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Time for another addition of photos from Steve Twists excellent and very enjoyable collection.
All the photos in this installment are from Levin, and all appear to have been taken during the 1967/68 season. This was the first year in which New Zealand had introduced its international FIA Group 5 regulations for saloon car racing, which brought about a raft of new machinery to NZ shores.
Steve is obviously a tin-top enthusiast, as saloon racing dominates this portion of photos.
More to follow.....
OK, here we go.
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I love seeing the small capacity images, as these cars often get overlooked.
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Briliant stuff, brings back so many memories.
This is the final batch for this part. Part 6 will be posted soon, and includes some great looking production car photos from Pukekohe, which I'm really looking forward to sharing. Thanks again to Steve Twist for these wonderful photos.
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Both Steve's, thanks so much. What classic photos. Oh how has the geometry of suspension etc changed. Also the style of clothing and love the home grandstand on the roof. Imagine that today.
Isn't that the truth Rod! Someone must have told Red Dawson that Mustangs handle better with the nose pointing skywards, because that thing of his is really jacked up. Even parked in the pits it looks like its about to be shot into space. The thing I love about these photos are the crowds. They're so close to the action, and they're really packed in tight.
That first Red Dawson Mustang was the ex Sedgiden car. Wasn't that basically a mildly modified road car, always looked exciting, but once the Shelby car of Fahey and the ex Geoghagan Shelby car of Coppins came along it took all of Red's skills and bravery to keep up. Things came right for Red when he got the proper TA car from Frank Barry/Bryan.
The racing was certainly great in those days with cars that had more grunt than grip.
Yes, the ex Segedin car Gavin. It was built from a road car, unlike the others around it. I think the motor had some good bits in it though, although it did have a tendancy to break. But all those Mustangs were quite different to each other. The Fahey and Barry/Bryan cars were the best. John Riley commented on this once in an interview as he owned both the Geoghegan/Coppins car, and the Fahey car. He said the difference between the Geoghegan and Fahey Mustangs were huge. And the Geoghegan car was a lot better than the Segedin car. So the fact Dawson is up there battling these cars in his converted road car says a lot about his abilities as a driver.
It always puzzled me that the first Geoghegan car never went as good once sold to Rod, and later to Johnny. Was it missing some of the bits that the car had when raced in Aussie, or was it now a slightly tired well used up car against the newer versions?
I think a lot of people never gave credit to Red as a driver, of course, like Johnny Riley, he wasn't part of the snobby in crowd having come from a background in stockcars and old American coupes, and even though they both went well in the Lola sportscars they never got the credit they deserved, especially Red. But, the crowds loved Red, and that is more important.
Both Red and John were great guys and true enthusiasts. Despite being a direct competitor to John's son Brett, they were both more than generous to me personally with time and advice and more importantly, Mrs J Riley used to feel sorry for the "impoverished" corner of the pits and fed us!
The pit area was divided into the "establishment" and the "outlaws" and John and Red were definitely the later. It always paid to be near their pits for the after match!
Gavin, I had read somewhere that Rod had suggested to Pete Geoghegan after buying the car and being disappointed by its performance that maybe some of the good bits had been removed prior to him being handed the keys. I believe this was when Coppins and Fahey (and Dawson) all raced at the single race ATCC at Warwick Farm in 1968. Geoghegan jumped in the car and immediately posted some very fast lap times. I think it might have been the Bowdens who told me this. I guess it could be true. The fact is some cars are suited to some peoples driving styles and not to others. Geoghegan had John Shapperd build that car to his unique driving style. But that car definitely wasn't as good as either the Fahey or Bryan/Dawson Mustangs.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallmall
Just out of interest, Coppins qualified 17th at Warwick Farm, on 1:48.8. Geoghegan was on pole with his newer GTA Mustang on 1:42.8. Fahey qualfied in 6th on 1:44.7, and Dawson on 1:45.8. Dawson was in the Bryan Trans-Am Mustang. But Coppins was still three places ahead (and 1.5 seconds faster) of Bryan Thomson in the old Norm Beechey Mustang.
Coppins proved his worth when he took over the driving of the Spinner Black Camaro.
One wonders if Fahey and Dawson were actually pushing their cars at Warwick Farm, I guess they got a bit of money from the promoter, but really the cars were only over there to avoid NZ taxes had they remained here for a full 12 months.
I agree that Big Pete did have a very unique driving style having witnessed him waving the front wheels in the air as he powered through corners in that Mustang at WF. Certainly Rod was a very smooth driver and required a totally different set up.
Yeah thats a good point Gavin, although its hard to imagine either Fahey or Dawson being happy just to make up the numbers. But touring car racing at that time wasn't particularly close. Norm Beechey qualified 2nd, but was 2/3rds of a second slower than Geoghegan, and 3rd man Bob Jane was a full second slower. In modern day V8 Supercar racing, where all the cars are identicle, 1 second covers the whole field.
I think you need to look back on the Dawson,Riley era you are talking about and consider just how much "raw " talent they actually had ,they went from car to car driving them well and doing well in them .I think you need to sit down and consider the change in going from a old over powered V8 coupe to something like the Lola sports cars and single seaters they drove ,they are light years apart and consider how many times did they damage them .If you are considering the Coppins / Geoghegan issue,you have to remember we had basically no opportunities to test in those days,it all happened on one day ,usually a few untimed laps of practice ,a handful of timed ones ,a couple of races and then it was all over for the day ,when Rod went over there he probably got a test run on the day before on a unfamiliar track and then he was into it ,how many laps of say Warwick Farm ,had Geoghegan done in testing and racing there over the years ?.I look at all the opportunities people have to test these days and the miles and time they spend beating around the track and then look back and think well , we all didn't do such a bad job back then considering....
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Originally Posted by Steve Holmes
I have heard this yarn a couple of times as well, and my understanding is that it occurred at Lakeside, which would make it 1967. After the grumbling, Geoghegan posted a sub-record time in the car, and upon returning to the pits said "I think we know what the problem is"...
I've left the stuttering out of the riposte...
Coppins may not have had stellar results in the car, but it was quite a beast in its' own right, and at Bay Park at Easter 1968 appeared with Gurney Weslake heads and an audibly-delightful eight-into-one exhaust with an oblong collector pointing the wicked howl left just in front of the rear wheel....HORN !!
That car had a great sound - HORN for sure - GD that sounds just like a Superbike Champ. Robbie Phillis comment. If I can get back from NZ will see you at the Southern Classic! Cheers PFQuote:
Originally Posted by GD66
I noticed the exhaust hanging low in the photos , did not realise it was 8 into one, my sympathies to to the guy that fabricated that setup:):)
From memory ,when John Sheppard worked on the Geoghegan Mustang ,he had Bo Seton.build the eight into one system ,I believe Bo possibly built one for the Bryan Thompson Mustang also at a later date ,but as usual with the passing of time I can stand to be correctedQuote:
Originally Posted by Jac Mac
Yes, good point, it could well have been '67, as he and Fahey raced there that year also in the ATCC, at Lakeside as you've said.Quote:
Originally Posted by GD66
Thats what I thought too Bob, that Geoghegan ran an 8-1 exhaust on that car that exited in a nice chrome mage-phone just beneath the front of the door on the passenger side. Geoghegan also ran a full length exhaust that exited out the rear just briefly too. Both systems were quite different to that pictured above. When Coppins raced the car in the '67 ATCC he still had the short chrome pipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob homewood
John Riley commented on the engine note also on this car in an interview. He also said it was a lovely sounding car.
Catalina Park it was ,the end of October 1966 ,they worked the night before finishing that exhaust system off ,Pete missed practice ,started from the back of the grid and still won ,hey that's 45 years ago !!! next weekend and we are still talking about it
Is that when the 8-1 exhaust was first fitted to that car Bob?
Here is what John Riley said of the Geoghegan/Coppins and Fahey Mustangs in a 1971 interview:
"Its (the ex-Fahey Mustang) a nice car to drive, far better handling than Rods. It goes through a corner so much quicker it isn't even funny. I used to wonder how two comparable cars (Rods and Pauls) could be so far apart on the track. Paul was always so much quicker. In the early stages when Rod first bought that car I thought it must have been Rod himself, but since I've driven the two cars myself ..... the difference is unbelievable. The Fahey car had wider wheels, and probably a lot more work done on the suspension. The motor was better also. The Coppins motor had a very early model roller cam which used to help make a beautiful exhaust note but it never had the same torque or power as the Fahey car. I like driving Pauls car however. Its a good car".
Yes I believe so,as I said after that I think Bo made one for Bryan Thompson as well ,I think the Fahey car apart from the wider wheels had a revised front suspension set up as well but thats only from memoryQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Holmes
I guess it must have worked for him, it stayed on that car well into Coppins' ownership. Sure looked neat too.
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Originally Posted by Steve Holmes
One thing that was always noticeable was that Fahey's Mustang (and indeed his Escort) were comparatively very well behaved in the front end. He was obviously a thinker, and really seemed able to sort his cars out. In terms of public appreciation, to me he seemed a little aloof and wasn't as warmly regarded as some, but I'm sure he held everyone's respect for being an innovative and cerebral racer.
Pretty sure I read somewhere that the Fahey car [104] had the inner pivot for the top wishbone dropped [ probably in some Shelby text somewhere ], thats why in the above pics it did not develop as much positive camber under corner load, but with that 8/1 exhaust hanging so low on Rods car [141] he would not have been able to get the car low enough to take advantage of that anyway..
Somewhere possibly if I can still find it I have a photo of the change to the top wishboneQuote:
Originally Posted by Jac Mac