-3 in the feature McLaren Cup Formula Libre Grand Prix at the second round of the 2011/12 MSC NZ F5000 Tasman Cup Revival Series at Feilding's Manfeild circuit today (Sunday) after pace-setters Ken Smith and Jay Esterer were sidelined earlier in a spectacular startline crash.

Smith proved the value of his freshly rebuilt Lola T332 on Saturday, pipping Rnd 1 winner Esterer (McRae GM1) in qualifying before going on to win the first race. But the pair got no further than the rolling start in the second race of the weekend this (Sunday) morning thanks to a shower of rain which swept across the Manawatu circuit as the MSC field was lining up for the rolling start.

The start lights had just gone out to signal the start of the race when Smith's car snapped hard left on the wet track, clipping fellow front row starter Jay Esterer's MacRae GM1 before hitting the concrete pit (outside) wall hard.

Esterer's car also hit the pit wall and came to a stop as the field streamed past but Smith's car glanced off it (the pit wall) and careered back across the track before coming to rest on the grass strip between the track and the inside wall.

Roger Williams, who started the race behind Esterer, missed the Canadian's car but was himself hit from behind by one of the other cars and his Lola T332 ended up jammed against the inside wall with a broken left front wheel and suspension componentry.

Fellow Lola T332 driver Russell Greer also ended up against the pit wall, but though his car spun 180 degrees to face the way it was originally coming the only damage was to a front upright.

The race was immediately stopped then cancelled to allow track workers to remove the cars and the MSC field to re-group for the longer McLaren Cup Formula Libre feature later in the day.

Incredibly, the accident was the biggest Smith can remember - and that's going back over 54 consecutive seasons of national level racing for the 70-year-old.

"It was a biggie, alright,"said the four-time Lady Wigram Trophy and three-time New Zealand Grand Prix winner whose only injury was a tweaked left ankle caused when his car first hit the wall. "I've never had one like that before.

"It was wet and the track was greasy and when I floored it at the start she just snapped sideways," he said. "There was nothing I could do. I could see the wall coming up and I knew I was going to go in hard."

Though he agreed it was extremely fortunate that neither he nor anyone else was injured in the accident Smith said that it was hard to see his new car so badly damaged so early in his time with it.

"That's definitely the toughest bit, particularly knowing the time and effort Barry Miller (Smith's crew chief) has put in since we bought it."

In the absence of Smith, Esterer and Roger Williams the 15-lap McLaren Cup feature produced two entertaining three-car battles.

The first involved pole-sitter Stu Lush and fellow McRae GM1 drivers Steve Ross and Aaron Burson with Ross passing Lush for the lead at Turn 1 and dictating the pace from that point. Both Lush and Burson got close at times, but not quite close enough to launch an attack on Ross' lead.

"Yep," said Ross, "it was one of those races that was going to be won or lost on the first lap. It hasn't been the best weekend for me for one reason or another but this was a brilliant way to end it."

In what turned out to be a something of a race of attrition, visiting UK driver Greg Thornton (Chevron B24) earned his best result of his 2011/12 MSC series campaign so far with fourth after spending the early laps working his way past Brett Willis (Lola T330) and Sefton Gibb (Lola T332).

Willis made the initial running after Gibb admitted he messed up the start, however Willis ended up in the pits just after the half way point of the race with gear selection problems and Gibb stopped on the last lap when his car ran out of petrol.

"We've changed the fuel system since we last ran here and didn't quite have enough for the full 15 laps, "Gibb explained.

Russell Greer, who managed to repair the damage to his Lola T332 after the morning's start-line accident was next home in fifth place followed by Shayne Windelburn in fellow Aucklander John MacKinlay's March 73A/2 with Aaron Burson's father Peter seventh in his McRae GM1 and Dave Arrowsmith (Lotus 70) the first of the Class A category (for older model cars) runners to cross the line in eighths.

Series newcomer David Banks from Auckland (Talon MR1) was ninth and local driver Tim Rush (Begg FM4) tenth.

Race 2 (8 laps)
canceled

Race 1 (8 lap)
This was the race that Smith proved just how quick his new T332 was, converting the pole position he set in qualifying earlier in the day to a 10.79 second lead over Jay Esterer (who, in his defence, had a problem holding his car in third gear) with Roger Williams and Stu Lush third and fourth respectively.

Lush was the big surprise in qualifying, setting the third quickest time to split Esterer and Williams with Steve Ross fifth and Sefton Gibb sixth.

Lush retained his speed in the race, crossing the finish line fourth between Williams and Ross.

It was behind them that the real battle raged, however, with Gibb, Greg Thornton and Aaron Burson entertaining the large crowd with a race-long battle for sixth place only finally resolved - in Gibb's favour from Thornton, Burson - and a catching Brett Willis - on the line.

The MSC F5000 Tasman Cup Revival Series is organised and run with the support of sponsors MSC, NZ Express Transport, Bonney's Specialized Bulk Transport, Mobil Lubricants, Pacifica, Smith & Davies, Avon Tyres and Exide.

Ends

CAPTIONS
The MSC NZ F5000 Tasman Cup Revival Series field streaming down Manfeild's back straight immediately before the startline shunt at the beginning of the second race which claimed the cars of front row starters Ken Smith and Jay Esterer, and second row starter Roger Williams. Steve Ross leading the field in the feature race later in the day. Photo credit: Fast Company/Alex Mitchell

2010/11 MSC New Zealand F5000 Tasman Cup Revival Series
Rnd 2 Solid Gold MG Classic meeting Manfeild Sat-Sun Nov 12-13
Qualifying
1. Ken Smith (Lola T3232) 1.02.71
2. Jay Esterer (McRae GM1) 1.02.93
3. Stuart Lush (McRae GM1) 1.03.93
4. Roger Williams (Lola T332) 1.03.95
5. Steve Ross (McRae GM1) 1.04.13
6. Sefton Gibb (Lola T332) 1.05.33

Race 1 (8 laps)
1. Ken Smith
2. Jay Esterer +10.79
3. Roger Williams +11.25
4. Stuart Lush +14.01
5. Steve Ross +15.36
6. Sefton Gibb +25.31
7. Greg Thornton (Chevron B24) +25.71
8. Aaron Burson (McRae GM1) +26.43
9. Brett Willis (Lola T330) +29.66

Race 2 (8 laps)
Cancelled

Race 3 (15 laps)
1. Steve Ross 16.18.60
2. Stu Lush +0.70
3. Aaron Burson +6.88
4. Greg Thornton +20.23
5. Russell Greer +42.48
6. Shayne Windelburn +64.90
7. Peter Burson +68.93
8. Dave Arrowsmith +70.89
9. David Banks +1 lap
10. Tim Rush +1 lap
dnf Sefton Gibb, Brett Willis.

Calendar
Rnd 1: Nov 05/06 2011 Wigram Revival meeting, Powerbuilt Tools Raceway @ Ruapuna Park Christchurch
Rnd 2: Nov 12-13 2011 MG Classic Manfeild Feilding
Rnd 3: Jan 21-22 2012 NZ Festival of Motor Racing - BMW meeting x 1 Hampton Downs Auckland
Rnd 4: Jan 28-29 2012 NZ Festival of Motor Racing - BMW meeting x 2 Hampton Downs Auckland
Rnd 5: Feb 04/05 2012 Skope Classic meeting Powerbuilt Tools Raceway @ Ruapuna Park Christchurch
Rnd 6: March 09-11 2012 Phillip Island Classic meeting Phillip Island Victoria Australia

Steve Holmes

11-17-2011, 03:03 AM

Thanks for that Eagle. A nasty crash, and its never good to see these beautiful cars getting damaged. Sounds like Kenny Smith has a broken foot. Amazing how quickly these things can happen. There is some amateur footage here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150354345575163

Other than the crash, looks like it was a good weekend of racing and a good turnout of cars.

Eagle512

11-20-2011, 08:12 PM

Here's a shot of the Gurney Eagle, brand new, rolling out of the Gurney shop. Lots of other period photos on the website as well.

http://www.riversideinternational.org/mm/photomenu/drivers/j/jordan_dave/jordan_davey_dj_viewing36.html

105angria

11-21-2011, 02:11 AM

Pic of Lola

David McKinney

11-21-2011, 11:54 AM

Who? What? Where? When?
The POSB decals suggest it was running in an NZ Gold Star round, but it's not ringing any bells

RogerH

11-21-2011, 06:35 PM

Who? What? Where? When?
The POSB decals suggest it was running in an NZ Gold Star round, but it's not ringing any bells

It was Kenny's crash at Manfield a couple of weekends ago. He had done his Lola up in the old La Valise Travel colour scheme so I suppose to keep the period theme correct he got some replica POSB decals made up.

David McKinney

11-21-2011, 07:54 PM

Of course - my brain was back in the '70s...

Michael Clark

11-22-2011, 08:19 AM

I spotted the POSB decal as Kenny was showing me over the car on the Friday - when I used words like 'Kenny it is beautiful - maybe even too good to race...'

He told me he had an old POSB decal and had some new ones made up.

GD66

11-22-2011, 10:49 AM

Dagnab it ! The car looks quite badly mashed...and now the little bloke's got the Lola Limp...

Steve Holmes

11-24-2011, 12:12 AM

I understand Jay Esterers McRae is quite badly damaged too?

bry3500

12-28-2011, 01:23 AM

Message

kiwi285

12-28-2011, 03:45 AM

Is there a better way !!!!

The BMW Festival looks to have a great line up of these cars. Maybe it could become the world's best F5000 racing series with the overseas drivers coming out again this year. A few more of the Aussies would have been welcome, although I believe that the field size is at maximum allowable size.

bry3500

12-31-2011, 01:41 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWIOkka80bg&feature=BFa&list=WLDC955323F748047F&lf=mh_lolz

bry3500

01-04-2012, 06:06 AM

From Bathurst Program

Eagle512

01-08-2012, 06:27 PM

I understand Jay Esterers McRae is quite badly damaged too?

Steve,
Yes it was but he's brought his other GM1 over from Canada. I'm going to say (having seen the gearbox through many corners) it's equally as fast as the one he lost at Feilding.

There are 35+ 5000's entered for the NZ Festival of Motor Racing. Drivers from North America are Jay Esterer, Hamish Somerville, Seb Coppola, Eric Haga, and Harin DeSilva.

Seb heads up the US F5000 Association, stop and say hello if you get a chance!
Steve Davis
Eagle #512

Press Release:

http://f5000.webdesign.net.nz/?id=243

Steve Holmes

01-09-2012, 05:35 AM

Hey thanks for that info Eagle. I hope the damaged car is repairable though, given enough time and money?

Eagle512

01-10-2012, 01:10 AM

Hey thanks for that info Eagle. I hope the damaged car is repairable though, given enough time and money?

I think it was just the time that ran out for this event.

Racefan

01-10-2012, 10:00 PM

Check out this link http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=GCIXH23IiQsC&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=morand+f5000+engines&source=bl&ots=n80dDgKJr-&sig=ZgDP5raFkviug2LFcBhyIAS6jUU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yKUMT9rxGufdmAX2me2KBg&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=morand%20f5000%20engines&f=false

timbo61

01-10-2012, 10:34 PM

There is also a book by wolfgang for F5000 in Australia and NZ.

Try this link. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=suthR2oHxdUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

timbo61

01-10-2012, 10:40 PM

And for that matter, one for the USA as well.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=1KZE3Ou_Q84C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

It seems Wolfgang has his priorities just right.

Racefan

01-10-2012, 10:52 PM

Thanks timbo61 just searched on amazon uk these books are available

Eagle512

01-11-2012, 01:20 AM

And you might like this article in Road & Track as well

http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/motorsports/formula-5000-the-secret-series

bry3500

02-06-2012, 05:12 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YNuM4-KgaA&feature=g-u-u&context=G2c450bbFUAAAAAAABAA

Bondy

02-06-2012, 10:53 PM

Not sure if any of you guys have seen these yet but here is the first of what will be a decent collection. Other cars will include Matich A50, A51 and A53. They are produced by Classic Carlectables in 1:18 scale.

6089

6090

6091

Steve Holmes

02-09-2012, 10:48 PM

Bondy, I've seen that model advertised. It looks incredible. I'm looking forward to seeing what other T332 versions are released as well.

rogered

02-10-2012, 01:45 AM

For anybody who is a little more "Flush" with cash
The davison family have the actual car for sale in aust.

Bondy

02-12-2012, 11:07 PM

For anybody who is a little more "Flush" with cash
The davison family have the actual car for sale in aust.

The Davison's have HU34 which was put into service after HU61 was wrecked at Surfers Paradise. The model is based on HU61.

Steve Holmes

02-13-2012, 07:24 AM

What was the difference between the two cars Bondy?

Bondy

02-13-2012, 10:44 PM

Steve, i was only a young fella ;) but i know HU34 had the earlier air scoop like how the Davison's present it today. The bottom of the side pods were in the aluminium colour on HU34 and the Model which is HU61 is all white. HU61 had front brake ducts HU34 did'nt and there seems to be quite a few signage differences.

Steve Holmes

02-14-2012, 11:45 PM

markec

02-15-2012, 02:43 AM

http://www.britishracecar.com/JimStengel-McRae-GM1.htm
If you have an interest in F5000

Bondy

02-15-2012, 02:57 AM

Thanks Bondy, so when did HU61 get wrecked? Their ad says HU34 was raced by Jon Davison from 1978, so was HU61 wrecked in 77?

http://www.my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/1/k/lola/id/3349/Default.aspx

Steve HU61 was wrecked February 1977, Davo actually raced HU34 in the 1977 Gold Star Series, winning the Calder round iirc..

Rod Grimwood

02-15-2012, 03:39 AM

Here are a couple more old shots taken by a then keen young fella with his own little camera. I actually bumped into him at Hampton Festival and he said he had some old photos. he sent them to me and I will post them on threads and may even start a thread for them and any similar shots taken by amatuers with ordinary gear. It is all good.

Steve Holmes

02-15-2012, 03:49 AM

Steve HU61 was wrecked February 1977, Davo actually raced HU34 in the 1977 Gold Star Series, winning the Calder round iirc..

Thanks Bondy.

Steve Holmes

02-15-2012, 03:49 AM

Rod Grimwood

02-15-2012, 04:00 AM

I also have a photo of Grable hopping into the car on the front straight, so I think it was big promotion. Will post some more if i can get them to come out.

Shano

02-15-2012, 04:06 AM

The No 5 car is what was billed as the Eisert Chevrolet "Formula A" car. I thought Ida died and gonto heaven when I saw the thing at Puke.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/EisertChevrear.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/benderboat/Formula%205000/EisertChevfront.jpg

Rod Grimwood

02-15-2012, 04:09 AM

The date on back say's Ron Grable Spectre HR-1 Bay Park 26/12/68 I can remember them running but did not realise it was around then. Time goes by, and here we are playing with them again, so good.

pallmall

02-15-2012, 10:52 AM

Spectre - Katipo, you have to wonder if there is a connection?

105angria

02-16-2012, 11:40 PM

real thing

driftwood

02-17-2012, 10:23 PM

I saw this car in 2000 in adelaide shop covered in dust
owner now wants large $ on it
plenty of F5000 cars around for less
never been my cup of tea a nice F2 car does the business easier for less$$ and for similar $$ you can have an F1 car

Rod Grimwood

02-18-2012, 09:00 AM

Driftwood, as before, get down here and watch,listen, and learn. And 30 odd cars on grid sometimes. Yep F2 are neat and sound good, but not many around or the guy's wear different clothes and hair designs. F5000 put a real engine up your shoulder blades. Ask Greg Murphy what he thinks of them (hope we do not have to explain who Greg Murphy is). Agree some people have put silly $s on some cars but there are reasonable ones around, you get this with anything thats become a favorite and sort after thing.

Rod Grimwood

02-18-2012, 11:02 PM

Found these tucked away in little box, not the best but taken with little plastic camera back then. Note the Japs did not invent the tyre saver.
Also found in the same box from a even older camera a photo of my first ever comp. car. Amazing

Rod Grimwood

02-18-2012, 11:04 PM

Last one

driftwood

02-18-2012, 11:09 PM

Ive seen the cars run in UK when the kiwis came here
They didn't float my boat enough to ever want to own one
i could have bought any running F5000 car in 1999 2000/01 for sub £50k now they want 100 plus
In Oz & NZ you never had international series from up north except F5000 & then atlantic which is why you guys have plumped for these cars today.
Chevy cheap power & easy and economical to rebuild over F1 DFV and probably a BDA

You have 3 million people in NZ, Oz has population equal to London so its logical that we have a lot more people, categories, dates and venues to race cars and we get major date clashes so car owners with F5000 that own other cars can often be spread around and grids thin.
NZ has adopted F5000 as its primary category in historics and you get all the cars out at the 3 January festival events so it looks spectacular
I remember watching 30 car grids of Historic F1 and F2 cars but the economic climate over the last 4 years has meant the F1 grids are halved and the 1600 & 2 litre F2 grids have merged
Owning an F1 car will always be worth 2 F5000 cars in kudos and history and cut the mustard at the golf club bar but I don't know if it will pull a chick !

Rod Grimwood

02-19-2012, 12:15 AM

Thats whats wrong I don't play golf. Mind you most Kiwis played rugby at some time so theres another difference.
Sorry to hear the economic climate is interferring with the golf and gin. Good to hear there is still racing though.
Yep, prefer the chick.

Murray Maunder

02-19-2012, 12:42 PM

Driftwood - maybe you don't relaise but we had plenty of Brabhams and Lotuses and Coopers with their shrill 4 cylinder engines. Not far from what almost sunk F1 in the early 60s with the pathetic 1500cc rule. I was introduced to motor racing full of these cars and they tend to have shrunk into my memory as pale grey images. I barely remember Kenny Smith and David Oxton out of their 5 litre cars - you know what I wouldn't mind betting they feel the same way about their 180 horsepower exotica.

Yes of course F1 is and has always been the greatest expression of single seater motorsport but at a few times has had serious rivals. F5000 is one during an all-too-brief period of the 70s, (I can think of Champcars in their heyday also, and forgive me for also mentioning sports racing cars like CanAm and the great Ferrari v Porsche battles) and to suggest that somehow F5000 is sub dig is, with respect, snobbery of the highest order. These cars got the crowds to the circuits, brought the crowds to the fences, and all too briefly revitalised open wheeler racing away from the European F1 circus. To be able to peddle a F5000 competitively was to show you were in possession of balls - twin cam 4-cylinder racing was for blouses by comparison.

If you read some of the history of sixties F1 you will find that ALL the top drivers loathed the 1500s. At that time Clark, Hill, Surtees, Brabham and all brought a bit more grunt to the "OK Corral" when they spent their Northern Hemisphere winters downunder with, I think, it's 2.5 litre limit. Once the superstars all packed up and got serious about the BUSINESS of F1 with fag packet racing, a new formula was needed, F5000 was just the bill - noisy, fast and established who could really peddle a serious bit of kit. Sure the crowds who came to see Jimmy and Jochen and JYS and so on were slightly diminished but it was still a huge crowd every Christmas.

The passing of F5000s was the end of the huge crowds that flocked to Baypark and Puke and Wigram and Teretonga and Warwick Farm and..... The sound of vanilla 4 cylinder cars like Ralts and Van Diemens was the start of the end, even with great peddlers like Rosberg and Moreno.

You maybe are more interested in "pedigree" whatever that is, than seriously fast and demanding racecars and good on you but respectability at the golf club - my dear old thing! I'm sure owning a Brabham or Cooper twin cam wouldn't get you talked about in the bar! Myself, I love delightful cars like Lotus 72s and McLaren M23s etc but when they become too rare and valuable to race they have to be put in a museum. That is sadder than the mayhem at Hampton Downs every January! I do hope you come down and see that we aren't all just about F5000s at the Festival of Motor Racing. I spoke to a gentleman from Germany (the BMW factory) who visited NZ for the first time and was absolutely blown away by everything he experienced while he was here at the FOMR. And it didn't rain ALL the time.

driftwood

02-19-2012, 02:45 PM

David McKinney

02-19-2012, 03:58 PM

The passing of F5000s was the end of the huge crowds that flocked to Baypark and Puke and Wigram and Teretonga and Warwick Farm and.....
I'd be interested to see some figures to back that up

As I remember it, F5000 steadily lost its public appeal after its first few years, but the crowds picked up once Formula Pacific was introduced in 1977 (only to drop away again after the first few seasons)

Murray Maunder

02-19-2012, 07:49 PM

Im off to the golf club for a stiff G & T or 3 before i get round to replying as my soft pommy feelings have been bruised & battered by you rough n tough kiwis it may take me a while to get over it!!
Now where is my umbrella ??
Driftwood - as I think I implied, I hope you come down and enjoy Kiwi hospitality and see for yourself the array of what constitutes motor racing down under. F5000 was incredibly spectacular, but with rose tinted glasses off, often the attrition rate was high and not all racing was of the highest order. But this was no different to F1 of the era when completing a GP with relatively few problems would usually guarantee a top 6 finish and the racing could be largely processional. F5000s nicely filled a void with a lack of availability of F1 type cars and drivers after 1968.

Yes David, you are correct, and F5000 here as elsewhere had a relatively short period where it was really strong. As it diminished, so too did the crowds. Looking at the F5000s at this year's Festival, the unreliability of the cars presented, and the modern compulsion with throwing a red flag at the first sign of trouble, resulted in farcical events. However when the racing of these cars is less than nail biting the crowd can enjoy the sound and general spectacle of the cars. To hear 30 of them thunder up HD's main straight and take the start line green lights is spine tingling stuff.

And finally, the drivers' view - the guys who race or drive them now, including youngsters from Michael Lyons to Greg Murphy:D wax lyrical about the thrill of driving them. As spectators we know - we can see the effort and skill it takes to drive them on or near the limit.

Murray Maunder

02-19-2012, 08:18 PM

Im off to the golf club for a stiff G & T or 3 before i get round to replying as my soft pommy feelings have been bruised & battered by you rough n tough kiwis it may take me a while to get over it!!
Now where is my umbrella ??
Driftwood - as I think I implied, I hope you come down and enjoy Kiwi hospitality and see for yourself the array of what constitutes motor racing down under. F5000 was incredibly spectacular, but with rose tinted glasses off, often the attrition rate was high and not all racing was of the highest order. But this was no different to F1 of the era when completing a GP with relatively few problems would usually guarantee a top 6 finish and the racing could be largely processional. F5000s nicely filled a void with a lack of availability of F1 type cars and drivers after 1968.

Yes David, you are correct, and F5000 here as elsewhere had a relatively short period where it was really strong. As it diminished, so too did the crowds. Looking at the F5000s at this years Festival, the unreliability of the cars presented, and the modern
compulsion with throwing a red flag at the first sign of trouble, resulted in farcical events. However when the racing of these cars is less than nail biting the crowd can enjoy the sound and general spectacle of the cars. To hear 30 of them thunder up HD's main straight and take the start line green lights is spine tingling stuff.

And finally, the drivers. All from Kenny to young Michael Lyons talk enthusiastically about how great it is to drive cars which require skill and commitment and balls. We mere spectators can see this from the edge of the track, brave stuff!

Steve Holmes

02-19-2012, 09:56 PM

Lets face it, historic racing in different countries tends to reflect the type of cars that competed in period in those countries. And the following each formula enjoyed in period plays a role in the desirability of those cars today. A full grid of F5000 cars booming away from a rolling start in modern historic racing makes the hairs on the back of my next stand on end. But the emotions they stir up are different for different people. And the pecking order they enjoyed in period in different countries around the world may have something to do with that.

F5000 enjoyed a strong following in Australia and NZ, and Australia stuck with the formula right through until the early 80s. And in both of these counties the formula was considered the premier racing category. But this wasn't the case in the UK, nor was it the case in the US. Read my story on the Penske Lola T330 AMC. Penske were already racing in USAC, Can-Am, and NASCAR in 1973 before they gave any sort of consideration to F5000. The same was true for the UK. There were other categories considered more prominent, and in modern historic racing these categories are still considered more prominent. In Australia and NZ, however, F5000 was where the best local drivers raced, and so it seems natural the formula is held in higher regard in these countries.

Australia and NZ probably began to take after the US more so than the UK as the 60s rolled into the 70s, leaning more towards stock block large capacity V8 motors in both open wheeler and sedan racing, whereas the UK (post-war) has had more interest in smaller capacity, higher revving, and more technical motors. That change is still apparent now, especially in sedan racing, where the UK prefers small capacity motors, Aus and NZ, like the US, prefer large capacity, and relatively basic, stock block V8s. Its interesting to read the pros and cons for the various formulae from different people from around the world. The fact is, there is no wrong or right answer, just different opinions.

driftwood

02-20-2012, 01:02 AM

In essence Steve you are hitting the nail on the head
not knocking Murrays view but we can all get misty eyed over the past and memories distort what was reality from what we want to believe was great!
Look at modern F1- it does absolutely nothing for me but show me 1992-97 cars I get interested in watching an old GP or looking over the cars.
NZ has adopted F5000 for its premier Historic single seater category mainly due to big power for low $$ outlay and maintenance compared to say F Atlantic and have bought in from UK USA many cars and certainly more cars than there ever where in NZ in period.
In OZ they had from 2001 to 2007 a big rush on for F Atlantic cars when they opened up from pre 80 cars through to 86 cars either restoring what they had or importing RT4 from USA but NZ never jumped through the hoop
Some of this is likely to be down to the cost of BDA rebuild and the small population

Up in euroland F2 1600 and 2 litre from 70-84 and F Atlantic cars have been what tickled our fancy with the pure race engine and sounds
When my BMW F2 engine is started up my guys have to go and change their under wear as the excitement is just too much - I don't see that from a big Chevy whether its F5000 or Lola T70 sports car
DFV is another motor that requires fresh underwear
but i guess its Blonde or brunettes beer or wine each to their own but the bottom line is that NZ has historic cars to run at premier meetings to kick start things but if you want to see real race engines visit the northern hemisphere festivals when we have F1 F2 Gp 6 sports cars racing and pack fresh underwear

bry3500

02-20-2012, 04:54 AM

http://www.sportscardigest.com/six-lola-f5000-tubs-discovered-in-michigan/

driftwood

02-20-2012, 12:47 PM

yes great way to spend your kids inheritance building up a car with so many parts missing!!
I sold the owner a DG300 gear case this time last year to put towards his pile of parts
what amazes me is he is not a young un to take on such a project !!
He did come down to run his car with you guys this winter that he originally raced when the lola was new back in the days when life was black n white and NZ had electricity:rolleyes:

Steve Holmes

02-21-2012, 08:51 PM

Rod Grimwood

02-24-2012, 12:09 AM

Aha, the Golf club verse the Rugby club, two totally different places, with different equipment. (note how many kiwis propping up your rugby know), as kiwis did back in the hey day of F2,F1 (still). Where would you be without us Driftwood. PS what is your weather doing as we have not recieved our summer yet.

driftwood

02-25-2012, 10:38 PM

yes golf and rugby clubs are different spectrums !
Where are the kiwis in F2 these days? Mr Weber is an Ozzie that is similar to a Kiwi just a bit more nasally!
Hmm where would i be without you?? probably surfing more on "fleabay" and not checking out what you lot are upto !
As for your summer I suspect we may have it here in our winter its been very mild ok we had 1 week of snow but we are already on drought alert with water reservoirs dry as we have had 2he 2 driest winters on record

I guess the hordes of F5000 cars have now crossed the Tasman to Phillip Island?

Rod Grimwood

02-27-2012, 01:14 AM

Yep, tucked up in bed at Ruapuna a couple of weeks back and sent on holiday to Phillip Island, off next week to reunite with them. Never been there so looking forward to it.

Murray Maunder

02-27-2012, 10:09 AM

Drool, drool, Rod! The thought of a full grid of F5000s charging down to turn 1 and jockeying into Southern Loop gives me goosebumps. Hope the attrition rate is better than at HD and that everyones stays out of major strife at this beautiful circuit.

Let's also hope for some great pictures from PI at The Roaring Season.

105angria

02-27-2012, 11:09 AM

Hi Rod dont know you from a bar of soap ,but Bry and I will find you in the pits and take you for a tour of the great spots to watch at Philip Island if you have some time regards Angria

Shano

02-27-2012, 07:40 PM

Steve Holmes

02-27-2012, 08:37 PM

Good question Shane. The cynical side of me thinks its got something to do with the Tasman Revival F5000 series itself, where there is a heavy emphasis on race wins and championships. A later model Lola or McRae will definitely offer more chances to win a championship than an older McLaren M10. The McLaren is possibly a little cheaper to buy, but running costs will be the same. But a newer car will put you towards the front of the field, where the tv and magazine coverage tends to focus more.

pallmall

02-27-2012, 09:45 PM

There are supposedly 3 M10s in NZ, one was entered for the BMW Festival, but did not arrive.
Thankfully there seems to be more early cars on carburettors coming out to play and I hope that we will see the M10s out with the early Lolas, Surtees, etc cars.
I guess this is an issue when you run a true racing series for older cars, winning becomes all important, sometimes at the expense of period correctness and cars that everybody wants to see get left in the shed because they are not going to win. Like the Historic Muscle Cars the cars should be the stars. Surely there are now enough cars to split the field into the later 'racers' and the earlier cars, be good for us spectators and must be a way of getting the early cars out of the sheds and onto the track.

Steve Holmes

02-27-2012, 09:50 PM

Yeah good point Gavin, I know the championship is split into the older and newer cars, but it would be neat to see the older cars getting their own race.

kiwi285

02-28-2012, 04:00 AM

There are four McLaren M10's currently in NZ being rebuilt for racing. Tony Roberts has the original Church Farm Racing machine (M10A 300-01 ex Gethin) that is part way through rebuild. Poul Christie has an M10B (400-6 ex Gethin) that was enterted at HD but didn't quite make it but will be on track soon. His son Graham also has an M10A (300-02 ex Eaton) that is working its way through a home rebuild. Frank Karl has an M10B (400-03) - he was telling me at HD that the car is being worked on at present. For the McLaren Festival Grant Clearwater brought his M10A (300-08) out to race and as far as I know the car is still in NZ although I haven't seen or heard of it.

There are also two M18 F5000 cars in NZ plus another M22 but news on these cars is scarce at best.

Rod Grimwood

02-28-2012, 05:10 AM

Angria, look forward to catchting up, look for this group and we will be close by.

Grant still has the McLaren up north here. (well last i looked a year ago)

Michael Clark

02-28-2012, 06:23 AM

I'd be surprised if M10s were cheap to buy - my guess is that they'd rate near the top end of 5000s for prices.

Years ago, for the TACCOC magazine, I did a list of something like the 10 most significant 5000s - my opinion only of course. I think I had the M10A/B at #2 to the Lola T330/332.

The M10 certainly wins the 'best looking' 5000 to my eye - from the McRae GM2, Lola T400 and Surtees TS8...

Steve Holmes

02-28-2012, 07:32 AM

markec

02-28-2012, 07:40 AM

Re the intense competition,I have a very casual acquaintance with some of those involved with the F5000 revival and while some of them are out to win at all costs the great magority are out to have a little fun in their middle aged years. You have to remember that many of those competing today would never have been able to afford to race this type of car back in their youth,marriages, children and mortgages were ruling what they were able to race, it wasn't necessarily in that order either.

kiwi285

02-28-2012, 07:53 AM

Angria, look forward to catchting up, look for this group and we will be close by.

Grant still has the McLaren up north here. (well last i looked a year ago)

What an unruly bunch. I hope that you are taking your camera Rod and come back with hundreds of photos for all of us unlucky enough not to be going. LOL

I believe that the M10 is in Kerikeri.

Rod Grimwood

02-28-2012, 08:29 AM

Come on Mike, sneak away, use me as an excuse. You are the photo man. Will try and get as many as possible in between what we do.
The boys are only unruly when i am not there to watch them.

M10B

02-28-2012, 09:45 AM

Can anyone tell me why there are no McLaren M10s racing - what happened to them all? Still one of the nicest looking F5000 cars, not as brutal looking as the Lolas, but would be nice to see some in the fields.

Shano,
Bruce Leeson campaigns an M10B in the US and here occasionally.
There are 3 M10's here in Melbourne; 2 under resto which should be complete by end march . The 3rd is race ready.
Hopefully we'll have them testing together in a few weeks........(pics)

Oldfart

02-28-2012, 06:47 PM

Yes Grants' M10 is in Keri, well it was yesterday! Along with a LOT of other really cool cars.

kiwi285

02-28-2012, 07:06 PM

Are the Connaught and Brabham in amongst them ?? Any chance of finding out which other cars are there ??

kiwi285

02-28-2012, 07:08 PM

Shano,
Bruce Leeson campaigns an M10B in the US and here occasionally.
There are 3 M10's here in Melbourne; 2 under resto which should be complete by end march . The 3rd is race ready.
Hopefully we'll have them testing together in a few weeks........(pics)

Hi M10B - does that include the Graham Wadsworth car ?

Shano

02-28-2012, 08:08 PM

Good news on the M10 front then. It's just that they were such an important step in the evolution of F5000s and without one or two, the existing grids are missing something.

Oldfart

02-29-2012, 08:07 AM

Are the Connaught and Brabham in amongst them ?? Any chance of finding out which other cars are there ??

Yes, but as I am not sure what he wants revealed I would much rather get his approval.

Rod Grimwood

02-29-2012, 09:50 AM

Good call Oldfart.

driftwood

03-02-2012, 02:49 PM

If anyone wants M10 I have mint restored car for sale

M10B

03-02-2012, 03:28 PM

What chassis #...location??

driftwood

03-03-2012, 12:44 AM

if u are serious contact me direct the clue is in my location !

Steve Holmes

03-03-2012, 12:46 AM

Email me the photo if you like driftwood and I can post it on here: enquiries@monsterracewear.co.nz

bry3500

03-03-2012, 01:26 AM

Paddy Driver car??

driftwood

03-04-2012, 04:30 PM

not paddy driver uk hill climb car

Eagle512

03-04-2012, 04:50 PM

M10B at Portland Oregon, 2010

6448

Eagle512

03-04-2012, 04:59 PM

Sears Point 2010 Eagle , McLaren, Lola
6449

kiwi285

03-04-2012, 08:38 PM

Hi Rod dont know you from a bar of soap ,but Bry and I will find you in the pits and take you for a tour of the great spots to watch at Philip Island if you have some time regards Angria

Grimme is the one sitting on the rear wheel. That moustache is unmistakable. LOL

http://i39.tinypic.com/fthfv5.jpg

Rod Grimwood

03-04-2012, 10:09 PM

Thanks Mike, now all the girls will be hanging around.

Horizon

03-05-2012, 02:16 AM

not paddy driver uk hill climb car

I restored 300-08 in 2003/4. 1970 Britsh Hillclimbing championship winner with Sir Nick Willamson. Car was exported to the uk (from the U.S.) and it disappeared.

Steve Holmes

03-05-2012, 04:59 AM

Hey Eagle, thanks for the pics, those are stunning cars. Can you tell me more about "The Ginger People Racing Team"?

Steve Holmes

03-05-2012, 05:00 AM

I restored 300-08 in 2003/4. 1970 Britsh Hillclimbing championship winner with Sir Nick Willamson. Car was exported to the uk (from the U.S.) and it disappeared.

Got any pics Tony? Would love to see them.

Steve Holmes

03-05-2012, 05:01 AM

Thanks Mike, now all the girls will be hanging around.

Yep you're right. Patti has been asking for your contact details!

6476

bry3500

03-05-2012, 08:40 AM

Got any pics Tony? Would love to see them.http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/mclaren/m10-04/m10-04ss.htm

Rod Grimwood

03-05-2012, 09:27 AM

Thanks Steve, knew you would look after me. I owe you

Steve Holmes

03-05-2012, 09:24 PM

Thats what I'm here for Rod, to look after you guys!

Horizon

03-07-2012, 03:42 AM

Got any pics Tony? Would love to see them.

Steve...Yes ! but need to scan from 35mm pics. soon.........

Eagle512

03-09-2012, 04:58 PM

Hey Eagle, thanks for the pics, those are stunning cars. Can you tell me more about "The Ginger People Racing Team"?

Yes, the McLaren M10B (ex David Prophet) has been owned and raced by Bruce Leeson for many years. Bruce is an Australian living here in California. One of his incarnations was as a motorsports photographer and magazine contributor in Australia during the heyday of F5000.

Bruce is quite fast and has raced the car in the US, NZ, and OZ. He actually won the Class-A (older chassis) honors at the Australian Grand Prix F1 support race (Tasman Cup Revival) a few years ago.

For information on The Ginger People, see their website at http://www.gingerpeople.com.au/

6545

kiwi285

03-09-2012, 09:34 PM

That certainly is a great looking machine and I was lucky enough to see it racing at the McLaren Festival. That will be a great sight when some of the M10's currently being rebuilt in NZ hit the track.

Wal Will

03-10-2012, 01:43 AM

The prototype M10a in the workshop before the January 1969 Motor show. Bruce was very proud of this car and thought that Formula A - as it was known then - was an excelent concept.

Steve Holmes

03-10-2012, 10:04 PM

Wow, it sure is great having you here Wal!

Steve Holmes

03-10-2012, 10:05 PM

Yes, the McLaren M10B (ex David Prophet) has been owned and raced by Bruce Leeson for many years. Bruce is an Australian living here in California. One of his incarnations was as a motorsports photographer and magazine contributor in Australia during the heyday of F5000.

Bruce is quite fast and has raced the car in the US, NZ, and OZ. He actually won the Class-A (older chassis) honors at the Australian Grand Prix F1 support race (Tasman Cup Revival) a few years ago.

For information on The Ginger People, see their website at http://www.gingerpeople.com.au/

6545

Thanks for that info Eagle, thats great! What a superb looking car.

Nick Slade

08-29-2012, 03:40 AM

Hi, here's a little update on the Leeson Mclaren. I am not sure how many of you will remember us (Nick and Bob Slade at Slade Engines) originally from Christchurch, we are rebuilding the engine for Bruces Mclaren and when we got the car to our workshop we realized it needed a lot of work so I am currently underway on a complete rebuild. The car is being converted to mechanical fuel injection and the car is going to Australia in a month. I have been through all the uprights and gearbox and Brakes and made a new wiring loom. I just completed a bolt list today so the car will be completely fitted with new NAS hardware and all the suspension pieces replated Nickel. There has been a lot of changes so for those that remember the car I think you will clearly see the difference
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/DAC730C5-CA30-4793-876B-AACC0D0D0A8E-101-0000005B014452B3.jpg
New headrest Bar
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/8F330EBD-E93A-4E25-987A-DD332DDBD273-101-0000005B212C6F9A.jpg
New bulkhead panel fitted after I airbrushed bulkheads
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/AFC07718-91BC-407E-A8B5-BBC4C3E8EC55-101-0000005B3D0C90C4.jpg
New painted Bulkhead
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/B72CE76B-4128-450B-82D7-9DC90000005B8F88F84
[IMG]http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/DA791D1F-BDCE-4266-878F-EDADB475E6D0-246-000000592F58782D.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/0F1D39F5-A823-49DD-A4AD-A1A7236AF7BC-101-00000056B9044DD8.jpg
Quick wiring diagram so I did not have any problems
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/CF19C108-D244-41AD-A15E-5AF673337294-101-00000056EE90FE1A.jpg
Loom in car

Nick Slade

08-29-2012, 03:44 AM

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/73F8F017-83B1-45EE-B8EA-4087B959A58B-101-000000568E67FC16.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/C7B61F84-E513-4FA9-A15B-E93F962F646F-246-000000591125ACB2.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/10F3B259-BD47-402F-B5D6-D2BEA94FAD54-246-00000059407BEC5C.jpg

kiwi285

08-29-2012, 05:59 AM

That is sure going to be a thorough refurbishment - will see it lasting for years to come.

Great to see you on this website. Maybe you should revisit NZ some time soon.

Steve Holmes

08-29-2012, 07:02 AM

Beautiful work Nick! Thanks for posting. Can you update us as you progress?

Nick Slade

08-30-2012, 03:25 AM

Thanks, yes I will keep you updated on the progress. I have spent most of the last two days taking care of ordering parts. I will post more pictures as progress is made.

Nick Slade

08-31-2012, 04:41 AM

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/0D974D95-3CAC-4750-BDD2-9B248DD0CC86-100-0000005E29854939.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/7BA69634-0039-4823-AA01-CEE592707E1D-100-0000005E170712D4.jpg
Today we recieved the new rear wishbones and output flanges so everything went out for Nickel plating except rear wing mount which is still on the car being repaired.

driftwood

08-31-2012, 10:39 PM

the M10 has been voted as 1 of the best looking cars of the 70's just like the Jordan 191 of the 90's and has to be 1 car in the dream lottery30 million lottery win collection buying spree we will all go on !
NO i am not starting to add other cars to the list maybe that is another thread

Nick Slade

08-31-2012, 11:59 PM

Steve Holmes

09-01-2012, 05:37 AM

I'm no expert Nick, but those look a lot like F5000 pics to me! Keep 'em coming!

Bondy

09-02-2012, 10:36 PM

The pictures are fantastic Nick :)

Classic Carlectables are releasing another Lola T332 in early 2013. This version being the Vern Schuppan Theodore Racing Lola T332 HU37 Rothmans Oran Park Round Winner. Perhaps just a overall series winner replica would have been better. Im probably dreaming, but it would be nice if this car had wet weather tyres :)

10735

Steve Holmes

09-02-2012, 11:27 PM

Bondy, that model is stunning!

Nick Slade

09-05-2012, 05:07 AM

Hi guys, today I put the transmission back together. I won't have any of the parts back from plating until Friday. I will be ready to fit suspension to gearbox and tub, all the uprights and gearbox are back together and the rack is at heat treating. We have new valves in and the crank should be finished this week. Lots to do and very little time left now!
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/016F0D27-BB09-47EC-A56C-EB031250C307-279-0000006704E5AEDB.jpg

Steve Holmes

09-06-2012, 05:04 AM

Nice!!!

Nick Slade

09-19-2012, 05:32 AM

Here is a quick photo update
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/2C3E7C0B-1AEB-4477-9614-13DE5A0E9FF9-207-0000007C0C72D5DF_zpsea73c63c.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/25A84F43-6EA0-4A7A-9054-4A19E8B657A0-207-0000007BFE97D89F_zps2373d735.jpg

Steve Holmes

09-19-2012, 09:00 PM

Very nice! When you say it needed a lot of work, what was wrong with the car? Was it just getting tired or had it been involved in a shunt? (Or something?)

Eagle512

09-21-2012, 03:03 PM

Hey Nick, great photos! Hopefully you'll get a chance to record the audio (at least) of the dyno run. No need to publish the numbers though :cool:11351

Here's a pic of the M10B at it's last race before the rebuild. Road America, July 2012. That's the RIAM / Adamowicz Eagle mk5 in the foreground.

Steve
ps see you for lunch today or tomorrow.

Eagle512

09-21-2012, 03:06 PM

Here's related F5000 video of Jay Esterer at Goodwood Revival in 2011. Jay also has two McRae GM1's that he has raced around the globe. I believe he won last years Lady Wigram.

The video is not F5000 but it IS probably the most entertaining race I've "seen" at Goodwood. See what you think!

Whitsun Trophy Race Goodwood 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT3lyLf50RE&feature=channel_video_title

Eagle512

09-21-2012, 08:31 PM

Here's a photo of the car Nick's working on. 1970 Oulton Park. David Prophet M10B. View the results here http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/racelist2.php?uniqid=23463

11352

Ellis

09-21-2012, 09:50 PM

The new book on F5000 is on the shelves...

F5000 Thunder
Titans of Road Racing 1970-1982
Oxley / Bell

400+ pages
Great previously unpublished pics
1st hand stories by those who were there
Around $A90

Steve Holmes

09-22-2012, 04:52 AM

Here's a photo of the car Nick's working on. 1970 Oulton Park. David Prophet M10B. View the results here http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/racelist2.php?uniqid=23463

11352

Superb photo!

Steve Holmes

09-22-2012, 04:55 AM

Here's related F5000 video of Jay Esterer at Goodwood Festival in 2011. Jay also has two McRae GM1's that he has raced around the globe. I believe he won last years Lady Wigram.

The video is not F5000 but it IS probably the most entertaining race I've "seen" at Goodwood. See what you think!

Whitsun Trophy Race Goodwood 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT3lyLf50RE&feature=channel_video_title

Wow! Just magnificent! Some of those guys are absolutely nuts! Can the Goodwood race highlights be bought on dvd?

Eagle512

09-22-2012, 04:35 PM

Hi Steve,
My mistake, it's actually the Goodwood Revival. The FOS is the hillclimb. (I edited my post to correct it).

I haven't watched any of these DVD's but a quick google gives me the "gift shop" at Goodwood for the DVD.

http://shop.goodwood.com/products/2011-goodwood-revival-dvd-1

Steve

kiwi285

09-22-2012, 08:36 PM

So much for owners pampering their classic cars. Great to see the Lola still in the Cambridge racing colours.

Steve Holmes

09-22-2012, 11:54 PM

Nick Slade

09-23-2012, 04:37 AM

Superb photo!

Yes that is a fantastic photo, sorry I missed you today Steve, we spent the day with the thunderbirds (U.S.A.F) F16's,absolutely fantastic to get up close for the day, would love to post pics but that would definately not be in line with subject at hand :)

Eagle512

09-24-2012, 02:24 PM

Eagle MK5 #511 recently resurrected in Colorado. Wonderful job of rebuilding the ex Davey Jordan ex Swede Savage Eagle # 511.

In 1969 the AIR team of John Crean and James Garner purchased 3 cars to race in the North American Formula/A (F5000) series.

The chassis were 511, 512, and 513. 511 raced in the US and Canada with Dave Jordan and Swede Savage. 512 raced in US, Canada and New Zealand with Dave Jordan and Bill Simpson. 513 was never actively campaigned (perhaps 'club' racing?) and is presently being resurrected in Ohio.

Chassis 511, powered by a STOUT Plymouth engine, ended it's first life against the fence at the Questor Grand Prix in 1971. The Questor was a challenge race between F5000 and Formula 1.

Restored and just completed including it's Plymouth power. Looking forward to seeing it on track soon. More details on the Eagles can be found here http://www.oldracingcars.com/eagle/68-69/

Steve

1160811609

Steve Holmes

09-24-2012, 09:26 PM

Wow, that is STUNNING! What a beautiful job they've done. I assume the motor was essentially what was used in the AAR Plymouth Cuda's in the 1970 Trans-Am series, but with fuel injection? Must sound fantastic.

Nick Slade

09-28-2012, 01:08 AM

Just a quick Photo update
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/71A60F4F-8B75-4896-8EBC-05A6B211BB60-180-0000008ABEACB523.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/C9DC24CD-53D0-4C9B-92AB-FBD632E35FE5-90-0000000B1684D975.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/21CBD91A-E5A3-4807-BAC4-6F0AAA168815-90-0000000AEEBFA5A1.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/4B162019-4B26-4022-AFDE-96DAA064A8EB-180-0000008B779C581B.jpg

Lee Tracey

09-29-2012, 07:36 AM

That Eagle looks gorgeous. Hope the owner can be tempted down this way at some stage. Would love to see it (and hear something different to the Chevs).

Cheers
Lee

Nick Slade

09-30-2012, 03:59 AM

It might take a while to find but I think I have video of it when we ran it on our Dyno. I will certainly post it if I do

Nick Slade

10-05-2012, 11:12 PM

The Mclaren is finished and we tested today at Buttonwillow and the car ran great. Eagle512 ( Steve ) came to the track and helped for the day.
the car will be on it's way to Australia shortly.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/1A9D30C7-70C7-4E4D-A087-784CE74C90AF-330-00000078A70E1518.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/82F94284-514A-4911-BD36-7B742E172EBA-330-000000788EBC7675.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/D509C3BE-7CEA-4244-983C-F1F665AE52CA-330-000000787A1E5F15.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad201/nickardele/E355B93B-8D62-4747-88C0-0330FC591696-330-000000785FEC716E.jpg

Lee Tracey

10-06-2012, 06:12 AM

Looks lovely Nick!

Cheers
Lee

Eagle512

10-06-2012, 03:44 PM

Great photos Nick! And a great job on the car.
Steve

[QUOTE=Nick Slade;18724]The Mclaren is finished and we tested today at Buttonwillow and the car ran great.

Steve Holmes

10-07-2012, 08:04 AM

Real nice work Nick, I've really enjoyed your posts on all the work you guys have been doing.

Nick Slade

10-10-2012, 04:00 AM

Thanks, I wished I had just a couple more days with the car but it turned out well. I hope that it gets some great results in Australia

Steve Holmes

10-11-2012, 04:54 AM

Nick, does the car live in Australia, or is it just being sent to Aus to race?

Bondy

10-11-2012, 05:15 AM

Speaking of F5000s of the early 70s, here is a new announcement from Classic Carlectables. The 1971 Australian Grand Prix Winner. 12064

Steve Holmes

10-11-2012, 05:22 AM

God, that Matich is stunning! Will it be 1:18 scale?

Bondy

10-11-2012, 05:34 AM

God, that Matich is stunning! Will it be 1:18 scale?

Hi Steve, yes it will be :) available in the 2nd quarter of 2013.

Eagle512

10-11-2012, 03:46 PM

Speaking of F5000s of the early 70s, here is a new announcement from Classic Carlectables. The 1971 Australian Grand Prix Winner.

Great looking Matich!

Here's another model. Dick Smothers (entertainer) and Candy Martin (Riverside International Race Queen) with the AIR Dave Jordan Eagle #512 at the start of the 1970 race season. Promotional event held in front of Dick Smothers restaurant prior to the Riverside race. I have a few more if anyone's interested.

12071

Grant Ellwood

10-11-2012, 11:41 PM

Great looking Matich!

Here's another model. Dick Smothers (entertainer) and Candy Martin (Riverside International Race Queen) with the AIR Dave Jordan Eagle #512 at the start of the 1970 race season. Promotional event held in front of Dick Smothers restaurant prior to the Riverside race. I have a few more if anyone's interested.

12071

Yes please but not 1/43rd scale!!

kiwi285

10-12-2012, 12:53 AM

Speaking of F5000s of the early 70s, here is a new announcement from Classic Carlectables. The 1971 Australian Grand Prix Winner. 12064

That is a great looking model. Does anyone know if there has been a 1/18 scale model of a McLaren M10 produced ??

Bondy

10-12-2012, 04:04 AM

Yes please but not 1/43rd scale!!

I'd gladly take a 1:1 version ;)

Steve Holmes

10-12-2012, 05:28 AM

Bondy, was the original racing at the Muscle Car Masters last month?

Steve Holmes

10-12-2012, 05:30 AM

Bondy

10-12-2012, 05:41 AM

Bondy, was the original racing at the Muscle Car Masters last month?

Hi Steve, yes it was although i think it's still running a Chev. I think it only ran a Chev when John Briggs owned it..