Is there a future for Formula Ford?

[Russ Noble]

Crunch, I'm not a spokesman for SIFF but I can't see SIFF departing from the National Championship Formula Ford regs. If you are saying the Kent is here to stay, at least for a little while, then stability is good.

As for NZFF Inc, I don't think they have any meetings do they? That is the problem....

However there was talk about a replacement Formula Ford class and none of those that have been raised ie Zetec, Ecoboost, or a completely new junior Formula Toyota, none of those is suitable for the NZ scene, for all the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. And in that context the Honda is the only one that ticks the right boxes for NZ, because the Kent does have its drawbacks. That, I think, is all Racer Rog is saying.

If there is a decision to change, then it has to be Honda at this point in time.

Also, in the absence of support from Ford, I think consideration should be given to renaming it the NZ Formula F Championship

[crunch]

Also, in the absence of support from Ford, I think consideration should be given to renaming it the NZ Formula F Championship

...or any sponsor that wants to pay the money?

[Oldfart]

Also, in the absence of support from Ford, I think consideration should be given to renaming it the NZ Formula F Championship

As it was in the beginning!

[Russ Noble]

...or any sponsor that wants to pay the money?

Ah, the Nipple Pink Championship! LOL

How about someone sets up a NI series, finds a sponsor for it and then have MSNZ give that sponsor the NZ naming rights as a bonus? There has to be a bit of lateral thinking involved if we are going to pull FF out of the mire.........

Whilst there would be no money going directly to MSNZ, a set up like that would do more for FF than just selling the NZ naming rights would. And presumably they haven't been able to do that anyway in the last year or so! So really no skin off their noses, but a big boost to FF should it happen.....

Regardless, it's time to take the Ford name out of it.

[Russ Cunningham]

Ah, the Nipple Pink Championship! LOL

How about someone sets up a NI series, finds a sponsor for it and then have MSNZ give that sponsor the NZ naming rights as a bonus? There has to be a bit of lateral thinking involved if we are going to pull FF out of the mire.........

Whilst there would be no money going directly to MSNZ, a set up like that would do more for FF than just selling the NZ naming rights would. And presumably they haven't been able to do that anyway in the last year or so! So really no skin off their noses, but a big boost to FF should it happen.....

Regardless, it's time to take the Ford name out of it.

AGREE!!!!

[Racer Rog]

Well Russ, and in capital letters as well, and Crunch you know well Ive got a couple of those engines sitting in the shed!, jokes aside I think when looked at in the cold light of day, at this point if there was to be an engine change at this point in time, the Honda holds all the cards, this could change, if a better option came up, but Honda have put their hands in their pockets and developed a solution, has Ford?
Roger

AGREE!!!!

[Grant Ellwood]

Well Russ, and in capital letters as well, and Crunch you know well Ive got a couple of those engines sitting in the shed!, jokes aside I think when looked at in the cold light of day, at this point if there was to be an engine change at this point in time, the Honda holds all the cards, this could change, if a better option came up, but Honda have put their hands in their pockets and developed a solution, has Ford?
Roger

I attended an SCCA event in Virginia last Friday, most of the FFs were running Honda engines. Chatting to one of the car owners, his view was that the Honda required less maintenance than the Kent (no lapping the valves between qual and Race). Appears there will soon be no Kents running and at that stage they will remove the parity restrictors which will give (I think) about another 18 reliable HP. The Kents and restricted Hondas were very even in lap times so I believe they would work well in NZ, drivers could keep the Kents without worry of falling behind speed-wise and the older cars wouldn't lose their period configuration.

[Russ Noble]

I attended an SCCA event in Virginia last Friday, most of the FFs were running Honda engines. Chatting to one of the car owners, his view was that the Honda required less maintenance than the Kent (no lapping the valves between qual and Race). Appears there will soon be no Kents running and at that stage they will remove the parity restrictors which will give (I think) about another 18 reliable HP. The Kents and restricted Hondas were very even in lap times so I believe they would work well in NZ, drivers could keep the Kents without worry of falling behind speed-wise and the older cars wouldn't lose their period configuration.

Exactly!

[driftwood]

what is this lapping in valve between quali and race??
valves are in for the season just like the crank pistons

[Russ Noble]

I haven't actually seen that happening here, maybe in the States where they go overboard with everything! Grant was just making the point that they are a high maintenance unit to keep at peak power, and that is true.

[Carlo]

what is this lapping in valve between quali and race??

We used to do that years ago when chasing the NZ Championship with a couple of cars that we were engineering but that was back in the days of no or very poor air filters, poor quality fuel and cement being used to soak up oil spills around the circuits

[Racer Rog]

So what has changed?
Roger

We used to do that years ago when chasing the NZ Championship with a couple of cars that we were engineering but that was back in the days of no or very poor air filters, poor quality fuel and cement being used to soak up oil spills around the circuits

[Barry]

Maybe people like Russ Noble who actually race know what is going on here after all. The only work we did on our engine during the season was because of overheating caused by the lime on the track at Hampton Downs blocking the radiators. I suppose the Hondas don't give problems when they are overheated either.

[crunch]

what is this lapping in valve between quali and race??
valves are in for the season just like the crank pistons

Exactly. This is the sort of statement that turns people off the formula. It is no longer true that you have to do this to a current Kent engine. Carl might have done it in his day but that was 30 odd years ago?? and today's engine specs have fixed this.

[beowulf]

Exactly. This is the sort of statement that turns people off the formula. It is no longer true that you have to do this to a current Kent engine. Carl might have done it in his day but that was 30 odd years ago?? and today's engine specs have fixed this.

I remember seeing people whip the head off and lap valves between races. I think that the head that should have been
worked on was the drivers. Ratio changes between races was also common, especially if the wind changed. That may still happen. There was at one stage talk of a Formula Datsun. A Datsun 1600cc ohc motor running in a FF chassis through a Hewland box. A few more horsepower and better reliability. One car was converted and ran at Bay Park I can't remember when. Dave McKinney will know. Ford came to the party straight away with better sponsorship. Will history repeat itself? And how many FFs are running Datsun cranks now? Or have I a suspicious mind?

[Kiwiboss]

Hi Guys, Most that know me know im a "tin top" guy but i luv all Historic and Classic Motorsport and have been following this posting with great interest!! I see the same struggles with FF that other groups are having except that FF is a more defined class, in other-words small changes make a difference as outwardly to the average guy(like me) they look the same(unlike Saloons) and on the track I wouldn't know one from the other unless it physically looks different so i struggle between whats Historic and Modern and couldn't careless about what the engine is, its the competitive race that i like and knowing that these youngsters are giving it there best shot(EG: while dad laps the valves in the spare head in the pits to change between races, LOL)!!

But i can see that the old kent engine has run its course(not talking Historic FF here) in "Modern Motor Racing(Tier 1)" and does need to be modernized but why argue(seems to be the Kiwi way) and reinvent the wheel when its all in front of you, so i agree with Roger(to some degree) the Yanks have already done the homework, sorted all the issues and problems and converted over to Honda so to do so down here would be a no brainer(and cheaper), now im sure their is other issues i don't fully understand but surely alighning one of our main youngster tier 1 groups to whats used in the USA where most/some will want to head too as they push to be come professional surely has to be a great idea and should be considered, apples for apples!! and also with our higher $$$ this allows interested dad's and others to simply import a complete FF out of the US helping build the fleet, is this not what we want? even in our fledgling HMC group 3 historic race cars have been imported to compete, this i didn't expect and it has attracted a whole new person into our HMC class rather than pinching other competitors(offcourse im talking us older generation here but same principal).

Also, these youngsters are hip with modern technology and to them, to have a "Honda" bla bla engine in dads FF that they race would be considered COOL, a bit of a talking point with the young chick-a dee's and afterall most/some drive a Honda road car a bit hot roddered like we did when we drove Anglias, Cortinas, and after all a harping kid pestering dad about a Honda FF race car would surely help revive the class!! We gotta think how the kids see it?

Anyway, those are my thoughts and im sure others of greater knowledge can add to this.

Dale M

[driftwood]

Kiwiboss has some merit in his posting as i do see a bit of the "the world is flat" in some of our posts when the world has now been circumnavigated !

Lets look at the FFord thing from the youngster perspective
is the Honda more appealing?
will honda NZ/Aus put in some $$ to promote the series or give out sealed new motors to series entrants
what is the cost to convert the modern cars?
does it out way the cost of staying with Kent motor in 2 seasons (I assume 8-10 meetings per season)?
do you convert to slicks for F Honda or stick to treaded FFord tyres
If honda supply bog standard motor with a off the shelf dry sump kit and ecu the motor can be "monitored" for parity and cheating
seal the head to block seal the sump to block seal the ecu to chassis
maybe seal the block to chassis clamp it down to stop internal access and the racing will be cheaper and policed will
Look at F1 they now have 1 ecu supplier FIA can look into each car
F3 is the same with Bosche 3.1 system used last 12 years
make F Honda 1 make 1 way damper
F Honda engine fitted to post 93 cars so the post Kent chassis are used and Vd2k car owners can sell their kents to Historic classic racers and VD90 92 car owners
If post 93 car owner wants to run with kent engine in F Honda make that a B class
look at the weight limits of car with Honda and kent car bring in some parity
after all NZ is a country with 60 million sheep and 3 million think they are human so you cant just sweep all aside and have 8 car national FFord championship with 6 ex pubescent karters over zealous dads and Kenny Smith racing
You need to draw in local jimmy and tommy with their 78 86 92 or 2k kent car to run at the local rounds they can economically get to

Maybe its time to have Kent and Honda ( or similar concept engine) single seater series and keep as close to tradition as the Walter Hayes 1968 concept
BTW i think Ecoboost looks crap the whole notion is yuk we have too many slick wing formulas up in the northern colonies and I am sure Walter would disapprove

[Carlo]

Exactly. This is the sort of statement that turns people off the formula. It is no longer true that you have to do this to a current Kent engine. Carl might have done it in his day but that was 30 odd years ago?? and today's engine specs have fixed this.

Yes, 30 years ago circuits were a skating rink from oil leaks and engine blow ups from all classes racing and as a result they were often given a heavy coating of cement during a meeting and this was very hard on engines as most were running without any form of air cleaner. That does not happen to such an extent today and todays air filters keep the engine clean. Same has happened with rally engines, 30+ years ago valve grinds after every event was common due to dust entering the engine but today it is a non event primarily because of the quality of the air filter.

[ERC]

We have moved on driftwood. Now 4 million people and a lot fewer sheep...

I think Dale's point about the Honda appealing to the young is an excellent point. Sad to say, but those of us who grew up with Minis, Fords, Hillmans/Humbers etc., need to accept that to the youngsters, even Ford is no longer cool, as Honda, Subaru and Nissan, possibly Toyota and Mazda are indeed what they now identify with.

It appears to be a no-brainer but there is nothing stopping a choice or even running in two classes until such time as the Fords fade from the scene - or qualify as Historics.

[Grant Ellwood]

Exactly. This is the sort of statement that turns people off the formula. It is no longer true that you have to do this to a current Kent engine. Carl might have done it in his day but that was 30 odd years ago?? and today's engine specs have fixed this.

Well not exactly, there are /were a few clever engineers who machined inclined valves, subtle angles, but needed lapping to keep the compression in check. I'd like to say that I had done it myself but ......