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Yep #65 is Rodger. I think the club did very well, large fields and everyone was accommodated for - don't think many of the clubmans cars could be called classics yet races were provided for them as well - entry of just under 40 clubmans cars - not far from turning cars away as grid almost reached its allowed limit.
Look, im not trying to be a "smart ass"(though no doubt JacMac will have something to say) but has anyone down there ever been to a proper "Historic or Classic" racing meeting overseas like Philip Island, Monterey, Goodwood to see how these are actual RUN?????? Classic racing is NOT just about throwing in a left-over old tier one class just because they got no-were to race and then turning around and say HEY, fantastic event we had a LARGE classic field!! atleast Rodgers Mustang looks like it should be in there, Modern BMW Mini's and in the same race as Pre 65, what a JOKE.Quote:
Originally Posted by southspeed
Dale M
I would guess that the examples quoted: Phillip Island, Monterey, and Goodwood have, by comparison with Teretonga, considerable budget sizes to play with. I have visited Goodwood several times and even as a spectator, it has priced itself out of MY realm; Monterey similarly. Goodwood in particular has a number of 'historic' entries that, to be kind, are somewhat questionable in their provenance!!
Given the somewhat more remote area and consequent, smaller fields to draw from at Teretonga, I can't find anything to criticize in the existence of less than purely HISTORIC fields.
I am sure that this is a problem faced by several smaller clubs; promotors and/or circuit owners.
Certainly, in a perfect world, mixed fields of 'moderns' and 'historics' is NOT ideal.........but the world is not perfect and if a compromise can be achieved that satisfies most competitors AND spectatotrs, then what's the harm?
By mixing the 2 formats, the visual image is spoiled.
Remember the reaction in the British Touring Car racing when Volvo ran a station wagon?
As a competitor in the early 90s I was not satisfied when the Porsche 911 -which is a sports car,not a saloon car- were allowed to run in Classic Saloons.
A compromise is just that, another word for bending the rules.
Way out in front probably, :), no seriously John, dont think it raced in the Pre65 class races....probably just as well, some folk around here might complain!Quote:
Originally Posted by John McKechnie
Jac Mac- our boy who does the mobility modifications was talking to me yesterday , and said you like to get it out and mix it with everybody and anybody. Word is it can show a few F5000 the way home.
Wow! Is this the Ralt RT4 driven by Jacques Laffite in the 1982 Australian Grand Prix? I think it was owned by Bob Jane at the time. Isn't it amazing where these cars suddenly surface. Is it NZ owned or was it visiting for this event?Quote:
Originally Posted by southspeed
That is the ex Laffite car as Steve stated. It is owned by Barry Leitch and has been for many years. It has been restored to race condition and looks a picture on and off the track. At the speedfest it had a problem and did not stretch its leg to its full potential. The other Ralt RT4 is owned by Garry Orton. I understand that Barry has fixed the problem with the car and both cars have been invited to appear at the opening of the new track at Cromwell over Easter weekend.
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22 of these Formula Alantic cars can be accounted for in New Zealand with a the chance of a series being put together for them in the future
That would be AB? Yes, JO is happiest at the wheel, golf perhaps being 2nd [ damned if I can see where the enjoyment is in that:)], & I think they would be pretty average F5000's! Its just a reasonably sorted package, was not always that way, handled like a feral cat the first time I drove it back about 04/05, you knew it was going to bite, the question was when! Once the causes of that were removed it became a joy to drive. So many of those causes were bad design of some components & previous owner modifications done without thought ( caliper mounts that caused the caliper to twist under load & chassis tube removal that caused rear suspension bind under load are just a couple of examples, funny thing is/was the more we brought stuff back closer to TVR OE examples the better it got.... and yes there are some other areas that would benefit from similar thinking- perhaps to the tune of ~1.5 seconds a lap.... cant do that though, the knockers would not be happy!)Quote:
Originally Posted by John McKechnie
Wow, 22 cars! I'm blown away by that. Its rare to see anything more than 2 or 3 at most events. I guess the issue has been providing an event and making the effort to bring them all together at one time. But that would be quite something to see. I know Formula Atlantic/Pacific polarized people, they were either loved or hated after years of booming F5000 racing. But I always thought they were pretty cars that sounded fantastic. And they brought with them a new kind of race driver, usually younger drivers who were fearless and hugely spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by southspeed
damned if I can see where the enjoyment is in that]
AB and I spent probably 2-3 hours talking about real early days - some would wonder what the enjoyment was in that.
Sounds like the TVR will give yours many more years of enjoyment - investigating and experimenting.
Anyway cant see you taking any notice of the knockers, wheres the fun in that?
Are you running it at Cromwell at Easter meeting at Cromwell?
What classes are they running there do you know?
I have not done much stuff on TVR or others for last couple of years, mainly due to health reasons & subsequent catch up on other stuff as a result- still catching up! Biggest impediment to further improvements is the driver & the current custodian who are somewhat averse to further attention from the 'knocker' lobby...as you suggest it doesnt worry me:)
Not sure whether they got an invite to the Highland Park [Cromwell] opening or not, my understanding is that its invite only & they are concentrating on cars that have past NZ racing history, I know Stewy Q's old Flathead ford special has an invite, plus the current owner of my old MK2 OSCA Cortina also, with Allan Dick as curator at the museum I guess that he would have a fairly large 'shopping list' of potential invitee's..
Jac-Mac- is Brian Crosbie, that well known Escort man from the early 70s .still around, and can he be contacted?
Sorry, cannot help on that , suggest you contact DJMcD on this site, Donald was a regular contributor to autonews etc around that time & IIRC he penned an article on Brian & the TC Escort when he ran it in either a Silver Fern or Heatway rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by John McKechnie
Dale are you joking?Have the Southern folk ever ran a Classic Meet?? I am a smart ass and have been to most big tracks around the world,I actually feel sorry for some of these so called Muscle car owners ,example $ 2000 spent on fuel in a couple of days ?//lower the comp. and only be a sec. slower , The Cars are the Stares, what BS,John what is the differance between a Porsche and a Mazda Rx7 to run as a saloon,why arnt the world championship winning Jags included as a Muscle car??/ .In the 90s The Southen Festival of Speed had seventeen cars from the USA plus five from Aussie plus Hong Kong ect ,only two of them went North to run ,and each year they returned to the SI and what great events they were..Wigram what well run events they were ,and to be honest I have heard more than a couple of race hardend folk saying the Denny meet was not that good to agree rather sadens me .And as far as the cars are the Stars Rays list is out on its own{only my opinion,give me an old Buckler anytime than some shiny yank tank .Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiboss
And I did not have to say a word!:)
And neither did I, talk about arrogance!!
And while you are talking Jags, Jim, dont forget Scott Wisemans E-type was also classified as a saloon for the Mercury and other races.I thought you would have bought that to my attention as well.
Definition of a saloon car -anything that has 4 wheels.E-type, 911,RX7
Definition of a sports car -anything that has 4 wheels.E-Type, 911, RX7
And in the 70s single seaters ran with sports car.
So lets have a race meeting where we get rid of all this class rubbish- Suzukis against Supertourers .Bucklers against F5000.
After all, they all have one thing in common-they are racecars.
Get your cheque book out Jim, you could buy mine!:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by jim short
No I like the one on TM,a real one
John the ans. is the distance between the front screen and the rear screen, a Rx7 is a quater of an inch longer than the Porsche 911, the Mazda is Ok were the Porsche fails ,I suprised myself by knowing such a tecnichal mater when at the same time didnt realize all those cars you listed could actually run together,I will put it down to a lack of interest through growing old, but thanks for helping, I will make a note so as not to forget and as a thank you will send some fresh FIGJAM just madeQuote:
Originally Posted by John McKechnie
Boys, just lets settle down here or things will get nasty, and we dont want that do we.
When Angus and I went the Sth Island a couple of years ago, fields that we struck down there were completely different to what we raced in up here. At Teretonga, my favourite track to drive on just incidentally, we had just about everything in the under 3L 'Classic saloon race....pre 65's, BMW E30, 300 HP Escort, Mini 7, Morris 1100, Alfa Romeo 1750, Daihatsu charade, Lotus Elan, Datsun 1600...... you name it , it was there.......because the organisers didnt receive enough entries in those classes for a grid, and we were all lumped together. I know all this is a bit different from some meetings where 900HP Porsches are pitted against Minis, but hey, I certainly competed against things I would never have raced with up in the Nth Island, and this is what happens when event organisers dont have the luxury of a big entry.
Everyone behaved themselves and we had a whale of a time. Even the 300 HP Escort behaved itself!!!!! I even managed to pass the Ford round the outside of the big sweeper, and we all know what a useless driver I am!!!!! Even managed to stage a dead heat heat with the 1100.......have it on film.
You either do this amalgamation thing or you dont have a race. I think I know which choice we would all prefer. I presume you were not joking John!!!!!!!!!
Anyway the Sth Island has always been a bit different.......'viva la differance'.........
And what do you think my one is? I hope you are not leaping to conclusions! Swing front axle, de Joux body, narrow non alloy period wheels, supercharged 100e. (and a LOT cheaper).Quote:
Originally Posted by jim short
Gerald- your FIGJAM never goes amiss.
Always happy to find ways to stop you getting old.
Is it a family recipe passed down from father to son in the traditional way?.
Now getting back on track, tell us about G.Fogg and his performance with the MK 4 at the concourse around 1970-according to Motorman there was FIGJAM there also.
Or do we need a new thread for that and let this thread get back to Teretonga
Actually prefer that Austin Sports $16000
Unfortunately most people don’t seem to get it about Historic and Classic racing!
The more ‘wrong’ cars you allow in to race, the more ‘right’ cars stay away next time!
O
ver and over again you hear that the promoter has had to let in non-confirming cars because numbers are down, when in reality taking a stand may be tough the first year, but would reap benefits in the years to come.
Short term gain for the promoter, but long term deficit in the fields in the future.
Most people want a level playing field in largely the correct field of cars that gives everyone their place in the structure.
There are some people who obviously don’t care about inequality and will just race, but the majority of us are like children who quickly cry “not fair, not fair!”, and end up taking the toys away.
Come on Amco .things were getting a bit quite,and we didnt all have your upbringing ,and by debating against each other it is fun ,just nothing after the sun goes down or sleep is hard to find
I thank God I am not one of the majority,I love the cars and the racing and take your cars away ,even on my own I enjoy driving on a race track,,Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerT
Ok we are getting way off track here so quick replys.
John it was JIM who was offering the fig jam.....at least I THINK that was what he was offering.
Jim, I never have anything after sundown EXCEPT things that help me sleep!
Back to John......the Mk4 Jaguar at the Easter rally at Rotorua......if that is what you are referring to......won everything, concours, gymkhana, and road trial.......pure beginers luck. Ask Dave Silcock....he was there......as was Jim, and as he said they were the greatest ever JDC rallys.
Racer T.......if the promoters had been tough at that event there would have been 3 cars on the grid in the 'Classic Saloons'.....but at least I would have been guaranteed a podium. A long way to go for a 3 horse race!
Lastly Jim again........as you know I stayed at school till I was 27, so even I managed to pick up something, if only how to write rubbish on TRS.
What Racer T is trying to say if you guys care to listen is, that you may have 3 cars at the first event, next year 6, the following 12(as proven at overseas H&C events) and on and on and because "actual" classic racers will see this happening they will come and GUESS WHAT, you will eventually have a real "actual Classic" race meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMCO72
But OOOOOH no we can't have that can we!! Modern BMW Minis in a Pre 65 race, you guys have friggen got me!! Whats next? calling a SI Supertourer round a "Classic" race meeting, yeah that sounds about rite.
Dale M
It will be interesting to see what the fields and mix of cars are like for the invitation only meeting at Cromwell next weekend
I am sure that you & kiwiboss will find something to moan about even though you have not entered or been invited.
This often happened at the Country Gents meetings at Wigram when we had many calls from NI racers wondering why they had not received an invite & offer of starting money to attend.
Nothing has changed!
Here's Gerald and Angus in mixed company at the Speedfest - Teretonga Park 2011
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I was in Brammells office with Dave thirty years ago when some Poser who had not entered ,on seeing how many good cars had entered he decided he would enter his new Lambo? srry you are to late ,,but its a Lambo sorry not able to print yhe rest or Amco will growl me ,they took no prisners at the Country Gents in those days ,But what a Hui it was Jazz band ,hot meals all sorts. real champne,now my eyes are worn out,But well organized for real
Classic meetings were born at Wigram.
I could not belive that all who came to the big party in the tent were greeted with a bottle of Champange.
Think I got back to the office about Tuesday!
Yes Jim I'm sure those Wigram Country Gents meetings were a HOOT. They were started by a couple of private school lads who between them owned half of Banks Peninsular and knew how to operate. They of course wanted to 'exercise' their type 35 Bugatti and Aston Martin DB3S cars legally, and of course the whole thing grew from there. They could AFFORD to be fussy. They couldnt have cared less if only they turned up. As you say, you are quite happy just being out doing skids by yourself, and so were they. Hiring the air-base was no problem as some of them had direct connections to the place.
But this has usually been the case in Motoracing.......it is the preserve of the well-to-do......usually. [bang bang.....me being shot down]
And dont talk to me about the 'After Match Function'. The feed we got served up at Teretonga was something else......real food, real southern hospitality, and they didnt try to fill you up on bloody bread rolls!!!!!!
I think the Teretonga meeting is a club meeting, not a "Classic Meeting" but with a Classic Theme. Perhaps if Dale Mathers is so concerned about the type of entries at Teretonga he could organise a large group of HMC cars to visit the South Island. Interisland travel is possible. Ask the South Islanders who travel to HD each year. I am sure the race promoters would be very pleased to have them.
Oh well, I suppose Dale wont be coming down for any of that southern hospitality in the future, :) just as well, it will save me having to explain why he has to race his 'Hot Rodded' 350+ cu in Boss 302 clone in with all the other hot rods like Brendans Camaro & JO's TVR, or perhaps they might just let him race with those pesky BMW minis......................... Now back to the pics from the meeting which I started this thread for, southspeed, have you got any pics from the rear of the TVR, that should at least make Dale feel comfortable as its the view he usually see's of it!
Amco, I suggest you keep quiet about stuff of which you know nothing. The Country Gents movement was actually the brain child of one Harland Baker who at the time owned Huka Lodge. The first meeting was a sprint held on the road into the lodge. Harland and Allan Bramwell were mates and Bramwell decided this was a good thing as at that time the was nowhere you could run a classic or motor cycle or even a Porsche or Ferrari other than the odd one make club meetings. The Club was made up of friends of Bramwell's and the two gentlmen you mentioned were but just two of many. To give you some idea of the make up ; the two Bain brothers, Ewen Sarggison, Leon Witty, Bill Clark, Willis Brown, myself and a few more. A fair mix I would say and certainly not silver spoon as you are trying to infer. The first meeting in mid 1970's I think, was held at Ruapuna and a proper rental was paid. When this was denied to us by the actions of MSNZ, or whatever it was then, we were invited to Wigram. The Air force provided the man power and took the gate takings, which they then donated to charity. We ,the club never advertised the event as we had no interest in wether people came to watch or not the Air Force did all that. The events were fully financed by the competitors entry fees. It was so easy to do, estimate the likely numbers, get quotes for the marque and the catering, alcohol etc and divde that figure by the number of entries and that was the fee. We ran these hugely popular events untill 1995 despite MSNZ best efforts to shut us down. After this Bramwell decided to retire and there did not seem to be the will to carry on. I resigned some time after this as for no particular reason nothing was happening. And no it had nothing to do with the fatality we had.