Is there a future for Formula Ford?

[driftwood]

Those two cars are both late model Mygales, both championship winners. That is the asking price. They certainly have not sold at that. Both have probably got to be fairly negotiable.....



I bought my VD92 this time last year for $18,000. I think that was top dollars for that too. A VD91 has recently sold for $12,000, so prices for these sort of cars not really out of line.

$12k kiwi is around £6k that is cheap if its a complete car i just paid 5500 for car with motor less bodywork exhaust as its sat for 8 years or more- only bought it as i had money burning hole in my pocket it will owe me £12k fresh powder coat chassis new floor body full rebuild etc once it hits the pitman to test
there is a 92 car here for £9250 that has just popped up for sale but it will still need few ££ spent to make it nice car often better to go buy the race ready fresh rebuild car off the man at £13k however the 08 Mygale is £25/30k our top Ray 08 car is around £18k on the grid the Vd2k car with new update kit is £20k plus your motor- Spectrum UK agent is struggling to sell new cars due to Ozzie $ £ ratio being against us but in general i do see the Kiwi cars as expensive against the UK market and the "up n running" usa cars seem cheap but once you pull them apart they are not good value

[Russ Cunningham]

$12k kiwi is around £6k that is cheap if its a complete car i just paid 5500 for car with motor less bodywork exhaust as its sat for 8 years or more- only bought it as i had money burning hole in my pocket it will owe me £12k fresh powder coat chassis new floor body full rebuild etc once it hits the pitman to test
there is a 92 car here for £9250 that has just popped up for sale but it will still need few ££ spent to make it nice car often better to go buy the race ready fresh rebuild car off the man at £13k however the 08 Mygale is £25/30k our top Ray 08 car is around £18k on the grid the Vd2k car with new update kit is £20k plus your motor- Spectrum UK agent is struggling to sell new cars due to Ozzie $ £ ratio being against us but in general i do see the Kiwi cars as expensive against the UK market and the "up n running" usa cars seem cheap but once you pull them apart they are not good value

There you are guys! Import a Ray. Great cars and terrific value. Agree, Grant Ellwood?

[driftwood]

I have 92 Ray on the button for sale champ of brands 93 c/ship winner £7k= $13k ish

[Grant Ellwood]

There you are guys! Import a Ray. Great cars and terrific value. Agree, Grant Ellwood?

Excellent cars and the late Bert Ray was great to deal with. The car we imported for Mike Hannel had a note written on the track side of the floor "if you can read this you have rolled our car". Probably it was Bert himself who wrote that wise observation.
Hey Russ, where is that car now?

[Russ Cunningham]

Excellent cars and the late Bert Ray was great to deal with. The car we imported for Mike Hannel had a note written on the track side of the floor "if you can read this you have rolled our car". Probably it was Bert himself who wrote that wise observation.
Hey Russ, where is that car now?

Still in NZ. Have to agree regarding Bert. Great guy!

[crunch]

Great news coming for the NZFF Championship. Fantastic that the SIFF group have decided to help get this class back where it should be.

[Russ Noble]

You up early for today or late from yesterday, Crunch?

SIFF AGM tonight and I was talking to Ian last week about some things I wanted to discuss at the AGM. He said "There will be some interesting ideas proposed for the club at the AGM" but didn't elaborate.

That makes the AGM even more interesting in the light of your revelations. Seems we are fortunate in the SI in having a pro-active club with an executive that in no small manner works tirelessly and effectively for the good of their members. And the National Championship too by the sound of it.

Can't wait to get to the AGM to find out details. . . . .

[crunch]

Always up until 3 or 4 in the morning, only time I get to do all the motorsport stuff without having 3 pre-schoolers "wanting to help"
Indeed; it will be a interesting AGM for you tonight, and thank them all.

[Russ Noble]

I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts Crunch.

Last night’s AGM was indeed interesting.

It appears there has been in recent months an un-announced working party from the upper echelons of SIFF looking at the problems facing FF in NZ and trying to find solutions. They have been working in consultation with MSNZ and NZFF Inc. and other affected parties.

As a result of their efforts, which are still and will be on going, a proposal was put to the SIFF AGM and carried unanimously. There will be a press release in due course and it is not for me to pre-empt that. Suffice to say that it incorporates many of the ideas expressed on this forum and then some.

As always though, it will need the competitors to get in behind these initiatives. But this whole revamp is a competitor based initiative and the plans which the working party have in place and ideas they are currently considering for flushing out more competitors will, in my opinion, go a long way to generate more and continued support for the class.

Today I feel the future of FF in NZ is assured and in good hands.

[ERC]

Good to hear Russ. Best of luck with it. Look forward to the press release. The one massive vote in favour of FF in any guise is its longevity and I think it is vitally important to have a 1600 single seater class not just in NZ but worldwide, both as a stepping stone and also as a destination it its own right, catering for both modern and older cars.

[rf84]

Sounds very positive Russ.
Given the track record of the media in NZ when it comes to motorsport, hopefully we can rely on you to inform us when the press release is made public?

[driftwood]

1 how many ideas are being utilised that have been put forward by a Pom?? !!
2 Sold the 92 Ray at the weekend locally

[Markm]

Hi there
I was directed to this post by an SIFF member as I have an interest in the future of the Formula Ford class and am the father of James Munro who won the championship this year.
I note there a number of comments referring to me , or my car so I thought it best to respond , in no particular order to some of these comments.

Formula Ford is very weak at present and has been on a downward spiral for some years , particularly since the GFC , and this is not just a New Zealand problem or a class problem , the Australians are struggling to put feilds together and have similiar numbers to ours.

The new FF class in England is the same even with Ford offering free entry to the first 15 cars .

So in a world of economic decline what can we do to get young drivers into the class?
Young karters who are the most realistic targets, have more options nowadays, with realistic options to make a career without leaving karting and competing internationally , in Rotax and shifter karts.
We have a number of drivers doing this

There is also the option of the tintop route , which probably excites young drivers more these days anyway.
if you look at classes like Suzukis , a majority seem to be ex karters who have probably decided that a career in single seaters is not an option as there are few drives even at the top level , that pay.
With tin tops a paid drive is realistic even in Super tourers and particularly Supercars.

There is discussion on this site that infers young drivers arent joining the class because of 4 way shocks and data loggers .
i think thats rather simplistic , we are not getting the karters to a point where they even consider it an issue that somebody might have more sensors on their datalogger or an extra adjustment on their shocks.

Having come from karting i can say their has simply been no promotion of Formula Ford by anyone and that is the nub of the problem, young karters arent aware that Formula Ford is an option.


MSNZ have dropped the ball and its good that the SIFF club , as per Russ Nobles comment have picked up the ball and hopefully it will start with a promotion campaign through the kart clubs followed by invitations to drivers from formula First.

Then it is appropriate to start looking at rules.
I personally believe the kent engine has had its day, Ford obviously do to, but any change needs to be signalled well in advance as surety of rules is important when making the purchase of a car.

there are those who say kents are reliable , but when you have young drivers learning and pushing to the limit , you are going to have a lot of bent valves which means more cost and time away from the track.
Im sure thats not a problem with older drivers but remember the basis of this class , was and is , a learners class to bridge the gap to the next level of single seaters , which leads on to data loggers.

Dataloggers dont drive cars .
they have exactly zero effect on car performance.

They have one purpose , and thats as a training tool for young drivers.
In every level of motorsport understanding data is make or break.
It would be a retrograde step to remove them as a learning tool for young drivers in a learning class.

if necessary limit it to engine functions , speed and brake sensors but dont imply those without dataloggers are at a disadvantage other than in learning progression of their drivers.

We ran 4 way shocks , because that was what was on the car I purchased.
i am ambivalent as to the desirability of banning them .
for us it would have been an extra expense that I didnt need , if I had to replace them ,and contray to a previous poster , you cant adjust them between rounds as they are sealed.
in any event they are to complicated to fiddle with unless you have full time shock engineers, which is why we only ever changed settings when it was wet.

James was quicker around Ruapuna with the Stealth he learnt in , which had 2 way Ohlins , so I dont think 4 ways are as big an issue as made out to be.

Finally there was a comment re some lala land pricing of some Mygales at $60k , on Trademe ,vs an RF92 from the UK at 13k pounds.
the UK car landed here is around $30 nz plus kent engine , which is far dearer than a number of RF92s here that have been converted to Stealths , which are light years ahead of an RF92.

Its also dearer than my car as the poster may not have noticed that my car on trade me at $55k includes more than $30k of spares.

The basic car is $25k which i think is quite cheap .

To conclude my rant I would reiterate my belief that problems with Formula Ford arent rules related they are in the main simply a lack of awareness in the class due to no promotion or marketing.
Hopefully that is about to be remedied.

[Howard Wood]

Well reasoned response Mark. You are absolutely right about the perceived career path for young drivers today. When FF started single seaters were the premier classes, not so today. I am staggered at the number of ex karters running in the BMW series, whether they see that as a viable career path or not I don't know, it certainly doesn't teach them very much about car set up etc.

You may well be right about data loggers being an integral part of all senior classes and therefore knowledge of them being important, however your justification of 4 way shocks cant be sustained by the same reasoning. If you are correct about not touching them between races there is no training element here, maybe only an imagined advantage but given that FF was conceived as a limited cost class any regulation which can easily reduce costs with no downside should be introduced.

Promotion of the class and a sensible race schedule to minimize travel between the islands, preferably with some kind of carrot such as a subsidized TRS drive is the key to reviving the class nationally. Lets hope this discussion helps that to happen.

[Markm]

Hi Brian

yes you are correct on shocks ,but in our case it was a simple matter of what was on the car.
It cost enough to get to the start line without having to purchase another set of shocks.
if they are to be banned it needs to be done early so people can plan ahead.

you raised a good point about a sensible race schedule ,
running over 6or 7 weeks costs the same as spreading it over 30 weeks say , but its much easier to budget that same amount over the longer period.
Minimising the travel Islands is difficult as its harder to get north Islanders to travel South and was the same in Karting and events like the Rotax challenge are only North Island based

[rf84]

Hi Markm
It is good to get your input re the cost and effort of running "modern" FF cars as you are the only one with knowledge of these matters to contribute to this discussion.
The cost of crossing the Strait seems to be a major deterrent to competitors. Maybe a once a year event (similar to the FF Festival in England) is the answer?

[Carlo]

It costs me between $260 and $280 each way on the ferry for 1 person, a Hiace van and a trailer complete with the rally car. I pay about the same as that for one tyre.

[Russ Cunningham]

Hi Markm
It is good to get your input re the cost and effort of running "modern" FF cars as you are the only one with knowledge of these matters to contribute to this discussion.
The cost of crossing the Strait seems to be a major deterrent to competitors. Maybe a once a year event (similar to the FF Festival in England) is the answer?

I think you may have missed that Barry Leitch has also contributed to this thread. Another man with knowledge of current costs, etc.

[driftwood]

ferry crossing
why not go to the shipping company and ask them to do a deal $100 FFord van trailer car to cross the sea to do the races and give them branding on cars or the festival title
Surely someone has the talent /charm /clout /balls to communicate with them MD/ Chairman to get a deal knocked out then get some TV news at 6 coverage of the deal Festival date title etc

[Carlo]

ferry crossing
why not go to the shipping company and ask them to do a deal $100 FFord van trailer car to cross the sea to do the races and give them branding on cars or the festival title
Surely someone has the talent /charm /clout /balls to communicate with them MD/ Chairman to get a deal knocked out then get some TV news at 6 coverage of the deal Festival date title etc

Motorsport does get a 10% discount on both the ferry services as does just about every other sporting activity in NZ. They do not favour one sport above another.