More than happy to pay $50ish. Bargain at the price.
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More than happy to pay $50ish. Bargain at the price.
All this for less than a tank of gas. I would be happy to pay $45 and I guess Im not the only one on this site with a Gold Card.
Its a shame that the perception is that this sort of thing on the internet should be free. Steve we shouldn't expect you to do all this for nothing.
Graeme
I am more than happy to pay the $45 or $50. Go back 2 or 3 years and and I was paying over $200 a year total for "SpeedSport"(died) and UK "Motor Sport"(got bored with it). I'm getting far more enjoyment and spending far more computer time (so wife complains) on Roaring Season, so it's not unreasonable to compensate those who are making it possible.
However, it needs plenty of thought. There has been interesting input from people who might have been discouraged if a fee was charged. Beware the "unintended consequences".
Stu Buchanan
Hi Steve,
Nothing good in life is free, and half a hundred or so for what you offer here is a no-brainer. People being people some will leave but every new member that signs up after the change will be doing so because they see the value in it. Might I suggest new users get a short free period to sample the content before getting out the credit card?
Onwards and upwards, my card is out and ready!
Buzz
Hi Steve,
I would not pay.
I did contribute a small article on the DeJoux cars but I would not have done so if I had to pay for it.
I think the site will wither if you make contributors pay.
Goodluck with what ever you decide.
Kerry O'Connor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeebeeNZ
Jeez I'll say. 90c a week...how much do you waste on newspapers ?
Steve, I like this site very much and if it would be my only interest, I'd certainly pay for it.
Running a website for about 20 years now I know how much time goes into it as a private person and one is attempted to let it go more than once. I have seen many a site rise and disappear over the years. The biggest isssue is.. to maintain it and keep the level of visitors or grow it. When it grows you have a dilemma, if it fails, you can dig it. Now you are in the dilemma situation. More visitors, more pressure on you as the editor to fulfill expectations. I also think that with a payment the visitors number will eventually be less than half, yet if it is what you want and can maintain as fun for yourself and the others, just do it, Steve. It is your website now and you are free to do what you want (somewhat), if it is paid, you have a bigger obligation to fulfill expectations. Thats what kept me from accepting ads and any other offers, rather do what I want and when I want to speak out. But that is just personal. I will appreciate both ways you go, but probably not be able to pay for another source of information due to the others I pay.
Sometimes I still like to fuel up my own car. You might wish also to think of that. Sometimes I regret to have spent so much time in front of the PC instead of on the road. Value that for yourself. Good luck with your decision.
No brainer,well worth the amount suggested
Steve, maybe a focus on specializing in selling racecars, books, motor racing memorabilia, etc., might bring in the extra dollars. I would be more than happy to pay a percentage of the sale price and TRS may become the only place one goes to look for or sell such items. Worth a thought?
Sorry been away, will be paying.
This is an amazing site, and whats 8 pints of beer for a year.
I would pay. I like the idea of a motorsport focussed auction section as Russ suggested. As a 29 yr old I missed out on all the good stuff and trying to find good books etc, without having to spend hours trawling through trademe, would be bliss. Love the website and I think 45 bucks for all the stories, photos, info and knowledge well worth it. Maybe having a couple of trusted admins may lighten the work load also Steve? If young uns like us dont gather the info it will all be lost!!!
Hi, I joined the forum to try and find out more about a car I had just bought and information on that has petered out. I log on every now and then to see if there are any interesting threads but very rarely find read any new ones that pique my interest. Some of the longer-running ones sound interesting but there is too much back history for me to wade through so I don't bother. I don't have time to read any of the articles, reviews, event previews etc. but have looked at a few of the photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Holmes
I used to subscribe to several classic car magazines both from the UK and from NZ but have dropped all of them except "NZ Classic Car" either because they became poor value for money or because I didn't have time to raed one issue before the next one came out. I am a member of a couple of other (free) motoring internet sites and several others for other interests where I read some of the threads but only a very few.
Having read your proposal, if advertising revenue is not a realistic option for funding the site, I am in favour of you instituting a charge for access to the "archive" of articles, photo collections and a "Members Only" section of the forum but feel that there should still be free access to the general area of the forum. In answer to your final question, if I had to choose between paying NZ$45 or the site being shut down, I would be sorry to see it go but I wouldn't pay.
Hi everyone, thanks all for your replies. I've read every post, some more than once, and I appreciate everyone taking the time to read through my opening post and then taking the time to respond. The replies supporting the idea of an annual subscription and peoples reasoning for this are really interesting. Likewise, those against it are too. For me its a case of probably being too close to the forest to see the trees, which is why I appreciate your feedback. I've invested nearly 2 years in this site. I was driving along a few weeks ago and began calculating the time each week I spend working on the site, and was a bit stunned to realise I spend roughly 25 hours per week working on it! Whats even more scary is that I actually need to be spending more time than that on it to get it as I'd like it.
Please understand that the idea of an annual subscription is just that, an idea. I do need to monetize the site, I can’t keep investing the time I do in it without it earning money. Advertising is usually the most obvious option, but finding the time to try and lure advertisers is the sticking point, particularly in a tough economic climate. I’ve been in touch with a company who specialise in finding advertisers for websites, but they want me to increase the number of articles I’m writing, and increase unique visitor numbers a little more, and even then they can’t guarantee anything. So this is an option, but the timeframe and payback are something of an unknown.
I’m in the very early stages of working with an online promotions company to find a solution.
It may be that a dedicated paid subscribers forum area is created, separate from the existing General Discussion forum, and all the articles (both new and existing), photo collections, event reviews etc etc, go into that, and those paying the subscription have access to it, plus all the existing free view areas, while those choosing not to pay the subscription, only have access to the free areas. Those not paying could see a small part of the content (ie, the first couple of paragraphs of each article etc), so if they decided there was enough in there to warrant paying the subscription, they could, otherwise they could continue to enjoy the free areas.
Additionally, an online shop will also be created similar to what Russ has suggested above.
Anyway, still plenty to think about. Thanks again for the replies. They are really helpful.
$45 or $50 is a small price, even for us pensioners, for all the history that is being revealed on the site, . Like others who have expressed their concerns, I hope the quality contributions continue. How many subscribers do you need to make it viable?
Steve, I will happily pay the $ 45-50 as it represents good value as things stand now.
But, it doesn't seem to be a good long term business plan. Count the number of enthusiastic payers, it will be a nice little earner, for a while. The same regulars will be the main support, and over time the core support will shift, and you will be forever asking people to pay.
I have lost track of the number of forum sites that I have visited and used over the last 20 years. What was good for a while seems to loose traction as the next big thing comes along.
Advertising, and links to commercial sites with a "click fee" may be a better long term goal. I really want this to flourish, but I can't see it happening on the shoulders of only the previous 54 respondents (minus 4 or 5)
Bruce.
in. :) Chris Read - Arrowtown.
Hi Steve,
More than happy with the idea of an annual subscription. In fact I paid my $50.00 into your bank account about three weeks ago. Hope you received it.
John
Steve, was holding back on my reply, as an overseas member, enjoy the kiwi motoring stuff, sounds a reasonable price, just boughtan American " Vintage Motorsport " magazine [ been geting them for about 15 years on and off ] which cost Aussie $ 17.95, they used to cost me about NZ $22 back in 2008 and converts to the same so two magazines and you are in. will folow with interest. cheers Roger
Yep Steve count me in no problem
Steve, I have only recently joined, count me in you have created an outstanding website and look forward to being able to contribute.
With only 60 posts in total, several being multiples and one or two not so keen, I am not sure that there are sufficient responses to really make a subscription viable Steve. Even if 50 were positive, it's not going to recompense you for the time invested.
Hi Steve I have had a lot of enjoyment out of the site, and would be happy to contribute. Regards Markson
It seems to me Steve that once the site is viewed as a commercial enterprise (whether you actually make any money or simply recover some of your costs is irrelevant) the whole ethos will change. For example. any contributor, especially photography copyright holders might not unreasonably expect some payment as currently happens in the print media.
One of the delightful aspects of TRS is the very ad hoc nature of it, ranging from some amazing and often previously undiscovered photos through the sober discussion and correction of historical detail to the whimsical reminiscing of "old time racing drivers" (come back Amco you need to update Yards and Yarns). Some forum readers are interested in all aspects, some in only their own particular narrow interest, either way it is a little community. I think there is a real danger that this will be lost should some kind of subscription be imposed.
Advertisers or a commercial arm linked to the site would allow you some opportunity of cost recovery, albeit at the cost of more of your time but not at the risk of polluting or altering the very thing you have worked so hard to create.
Of course, having argued against a formal subscription, I do suggest that you have a "donation box" attached to the site. I have no idea what the uptake would be but you just might find that the Anti Payment posters might just be the first contributors!
Howard, bless you for including me in that special breed.....'old time racing drivers'....now thats a big LOL!!!!!!! I would have thought that my antics at the Denny Hulme festival would have made it abundantly clear that I am not a racing drivers backside, old time or not.
Now Yards and Yarns........I was going to crank it back into action but I cant find it on the General Discussion post anymore. How does one find a thread that has not run for a while, or maybe I just start a new one.......advice please.
And while I'm at it, could I just say what a thoughtfully penned piece you wrote on the contributions or otherwise to the TRS.
Hi Gerald, the program we use for this website has a 'search' function, which you can find on the right side of the page, towards the top, on the same block as the navigation tabs with the words 'Advanced Search' beneath it. You'll see a white box in which you can enter the key words you wish to search. Its not perfect, but will eventually find you what you're looking for. But here is the Yards And Yarns thread: http://www.theroaringseason.com/show...ht=yards+yarns
Hello everyone, thanks all for taking the time to read through my opening post, and either replying your thoughts here or emailing me personally. Your responses have helped me make some decisions as to the future of the site. There is still much thinking and researching to be done, but this has at least answered some questions for me. But I just wanted to let you all know I've read through each and every post.
Thanks again to you all for your replies.
Hi Steve Count me in JAMIE A
I should of course have also included amongst the roles TRS plays as being the "mast head" for race series such as HMC. I suspect that the extensive coverage here of HMC from its conception to Star of the Show at HD Denny Hulme has had a considerable influence on its success.
I know that unlike some other series there is no series entry fee (so far) for HMC but its not too much of a stretch to see that race promotors could benefit enormously from the sort of coverage, encouragement and promotion that has occurred via TRS. Even less of a stretch to see those promotors contributing to TRS from their entry fees as the promotion is mutually advantageous.
hi steve as i now live o/s i find that TRS is far more topical than any magazine that i might subscribe to.they say looking back only gives you a sore neck, well i do not object to pay for that privilage. you do a truly wonderful job in running this site. looking forward to being more involved in the future
Thanks again you guys, I really appreciate it.
Howard, it amazes me that other historic racing groups aren't jumping on here and using this site to promote themselves. There are approx 6,000 visitors to the site each month, 160,000 page views, average time spent per visit is just over 7 minutes, and its growing every day. It costs nothing for clubs to be on here, telling everyone what they're up to, and ramping up enthusiasm, and yet HMC seems to be the only group that has made the effort to create its own thread and keep people up to speed with what they're doing. Most of the content on the HMC has been posted by Dale, and the thread has generated nearly 60,000 page views. And I'm sure its been of benefit to the group. Steve Elliott announced on the HMC thread in early January that he was taking his HMC Camaro out to Hampton Downs to run it for the very first time since purchasing it from the US. Despite the first test being on a Friday, quite a number of people who visit this site made the effort to get out to HD just to see the car!Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Wood
I've actually tried emailing a few historic racing groups to encourage them to jump on here and promote their clubs, and have been largely ignored.
Is there a potential income stream from "hosting" other race series web sites for them? I notice the BMW series web site does not seem to be working. Last year it was a living breathing thing with photos updates etc etc, maybe with a change in race committee, there is no longer anyone there with the skills to do this (believe me I couldn't) and if so I bet they are not the only ones with that dilemma.
3 things then happen: You at least get to share some costs, they have someone to run the site on an ongoing basis irrespective of the skills of the committee and a whole new group gets turned on to TRS.
How do I pay?
I am happy to pay whatever it takes!
Maybe $50 pa so that the veiwer can open the photos - after the gos most people will veiw photos all night - paying a little will help the cause. The photos on here are very good and people all over the world will be downloading to add to their collections! make em pay a little!
nb if you don't pay the $50 the photos will not show [can your system handle this Steve?]
Hi Steve im in as long as it stays just like this
Thanks again everyone for your replies and feedback. I really appreciate it. This direction for the site has required a lot of thinking and planning, and while there has been a good response here within this thread and through emails sent directly to me, there is still too much of a great unknown in venturing down this path, and for that reason turning The Roaring Season into a pay subscription site is not something worth taking a risk on. It may work, it may not, but I really don't have enough information to be able to confidently move the site in that direction, so will instead look to other means to keep it growing and trying to generate an income.
Thanks again all who replied.
I'm in.
Hi Steve,Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Holmes
I understand your trepidation in making the site 'pay-to-view'. Although many of us would be happy to pay, the fear is you could lose more than you gain. Even if only a small percentage of current members chose not to subscribe, the site would be poorer for their loss. However, I have an idea about how we could potentially raise some funding for The Roaring Season. I'll contact you direct regarding the idea.
Cheers,
John (SPR Models)
This has got to be the best motorsport wesite around and as has already been said no nastys or bitches here. A classic example of this site is the Trekka thread which was posted I would imagine a little tongue in cheek and has developed with a slightly humerous but at the same time very interesting thread with little snippets of information and stories that would never have come to light otherwise. If we as members of this site need to contribute to keep it going then lets do that. I am happy to pay to keep this site up and running. We as a group of enthusiasts cannot afford to loose this asset because once it has gone it will never happen again.
Allan
While I`m 100% for supporting TRS, I think the commercial `incentive/contribution' scheme, while logical, is not going to cut the mustard. I am not knocking those who want to support the website, but mathmatically it doesn`t add up. What Steve needs is a chunk of money to keep the website viable on the basis of being able to support himself while running and progressing it. If you are going to advertise or benefit commercially then some different options/rates need to be established and quite a few businesses - including mine -can get on board. All I can say to those who don`t like the idea of paying a donation of $50.00 annually is turn it around the other way - would you do all this for very little return??? Enjoy life, enjoy everyones contributions, but most of all realise that you are enjoying the benefits of Steves hard work and dedication. Small price to pay really................