As was once proclaimed (although I'm substituting Weasels with Turkeys) - "Eagles may soar but Turkeys don't get sucked in to jet engines!!!!!!".........
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As was once proclaimed (although I'm substituting Weasels with Turkeys) - "Eagles may soar but Turkeys don't get sucked in to jet engines!!!!!!".........
“A certain human interfaced device on wheels is now called “Company X 7”. Ha-ha that’s a good one Mike.
Mike, I have worked for many years as a mechanical engineer in NZ and I have never experienced the low level of conduct from NZ citizens as you have experienced here. I don’t know if you have been to NZ but the majority of New Zealanders are actually well educated and very nice people. Most of them in this forum appear not to be in these categories.
Trevor, Neither you or anybody else in this thread have proved anything about your Seven, so why do you keep harassing Mike and threatening him? And the manure thing! You and your mob are the “big slingers” here! Immaturity I may say and how old are you?
Mike, Trevor just doesn’t get it. Apparently he is a man who has nothing better to do than harass people and currently you are his victim joined by some people who are not representing the educated New Zealanders I know.
“Oldfart”, Mike, C.A.M.S. stand for Confederation of Australian Motor Sport and it is very respected (also in NZ), but apparently not according to the “mob” here!! Click on this link for more info: http://www.cams.com.au/Sport/Histori...4%20%20Sc.ashx
Paul, Mike is right. I generalized here, and I apologize to you. I can see that you are one of few who actually has assisted Mike here.
AMCO72, you are absolutely right, you just got it the wrong way around. It is Mike (who I still don’t know!) and I who are in the bar when you “Kiwi mob” come in with your AK 47’s and start shooting in order to preserve national interest. That’s the key problem here. It is good to be country proud but when that comes in the way of exposing the correct history (whatever that is) it is wrong. Threatening Mike to silence just because he want to get the history correct in actual “blackmail” isn’t it Trevor?
Finally if anybody should give an apology here, it should be you Trevor. Read back to this “mother of all treads” and you will see Trevor that you actually started your treats in your #81. Before that there had been no treats about legal actions and slander. You started this and may I say, you have not contributed with one shred of evidence to justify harassing or threatening other people. Further you have never answered Mikes question: “Trevor how much research have you done on the Lotus 7?”
So Trevor when you immaturely wrote: “The required testicles and intestinal fortitude being sadly lacking. However let it be clear that, in spite of of a great deal of bovine manure excreted from a confirmed steer in hiding”, you are actually talking about yourself.
Mike, believe me, don’t get the wrong impression of New Zealand because the majority of New Zealanders are nice people, you were just very very unlucky here.
Mike, I have sent you a PM.
Cheers,
John
First off I know bugger all about the Lotus Legacy (except if it was a Cortina give it to me) and a little F1/single seater history.
Mike, sorry but I do feel you started throwing it and as you should know by now, it can be thrown back. I also feel the first character assasination did not come from this side of the globe. And another point ! we may be close to Australia in your mind (do you think that was diplomatic, or outright shit stirring), but this country has supplied some of the best mechanics and designers in most motorsport catagories over the years world wide, and still do. It is a pity that this has turned personal, and I feel that the hatchet should be buried as things may be "said/written" that do not need to be.
I have heard of most names (NZ) mentioned in this thread over the years and hold them in regard as intelligent and knowledgable motorsport people.
Cheers
PS John, Must be something about Officialdom and Sports Sedans, as we all parked ours up back in mid 90s because "the brick wall"
It looks a wee bit like a Mini special, that was built and designed by that master of glass-fibre....Ferris deJoux.
No, and do you know what. You should take heed of the comment made when you traded the Leitch for the S4......'you have left a beautiful woman for her UGLY sister'. I predict that you will never be happy with that 'eyesore', and suggest that forthwith you trade the UGLY sister for a beautiful woman again. Even when she is giving you grief with another breakdown, she will still be gorgeous to look at when you lift the sheets!!!!!!!
I think that the S4 may be one of those cars that you need to see 'in the flesh' Some cars do not photograph well, and the lines are not truely appreciated until you actually see them. A bit like 'that other GTO'. In a lot of photos the car just looks gauky, but when you actually see the entire machine, it still looks a bit gawky, but much more pleasing to the eye than a picture. I'm not being rude to you about 'the love of your life' [well almost], it just doesn't 'do' anything for me, unlike the sweet little Leitch. To be honest, I haven't seen either of them in the flesh, so I'm talking through a hole in my hat!!!!!!
Personally I quite like the look of the S4 although I am more than unlikely to ever own one as I have a sickness for Escorts, Mk1's in particular! I do remember being taken for a ride in a brand new S4 back in the 70s which as a young fella thought was pretty impressive. It went like a raped ape in comparrison to the 1100 big block Escort I was driving at the time :)
Nothing wrong with the appearance of the S4 or the body design, all of which should be considered on a strictly practical basis.
.........'all of which should be considered on a strickly practical basis'........not sure that I follow you Trevor. Please explain to a Philistine like me.
The body may not be an aesthetically pleasing work of sculptured art or cosmetically attractive, but it conforms with what is required in order to make it useful and practical. This in contrast to artistic rubbish, into which engineers are called upon to insert the required works. As a result practical soles like me judge it pleasing and certainly find nothing wrong with it. Howsat! LOL
mmmmmmmmm......there are a few words that I need to look up in the dictionary, but I sort of get your drift. I certainly dont study car design with any degree of professionalism; I just take a look....if I like it, thats good, if I don't..... well, mmmmm; I'm very prone to making instant decisions, which on reflection, don't always stand too much scrutiny.My decisions on the S4 have all been based on pictures, and as I said, I need to see the thing in the flesh. I'm wondering if you could give me an example of, in your opinion, artistic rubbish!! I could think of a few myself......I wonder if they match yours.
mmmmmmmm --- I could and would, but with due consideration consider it best not to take this thread way off topic.
I dont think i could fall in love with a car shaped like a brick!!
Attachment 6861
One of these? Just take it as far as possible, yes I do know I should have shut the bonnet properly!
Paul, maybe a different colour/paint scheme will change looks, look what a bit of make up does for Elton.
If and when driving an S4 for any length of time, just where and how do you guys rest your left foot?
Hi Paul,
Nice to see your thread back on track. :)
Any pics of the rear axle, suspension etc? Is it standard stuff or some trick stuff?
My restauration is going as plannede. Had the car for an MOT for the first time in 10 years! It fail!! On one point only: Hand brake to loose. I will se how i fix it since I have converted to disks...
Car at as it sits today:
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...7032012542.jpg
I had a Super 907 frame a few years back - and an S4. The S4 had not been driven since 1978 - and when I picked it up was suprised it came with a spare TC engine.
Haven't read the earlier posts but I think the Steels bought the licence to make 50 cars - and bought 50 engines. Those were all Big Valve but the last 50 odd had the earlier small valve engine - they came from Australia unused from the Escort production. Because mine was a 'first 50' it was a "genuine Lotus" one. I think Steels just kept on making them after the 50 and I doubt either them or Lotus really cared.
Good luck with the new car - as your say very ugly! Aghhh..
The McGregor Seven guy from Chch had the moulds for the Super 907 I think.
I think if it were mine, I'd have two bodies, and keep the black one with rear wing set aside for one day should you decide to sell it, or if you decide you do like it afterall, and want to fit it again. I guess thats part of the problem with owning a historical car, it might not be to your own tastes, but it is what it is, and to a certain degree, you're just a caretaker, preserving it for the next generation.
I guess I only say that because I also have an interest in pre-1960 historic hot rods and kustom cars, many of which were simply aweful. But they are also historical, and its nice to see them restored or preserved to how they once were.
Of course, having said that, I also have no idea whats involved in swapping bodies on a Lotus 7. it could well be too big of a job.
Its a curious design addition is that wing! I guess there was supposed to be some sort of tie in with the F1 cars? Do you know why it was created? I like that its been done, its different, and, like you say, is quite fitting of the time. Today they'd just add a wing mounted on a couple of alloy struts, but this is pure '70s excess, so its quite cool in its own way.
Hopefully all shall be revealed soon on your car Paul.
Hey Paul, I came across this thread by accident, I am Rex Nalders son, The old man had this car when I was a teenager I am now late 40s. The car was purchased early 80s from a prison officer in Turangi, The old man did some research, and found out that the car was built as a factory show car by Steele bros, was approx 2in wider than stock and was plain black, only one of its kind. Car also handled like it was on rails, as he had suspension strapped down (literally with wide leather straps) he had all the rear spare wheel mount filled, no holes - was raced on wide 13in hotwire mags. Engine was a stock 1600 twin cam (mild work). He took it to wigram and was second fastest car (fastest, 930 turbo porsche) punched it off start, big oil surge, destroyed engine! Jamie aselby(rotorua) rebuilt engine, dry sump, 48 weber side draft carbs(not on exaust side),headers custom built through side of car 1pc, wild cam, built to run at 13:1 comp I think he was also running double valve springs combined with competition alpha romeo pistons .Car was later sold to some clown who was gonna "drag" it in Auckland - he would have owned car approx 3-5yrs and old man is a perfectionist,so car was mint, was also sold on a custom made single axle trailer in mint cond. He then purchased a 1970 Pontiac firebird 455 b/block. Repowered with a 454 LS7 nascar engine, spent a fortune on race specing car, I think he still holds “P” circuit lap record in Tauranga. That car went to Auckland too, and has since disappeared =cheers
PS, does it still have the soft top with it??
Hey Paul, yeah car was definitely road registered, dad has photos of it when he raced it at pukekohe hanging on his study wall, I will have to ask him. 1978 seems to ring a bell for year of manufacture?, from memory, the old fella always had trouble with traction with the car, as when he first got it racing it used to axle tramp horrifically leaving dotted lines down the track!! hence the strapping down, but I dont think he actually changed any of the factory running gear. I didnt have my drivers licence when he bought the car, so he must of purchased it 79-80? After the last radical engine build, the car became quite tempremental, and would constantly pop things, so dad got fed up with it, but when it went right was orsome. We got into competitive sailing, and car was left in garage until sold. If you can imagine putting a rubbish can on your head, getting someone to belt the hell out of it with a bat, that is about how loud that thing used to be when riding in it - the induction noise was like a commercial vacuum cleaner !! - cheers, Rob
yes it used to corner really well, he had it strapped down so tight, the inside wheels would lift off the ground like the v8s today, thats why he went to quite wide rubber to compensate ha ha, are those wheel spacers on the drums, I think the old man got those made for it !
Hey thanks for the welcome, I hope Mr Johnson appreciates that car, it was rebuilt from the ground up,and a LOT of cash went into it. 6-pots all around, imported nascar 454, I loved it !!!
Is that a modified Marcos getting a biff from the S4?
Geetings all. I have been reading through this thread, fascinating. I thought that some may interested in this. Currently I am in the process of getting my book, currently called NZ Cars a Cottage industry, ready to publish. The book is about New Zealand Manufactured cars and have I done research on both the standard S4 and the Super 907. Below I have reproduced the chapter of the S4 that will be going in my book. I have also writen another chapter on the 907 and attached a picture of a relatively unknown "Lotus" Super 907 manufactured in New Zealand by Steel Bros yet still a genuine Lotus. Enjoy
Attachment 9154
Lotus 7 Series 4 1973 to 1978
By Patrick Harlow
Although many people know that New Zealand was at one time the only producer of Lotus cars outside of England, only a few know that it came about through the passion of an accountant by the name of David Dixon.
David worked for Steel Bros in Christchurch as the company secretary from the 60s through to the 70s. Since the founding of Steel Bros in the early 1900s the company had produced transport equipment and tended to concentrate mainly on truck bodies and trailers as well as heavy transport based machinery. After building about 5,000 truck cabs and bodies the opportunity arose to build the Prince Gloria in early 1964. At this point Steel Motor Assemblies Ltd. was formed and became fully involved in serious car production, joining the huge number of car plants that had started up at that time. By 1967 they were building Toyota, Nissan and Mazda vehicles. They would go on to build tens of thousands of Toyota cars and trucks. By 1977 Steel Bros NZ Ltd. were only producing the Lotus 7 car. It is initially hard to understand how the little niche market car ever made it into production. I have included it’s story because despite being built by a major car producer, just over 100 cars were produced, mainly by hand in a similar manner to all the other cars in this book and through the enthusiasm of one individual.
In the late 60s it was virtually impossible to buy a new car in New Zealand unless you had overseas funds. The number of Hiab cranes that Steels were given a licence to import could be increased by the amount of New Zealand made content included in the cars and by the amount of overseas funds they were able to earn in exports. David Dixon believed that it would be possible to build a car with a fibreglass body and a separate steel chassis locally. The car he wanted was the Lotus Elan, as having done the maths he was certain that Steel Bros could build the car with a high New Zealand content. The car could be sold more cheaply than the MGB in Australia which at that time was the only volume sports car readily available. David was sure that they could increase the New Zealand content to almost 50% of the car which was twice the amount other manufactures were achieving. If it reached the target of 50% then it could be sold duty free to the Australian market
David contacted Colin Chapman, the CEO and founder of Lotus, who was positive about the idea and sent over his Pacific Sales manager Ron Richardson to discuss a deal in 1969. Not expecting such a quick response David quickly borrowed an Elan from an old school friend to evaluate how easy it would be to produce. The project was deemed to be feasible despite the complexity of the Elan. A deal was made and Steel started to consider how they were going to produce the car. Unfortunately due to liquidity problems in England, Lotus Cars had been forced to become a public company and because finances were tight it was deemed no longer possible for them to allocate resources to make Elan parts for New Zealand.
That was the bad news, the good news was that Colin Chapman had never liked the Lotus 7 and was looking for an opportunity to stop producing it. They offered the Series 4 Lotus 7 to New Zealand and Rod Steel of Steel Bros made the courageous decision to take it on. David Dixon again negotiated with Ron Richardson and in 1972 two cars were imported from the UK for a feasibility study. One car became the company car for David Dixon and was his daily runner until he accidentally wrote it off 25,000 kilometres later. The other car was stripped down to its component parts so that production decisions could be made. In mid 1973 Lotus announced that their production of the Lotus 7 would cease and they would sell all their remaining parts at discount. Caterham in the UK took some of these parts and the rights to continue Lotus 7 production in the UK but they were not allowed to use the Lotus name. Steel Bros purchased sufficient components, jigs and moulds to build 50 cars in New Zealand. They also had the rights to use the Lotus name and became the only Lotus manufacturer based outside the UK. They ultimately bought 100 twin cam engines and Ford 2000E gearboxes along with a healthy supply of Ford Escort differentials and steering racks. Triumph provided Herald steering columns and suspension uprights whilst Lucas supplied the instruments. The engines and gearboxes were purchased in two batches of 50 with the first batch being surplus from Elan production and the second 50 engines from the Europa production facility. Caterham would build only 37 Series 4 cars before reverting to the less complex Series 3 cars which they still build to this day.
In Christchurch production of the cars began in a sub-factory in Buchanans Road. The first few cars were built from component kits which gave Steel the opportunity to build a couple of chassis’ using the Lotus jigs, evaluate them and to make some improvements such as reinforcing the engine bay and making the front suspension towers from heavier gauge steel. The Christchurch boat makers CrestaCraft were subcontracted to produce the fibreglass components while all the steel fabrication work was done in house. The first cars were finished in December 1973 and received much acclaim from the local press. At $4,300 dollars each they were a similar price to the Holden HQ but with an acceleration time of 5.2 seconds from zero to 100 km/h (Holden HQ with 3.3ltr motor took 13.1 seconds 0 - 100km/h). Even with a 1600cc motor they were in a supercar league in both performance and handling.
Locally produced content of the car was 75% which made the government quite happy. In fact two prime ministers went for rides in the car; Bill Rowling in 1974 and Robert Muldoon in 1976. During it’s production run several other improvements were made to the car such as a detachable fibreglass roof. Items that would have represented ultimate luxury on its British equivalent were included in the New Zealand version, for example: a fully trimmed interior, elasticated pockets to store oddments, floor carpet and even a lockable boot lid.
In 1975 production was transferred to the main Steel Bros site at Treffers Road where the factory still exists today and where the company now trades under the name Steelbro. Fibreglass production shifted to Prebble Fibreglass and cars rolled out of the factory at a rate of two per month. The 70s oil crisis did not dent its popularity and it was not long before several of these cars were making their mark on race tracks around the country. It is believed that 98 cars were built at the Steel Bros plant before supply of the engines dried up. All were fully assembled and ready to drive. Of these 8 were sold in Australia. Steel Bros were faced with either stopping production entirely or using Toyota engines. David Dixon suggested using the new Lotus 2 ltr 16 valve motor. For David, continuing to use a Lotus motor ensured that they could keep putting the all important Lotus badge on the bonnet as this was the key to unlock overseas markets. The new engine would mean a major redesign of the car so work began on a version which would be produced as the Lotus Super 907.
Bibliography
Thanks to David Dixon, Allan Dick
Agree with everything you say Paul. However Lotus were happy to allow Steel Bros to market the Super 907 as a Lotus as long as it had a Lotus engine. When a 907 was sent to America for appraisal it was still called a Lotus and as far as Lotus UK were concerned it was Ok to call it a Lotus as long as it had a Lotus engine in it. This agreement below is a quote form the 907 chapter.
"David Dixon and Rod Steel (Managing Director of Steel Bros) travelled to England and then to America to investigate the possibility of an export market there. In England they approached Mike Kimberley of Lotus Cars who agreed to look at the possibility of providing the engines. Consequently a Lotus Elite and a Lotus Esprit were imported into New Zealand along with two engines, transmissions and a selection of parts that would allow development of the Super 907 to proceed."
You wouldn't happen to have an english version of the above would you? The car shown in your photos is the prototype mockup. The red car is the only mobile version of it at this stage although a second car, I am fairly sure, now resides in Wellington in pieces. One day he intends to assemble it. I live in hope.
Great reading Patrick - thanks for posting this.
Out of purely self-interest (as I own the sole completed Bainbridge 907 car) do you have any information on both the Bainbridge transaction / saga and cars??
I have pieced some things together from likes of old owners of it as wekll as via Paul (from the above thread) but the more info I can gather the better from a historical perspective.
Cheers...Lindsay
Please PLEASE can the old dramas not be dredged up again! (But this from Patrick seems to confirm some previous)
Looking at all the pics, seems like the wide 13" hotwire mags were the wheel of choice by Steelbro's for this limited run of cars