Shano, totally agree, read the EXTRA on the end of the guidelines! :)
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Shano, totally agree, read the EXTRA on the end of the guidelines! :)
...at the risk of the of the Whanau Brothers gettin a cheap flight to Australia,the Morris Minor was 'tounge in Check',I've done a deal as stated to own this great little car with a history,what started this 'flash back' was a class/event they have in the States
you have a budget of $5000 to buy,build,blast around,this car that I saw on this site was a dark green Morris Minor two door,it actually featured in 'Vintage Racer' magazine,I shall try to find the thread/forum..........its a real ,"Shit yea lets do that"!!!!
Oldfart,I don't wish to get into designing this concept,which by the way certainly has merrit,perhaps we have to look at the '30% rule'...as 30% modified EG;change the carb because lack of parts/ava,but new carb must have same venturi size (600cfm)and side draft if that was how it was in its stock configuration,I was involved with a simular concepts on a USA based vehicle,I bailed from the reg discussions when they were contemplating 'New' gen Blocks to get around the up30th bore size,I would rather bore the block than shell out for a new one......but I'm propably drifting...opps is that a knock at the door,,Phew!!! cant be the Bro's they wouldnt Knock........regards thunder427/:)MJ
hey Oldfart 105e is out would a 107e be ok
[QUOTE=thunder427;5729]...at the risk of the of the Whanau Brothers gettin a cheap flight to Australia,the Morris Minor was 'tounge in Check',I've done a deal as stated to own this great little car with a history,what started this 'flash back' was a class/event they have in the States
you have a budget of $5000 to buy,build,blast around,this car that I saw on this site was a dark green Morris Minor two door,it actually featured in 'Vintage Racer' magazine,I shall try to find the thread/forum..........its a real ,"Shit yea lets do that"!!!!:)
..Found it ,check this out www.youtube/watch?v=hG5Av8DBvsl .........this the green Minor in action....regards thunder427/MJ:cool:
OK, serious question here Oldfart. In your wording on engines in the guidelines you've put together so far say this:
"Engine
To be a version of the engine supplied with the car as sold new, or a common conversion. Ie one off engine transplant is not acceptable, but where this was not uncommon would be allowed. Onus of proof as above.
Modifications to the engine".
A "common conversion" for pre-war American coupes in NZ road racing was to fit an OHV V8 into them. I have a 1938 Ford Deluxe coupe that I'm slowly building as a tradtional hot rod, using all period parts, eg, 15" Mercury wheels, cross-ply tyres, 4-wheel drum brakes, etc. If I were to look into finishing the car as a double-threat-coupe, ie, one that could be used on the road and raced, can I fit an OHV V8 engine in place of the flathead, as a "common conversion" if the engine is pre-1960? As stated, the OHV V8s were a common conversion during this period. But, in your wording you've also said "one off engine transplant is not acceptable", so can you clarify?
A 1938 Ford coupe on cross-ply tyres with 4-wheel drum brakes would be bloody slow, even with a more powerful engine, but would be a lot of fun!
A likely candidate?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedlinz...in/photostream
Sorry to take so long with a response for you Steve. Sounds just fine according to the group, as long as the engine and it's mods are from the period.
QUOTE=nigel watts;5944]A likely candidate?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedlinz...in/photostream[/QUOTE]
It will buff up just fine. Anyone remember the Guardsvan which ran in the group 5 days ay Puke etc?
It will buff up just fine. Anyone remember the Guardsvan which ran in the group 5 days ay Puke etc?[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfart
...... Now there is a thought!!!!!....Bruce Kinsett / Vanguard / Blue / Waimate area possible, down south of ChCh at least, ran at Wigram with Heasley/Sprauge etc, late 60's...........regards thunder427/MJ
Thanks for your responce. Thats great!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfart
...... Now there is a thought!!!!!....Bruce Kinsett / Vanguard / Blue / Waimate area possible, down south of ChCh at least, ran at Wigram with Heasley/Sprauge etc, late 60's...........regards thunder427/MJ[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder427
I only saw it at Puke, notable commentators comment was along the lines of " and here comes the Guardsvan at the end of the train"
Right, I took Oldfarts advice and applied for, and got, a Historic Racing licence from the VCC. Piece of cake, cheap, and lasts for 5 years. I have now applied for a COD for the Amco mini from the club, but this is not quite so instant. But thats OK, I am a patient man, sometimes. Apparently there needs to be some 'discussion' among the officials to determine whether the car meets the criteria of the club. However, we have a problem straight away......there is a cut-off date of 1960 for cars participating in speed events. Can someone tell me why that is. Surely if a vehicle is accepted in the club as a p60 then it should be able to participate in ALL events, not just non speed events. Which brings me back to Oldfarts class of 1950's saloons with no, or minimal, modifications. Surely these are already catered for in the VCC, although, yes his won't have to have rego and wof. I think people are going to be put off having to spend money on cars that will only have a couple of meetings a year, without having to cart them all over the country. I have written to the Speed steward of the VCC asking for his comments on the 1960 cut-off, but so far a deafening silence has ensued. Oldfart, you seem to be up to speed, as it were, with VCC stuff, perhaps you can enlighten me on this perplexing problem, and perhaps that is why you have suggested this new class because you have come up against officialdom.
I have just got my latest copy of NZ Classic Driver, and lo-and-behold the ubiquitous Allan Dick is questioning this very topic in 'smoking a grey pipe'. He calls the decision, a 1960 cut off'...daft!!!!!! He goes on to call into question COD's and how the Custaxie is side-lined at the present because it doesn't quite meet 'requirements'. Could include Harold Heasly's Humber 80 in that too. It ran without bumpers in the old days, but these appendages are being insisted upon by officialdom. The Humber is still a very 'original as raced' car so cant understand this thinking at all. For Gods sake do we want to see these cars or not?????
I think the issues with the "Custaxie" are different to the Heasley Humber 80. If the Humber is in the configuration it ran in period then it can run today under MSNZ regulations. The problem with the "Custaxie" as I understand it, was that the replica was meant to be built to MSNZ regulations that allowed for such cars to be built as they were in period - that is what they were meant to represent. However, the "Custaxie replica" was not as it was in period in that it used a number of modern bits that improved it from what it originally was.
I think the rationale was that if it represented that it was the Custaxie then it should be as close to original as possible - if it was just a Custaxie look-a-like with say, modern big disc brakes then it shouldn't be called the Custaxie.
Gerald, I would love to see a class come together for original racing saloons that actually competed in NZ up to, say, 1973. This would be for the actual cars, or acurate replicas of, if the original no longer exists. It would encompass the actual cars of the late '50s, the early '60s, the Allcomers, Group 2, and Group 5, that raced up until 1973. It'd be interesting to put together a list of cars that would fit. I think there would be quite a reasonable number.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMCO72
Good thinking Steve, and I wonder just how many original cars, or nearly so, are out there. As far as Minis are concerned,not many, as a lot of the old BNSW and early Shellsport cars were converted to Mini 7's where life is measured in months rather than years. The problem is that owners are unwilling to risk their machines in the current series of races. For example, Alan Drinkrow has just had the Arden Mini restored by Paul Costin in Christchurch at vast expense. Is a magnificent job, but we are unlikely to see it on the track....maybe a demonstration but that would be all. Graeme Philips has purchased BK842, the car his Father Barry campained so successfully in the early 70's, and although it is a long way from completion, it too will be only driven at selected venues in demonstration mode. You can understand these guys in their thinking and I am a bit biased that way too, and although Angus and I have campained the Amco Mini at a number of meetings in the North and South Islands, I am always mindfull of those competitors around me who are SOMETIMES not that careful where they are placing their cars during racing. As the repairing of damage will be done by Angus, I am doubly careful. So as you say, if everybody's car in a race had good history, one would expect the driving to be of a very high caliber, as far as giving racing room and respecting the other guys machinery. I remember at the start of Classic racing in the mid 80's there was zero tolerance to panel damage, and owners would be asked to remove themselves and their cars from the track for misdemeanors. Fine the first year, then everyone started to get keen, and BANG. Ray Green doesnt stand any nonsense from his AES/Tradezone series either, but this doesn't stop things happening in the heat of racing. So somehow we have to strike a happy medium. I dont really want to toddle around 'demonstrating' my car, equally I dont want to be T-Boned at the infield hairpin at HD, so there has to be a solution. At the moment that solution lies somewhere between VCC racing and Festival of Speed events. Yes???
A lot of interesting comments there and all worth considering ,I think there comes a time when cars become perhaps too valuable and unique to consider risking damaging them,and over the years I feel I have fixed enough panel damage ,most of it inflicted by other peoples stupidity I might add .when my Escort sports Sedan turns a wheel again like wise it will be for demonstration purposes only.
However the idea of having something else that is not so unique appeals to me ,thats why that 1960 series sounds ok and why I am quite adamant that the mods be restricted to "period " ,I don't think you want a whole lot of people rushing off and building things with alloy adjustable shocks ,four wheel disc brakes ,carbon fibre etc,that will just kill the whole thing before it even gets a chance .I have some firm ideas on what and what not should be allowed,and no way should the flood gates be opened ,I have already heard some comments from quarters about what they are going to do ,and I think it needs to be discouraged before it even starts.I would value other folks thoughts on this
It would have to be approached like any class for historic racing cars Gerald, in that the cars themselves are the most important thing, and that enjoying them and allowing others to enjoy seeing them given a high speed outing is what the class is for. The owners need to feel comfortable that those around them aren't going to tear the side off their car just to win a corner. Like you say, if all the cars are historically significant, the owners should all be like minded.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMCO72
Maybe we should start another thread on this subject to see how many cars still exist that would be suitable?
Yes, I agree with you Bob. Historic racing saloons in NZ, even those built in the '80s for Sports Sedan racing, are now important, significant cars, and should be looked upon as such. I think NZ has some catching up to do in this regard to historic racing saloons. Look at the importance placed on historic Trans-Am cars, and historic IMSA cars in the US now. These cars are still raced, but not at 100%, and there is no emphasis placed on winning, as enjoying the cars for what they are is now more important. They've served a purpose in a previous life to win races. Now they are enjoyed for their history and uniqueness.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob homewood
The pre-60s saloons is a great idea. It appeals to me also Bob. Not because I want to use it as stepping stone to V8 Supercar racing, but just because I imagine it'd be fun to slide about in an old car built for enjoyment. I think this is what Oldfart had in mind when he first mooted the concept. I agree with you. Certain details would need to be nailed down tight before it gets going.
Unfortunately gentlemen we are talking about motor-RACING here, and with the best will in the world, and the best intentions not to do anything silly, I'm afraid it will still happen, that once the lights go out, it's all on. When I am sitting on the grid waiting for this to happen, my accelerator foot is shaking so badly, that I am mentally booking myself into the specialist to check for Parkinsons!!!!! It's called adrenalin, and it needs to be got rid of, quickly, and the way to do it is to drive like a dick-head. Havent you noticed that about half-way through a race things start to calm down, and hey-presto your lap times come down.....amazing.