Is classic racing going to survive in NZ?

Well, that is the 2,000,000 views cracked on my Mix of Pics thread!

Pity that with the closure of Pukekohe, closure of the Smales Farm Caffeine and Classics, some miserably small grids at more recent classic meetings, that the opportunities to add to my library and this site are shrinking fast. I have the Goodwood Revival to look forward to next year but I'll only attend Friday (qualifying) and part of Saturday. That might well be for the last time too.

The current small grids worry me. At the recent TACCOC HD meeting, only about 50 cars present. Several long time supporters of local classic racing have decided that they have been priced out with MSNZ and the circuit owners being the main culprits, not helped by one or two CEOs claiming the racing in NZ was too cheap. Excessive regulatory dictates haven't helped.

Maybe those CEOs on fat salaries need to come down to earth and accept that for amateurs, many seemingly on a pension, it is far too expensive and the so called tier 1 racing is a joke, with minimal paying spectators.

Sorry for the rant, but I've been attending race meetings for over 70 years now in many capacities - paying spectator, series organiser, driver, race suit supplier, promoter, commentator, flag marshal and latterly, photographer and I'm now somewhat disenchanted with the sport in NZ.

One or two high profile meetings a year isn't enough to justify the expense of a race licence, plus hardly used seat belts and protective gear after a handful of meetings. They need to wind the clock back a bit and stop treating the genuine amateurs with basic cars like potential V8 Super car or F1 competitors.

Most modern one make, one model series can be boring especially with less than full grids and even our much promoted (on here and Facebook) saloon series with an all Ford grid - bar 1 Vauxhall, hasn't really delivered locally as yet anyway.

Can others see grids improving? At least the south island has several great circuits yet the north island now has just three - and greater Auckland doesn't have any.

I agree with your sentiments Ray. One only has to look at the Targa events of recent times to see this. I well remember when Targa would attract 240 entries with reserves and is now less than 50 entries in the competition section. Cost has a lot to do with it. I worked out that the last time we ran Targa we had $10,000 worth of equipment (ie suits. helmets. seats, harness, roll cage etc) before we even thought about the car, tyres, fuel, service truck, accommodation etc).

not sure where you're looking, but at the classic meeting at Levels last weekend in november there were plenty of machines, i'd say floating on 200 that did laps. Classic racing is booming,

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Originally Posted by jellywrestler

not sure where you're looking, but at the classic meeting at Levels last weekend in november there were plenty of machines, i'd say floating on 200 that did laps. Classic racing is booming,

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I have noted that the South Island events are well supported. Perhaps the allusion to circuit costs have quite a bit to do with it?
The one owner of the majority of North Island circuits did publicly say a while back the "grass roots participants should go and play in paddocks" or words to that effect.

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Originally Posted by Oldfart

I have noted that the South Island events are well supported. Perhaps the allusion to circuit costs have quite a bit to do with it?
The one owner of the majority of North Island circuits did publicly say a while back the "grass roots participants should go and play in paddocks" or words to that effect.

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can you supply asource for that comment, or is it a chinese whisper?

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Originally Posted by jellywrestler

can you supply asource for that comment, or is it a chinese whisper?

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His CEO is certainly one who is guilty of saying that motor racing is too cheap.

An email yesterday from MSNZ asking for their media vest back, as I hadn't renewed the accreditation for 2023/2024.

Next year they are going to charge media for their accreditation. So the very people who are publicising or reporting on MSNZ events are going to be charged for the privilege. I've sent the vest back.

I'd already stated that the South Island has several circuits and we know costs are much cheaper, so it is easier for participants to support events. However, our largest city with the highest number of licence holders no longer has a race track, so my rant was aimed more on behalf of North Island residents/competitors.

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Originally Posted by jellywrestler

can you supply asource for that comment, or is it a chinese whisper?

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No Chinese whisper TQ said it publicly a few years ago! Stop shooting the messenger.

Is the situation such, that there is so many other things to do that are much less expensive than classic racing and as has been pointed out on previous occasions, the cars are now so rare and expensive to buy (and repair) that they tend to sit locked away in sheds.
As I see it many motorsport events are put on for competitors not spectators and therefore do not generate vast gate takings.
We are not the only sport that has problems attracting spectators. As an example look at the crowds (or lack of) at both rugby and cricket matches these days.
There is also the situation where there so many other family-related activities such as fishing, boating and mountain biking that have had the effect of taking our base of hardened fans away from the sport.
I always enjoyed going to Pukekoe but as Ray has pointed out viewing became more difficult with all the safety fences etc that it was easier to stay home where the food was cheaper and the toilets closer and watch on TV.

Jellywrestler of course was talking about a motorcycle classic race meeting. But I suspect there may be lessons to be learned from the bike side. The organising club for classic and post classic racing in the SI is CAMS. In order to keep the sport growing and attract competitors they have long had a policy of adopting new classes as the original bikes become age eligible. At present the most recent period being raced is pre 95. This has had the desired result and CAMS is a growing and flourishing club
The NI equivalent is the Classic register. They amalgamated with the almost moribund Post Classic club but have done very little to encourage post classics. I'm told their active membership is shrinking but I can't vouch for that.
Scanning through the programme for the Southern Classic I'd estimate that about 30% of the entry came from the NI. An interesting figure in these times of tight money.

CAMS of course was George Begg's baby. Started when he fell out with the Auckland based register. Amusingly (from where I stand) the club would have long since failed if it had stuck to George's original vision. He wanted a club based on pre 63 with a high emphasis on pre 55 machinery. Those were the bikes he'd owned and raced and the period he was most interested in. I ran meetings as CoC for George both when he still was Register oriented and in the early days of CAMS.

The US classic bike scene has a very interesting rule of thumb - bikes over 50 years of age should be display or parade machinery. The justification for this is that the people who owned/raced/watched those bikes are no longer around.

We have to move forwards. I inherited Donn White's BMC series back in 1996, when it was limited to 4 cylinder, pre 1977 BMC cars.

Over the years it has been opened up to European cars and also newer 'classic' cars and has survived. In its original format it would have died years ago.

In recent years, Chris and James Watson instigated the 2KCup series and we've seen a massive influx of BMWs, initially through the BMW E series and latterly with 2 litre and open BMW series. Alfa Trofeo has effectively been accepted and/or combined within the ERC Series and now the ERC series has accepted Porsche Boxters and still we aren't getting full grids, whereas not so long ago we had two grids. Currently, part way through the season, 48 drivers registered.

The Hooters Vintage series hasn't really taken off with decent sized grids and the Formula Junior/Formula Ford series has its core supporters but few new participants, despite the number of older Formula Fords that must be around somewhere.

Muscle Cars and the various saloon grids should also be much larger than they are.

Hampton Downs grid limit is 46 saloon cars. When was the last time we saw anything approaching a 46 car grid, even with combined groups now being the norm?

When I last promoted a meeting, break even was $12,000 for one day. That has more than doubled recently - and that is without the MSNZ driver levy and also the safety (sic) levy which obviously doesn't go to the promoter.

You don't need to be a maths whizz to see how that impacts on entry fees or individual racer costs of fuel, tyres, travel , accommodation, clothing, belts, race licence, car club etc.

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Originally Posted by GregT

Jellywrestler of course was talking about a motorcycle classic race meeting. But I suspect there may be lessons to be learned from the bike side..

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exactly, same thing differnt number of wheels, ones flourishing ones not?

[/QUOTE]An email yesterday from MSNZ asking for their media vest back, as I hadn't renewed the accreditation for 2023/2024.

Next year they are going to charge media for their accreditation. So the very people who are publicising or reporting on MSNZ events are going to be charged for the privilege. I've sent the vest back.

[/QUOTE]

Quite agree Ray.

I think I'm done with classic racing for the time being, so haven't bothered renewing my media accreditation.

I also got an email from MSNZ asking for the vest to be returned BUT with the threat of a fine if it wasn't returned by a certain date.

Stuff that, I hate being threatened, so they'll get it back when I bloodywell feel like it.

Merry Christmas everyone.

It would be interesting to see how they'd be able to enforce a fine. BayCorp knocking on your door for a $5 Chinese purchase?

Surprised they didn't want the ID card back too! Just wave a bit of blue reflective at the gate and flash the card and you'll probably still get into a track anyway! I'm sure a bit of judicious use of black paint could update the expiry date...

Merry Christmas to you too and any other regular or irregular contributors.