I see the FIA is launching Formula 4 - a category to sit between karts and F3, in other words about where FF1600, FF2000, Formula Renault, Vauxhall Lotus et al once sat.
It would be good to hear from some of the guys who have done FF for years, either as drivers or engine builders etc, to find out just why (and when) the budgets sky rocketed because I don't believe it was always this way.
Michael. The answer to your "why" question is a phenomenon called human nature or, more specifically, the competitive part of it (the part that motivates us to go racing in the first place).
The answer to the "when". Very early in the history of FF (and indeed all formulae). English engine builders used to go through the stock of cams in their local Ford dealers parts departments and select the (on average) 1 cam in 6 that was better than the others (differences in the mass production methods).
Most attempts to create "cheap" formula do so by using very tight regulations. Ironically this strategy invariably fails because it creates a situation where the difference between a very good motor and an "also ran" is in the nth degree of attention to detail. This requires much time and when you are paying an engine builder TIME=MONEY.
Maybe there would be case for the opposite-no limit on engine size and/or power-8 litre V8s with any mods if you wish. BUT make them run on road going 185/70x13 radial tyres in which case there would be no point in spending megabucks getting a lot of power when the tyres are the limiting factor to the performance.
Last edited by rf84; 03-12-2013 at 03:19 AM.
I have seen "buying" formulae work in some cases. A registered competitor can buy any other of the competing equipment at a price, and the owner must sell for that, and the completion of the competiton. ie no take it home and change stuff. It's a great dis-incentive to spend just to win as you can't hope to recover! Would it work? Who knows. Could perhaps work with the engine package having a fixed price???
That could work, except the guys with the money would just look on it as another racing cost, and take the hit. However what about just doing a mid season woppa swappa amongst the top say six contenders. 1st place and 6th place swap motors. 2nd and 5th also, and 3rd and 4th. That could make things interesting! And also remove the incentive to have a trick shit motor if someone else is going to have it for half the season.
Last edited by Russ Noble; 03-12-2013 at 06:57 AM.
Strange no one agrees with the Aussies ,when they have between twenty and thirty cars competing, and how hard they go all using the motor supplied by their own club an unbreakable $12,000 motor I am missing something for sure
The main problem I have with that Jim is they are now running an engine that is two generations old internationally. What would be the point of us moving from engine/equipment that is 3 generations old to this spec?Originally Posted by jim short
Either we stick with the current spec and incorparate all the suggestions here, or move to the new spec with manufacturer support?
Just my own thoughts...
Is the Focus that long out of date???life must be slipping away faster than I thought
Jim you have a very good point, and I even agree with some of Crunch's reply, the engine is 2 generations old, one of the big problems for Ford, is that they don't make a "world" engine any more, the engine used in Formula F, in the States is a "world" engine, its marketed in Honda vehicles world wide, so it fills the bill on that account. The tolerances in Honda engines, is such, that no amount of "blue printing if allowed, will produce any greater power if it were allowed, these engines are standard and must remain so, they will take a lot more abuse than a Kent engine, and a test mule has been running in the States for 3 seasons now untouched, no reduction of power, now no matter how good your engine builder is, a Kent engine will not do this.
Now given all this, and with what Carl has said about Ford, this could explain a lot about Fords reasons for not supporting the Formula, personally I think their thinking is flawed, and think they have missed the bus on this, it would have been great if the class had kept up with the play when they changed the engines in the UK, but this goes back to the availability of a Ford "world" engine again, and the fact that market different engines in different markets, and thus making the engine package very expensive, which I believe was the case here in NZ, plus all the engine builders were onto a good thing, in fact when discussing this with a well know FF engine builder, who claimed the Kent engine was very cheap to run and do up, when another party in the conversation asked why he was charged $30k for his son's engine work, you could have heard a pin drop, and there was a lot of mumbling into beers after that!
So that is some of the reasons I support going to Honda, but would also support Ford, if they were able to suck it up big time, and come up with as good a package, remember win on Sunday, sell on Monday, is still true today, even if its just the T shirt.
Roger
Google states the Focus{not the kent} last ran in 2010 Rally,when racing FF in Aussie 4 or 5 yrs ago that mtr, was unbreakable and in some ways it would pay to do the same as our cousins,then heard a story with the new faster Toyota coming out ,the current ones can be made slower and sold off to replace the FF
The problem here as I see it, is that then you are locked into a one make Chassis, which is very expensive to repair, and a sealed engine, there is nothing wrong with a well designed space frame chassis, and what is turned out these days is stffer than the the early monocoupe chassis and it takes away any engineering input, in terms of rebuilding your own engine etc, and therefore increasing costs. so I don't think that is the answer.
Roger
Last edited by Racer Rog; 03-12-2013 at 08:09 PM. Reason: pushed the go button to soon!!
I agree ,but a top mtr, kent costs over $20.000 a yr, to stay in front x 3 $60,000 against $12,000 ,,No need to change the rest ,just get a cheep motor.
Where do you get that figure from Jim? Do you know how much the engines running this year cost to build? You do not need three engines a year.
My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that the top guys this year leased their engines at about $3000 /meeting ie $15000 for the season and have their own motor, whatever that is worth, as a spare. As far as I am aware no one had to use their spare motor this season. Although some did swap them out for their spare motor to do some/all of the SIFF rounds.
I agree with Racer Rog's comments
Last edited by Russ Noble; 03-12-2013 at 11:23 PM.
Crunch try to understand,, the 3 is the years that the Focus will or should do,and if you really know your FF racing you would also remember my grandson won the championship recently and to spend $20,000 is not hard to do on a Kent if you want the max.
Roger, would you (or anybody) have access to a site or a person who could tell us what would be involved in the 'Honda Swap' - just so we could have on the table what costs/work would be required.
It is obviously happening elsewhere into existing cars so this sort of information should be available.
There would obviously be Kent motors released from those who choose to swap, and that would help Historic cars that wished to retain them.
Looking at this page from just over 3 years ago, it cost US$11750 to convert a Swift DB-1. Allowing for the exchange rate and some inflation perhaps NZ$16000 might do the job today.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/05/s...for-formula-f/
Just try to remember quite a few young Kiwis go over to Aussie and compete,Ritchie, Mitch and Martin were there the yr. I went, not that I care what hapens regarding the future motors ,but have we not seen eneough stupidity with the V8s,we now have 3 lots racing, to my old way of thinking ,providing its cheeper have the same car as the Aussies so when these young Kiwis go over they are used to the car,then again that probably makes to much sense.
Here is a forum on the Formula F / Honda Fit engine : http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=123
Also this YouTube clip going through a conversion : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckBkUOKeN8Q
Last edited by RogerH; 03-13-2013 at 01:03 AM.
Thanks Roger. Good info, and gives a clearer picture of what one would be up for.
Since the Kent was dropped (I think in the late 90's) there have been 3 Ford motors. This means a new motor and/or chassis on average about every 5 years. This would not make for a cheap form of racing.
Re Ford's involvement, I spoke with Eric Mallard last year about the future direction of FF. He told me that Ford had been approached to support the Zetec/Duratec class a few years back but they were not at all interested.
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