Roycroft Trophy 2013

[Oldfart]

Here I go, putting my head in a Lions mouth again!
Yes it's on this coming weekend at HD on Saturday and Sunday.
The "feature car" this year is the Stutz out of Southwards. How often will you get the chance to see this on a grid?
Other notables entered; The Lycoming, Stanton Cropduster, RA GeeCeeEss, Northland Special, we could almost have a grid of cars which actually raced against each other in the time!
Of course the usual cars are there, sadly a couple will not be, the Darracq will be at Highlands, and Rob McNair does not want to do a brake rebuild on the Riley Moth again.
At last count over 55 cars were entered with a number still "in the mail", on top of that the Classic motorcycle register, Formula Juniors, Swap meet, and the other sthings that go to make up the "Celebration"

[RogerH]

The A40 Special will be there on the Sunday after surviving Leadfoot. The fuel tank needs to be enlarged as it only has enough capacity for hillclimbs and wouldn't have made six laps of Hampton Downs!

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, thats a great line-up Rhys! Will the Stutz be racing, or there for demonstrations? What a great achievement to have it there.

My company Monster Race Wear supplies the apparel to Southward Car Museum. The Stutz shirts we created for them have been very popular.

[ERC]

I'll be there - for a while, hopefully. The 'new' commentator may be grateful for any extra info, as sadly, I am still awaiting my spinal op, so had to opt out this time. He assisted at the Legend's meeting last weekend but is a bit worried that he doesn't really know many of the cars at all.

Hopefully geebeeNZ will be able to help out too, but I know that he is hobbling at the moment.

A great event and well worth the visit. I'll try and catch up Rhys! Hopeully, this time, I might be able to take some pics. Pity the McNair Riley isn't racing, but I hope the car will be there as this is now one of my all time favourite cars.

Nice shirts Steve!

[crunch]

A great event. I need to make the time to see it in person as looking at photos does not fully make you aware of the history. My dad always said the best history is the stuff you can touch.
Need to be there next year as sadly; two weekends in a row at HD from Palmerston North would not do my brownie-point collection much good at all!

[ERC]

It is quite a hectic meeting for the drivers as there are normally only 4 race groups and that means that turnaround time is quite quick. FJ, 2 x VCC and a two wheeler group. Not much more than half an hour after a race finish before thinking about heading for the dummy grid again!

The last couple haven't had any old (pre 1960) saloons, which is a real shame. Just one or two extra period race groups would add a lot to this event, especially for spectators, as the entry is overall quite low for a two day meeting. Maybe an opportunity for a Vintage or pre 1960, "Classic Trial"?

The side displays are interesting though and many an interesting car is to be found in the public parking areas.

[AMCO72]

Right then ERC, expand it out to pre 1965 and I will turn up in the MG1300. Hope to drive round in it during the lunchtime parade. Last year took some old codger from a rest home for a blast......I think he had to pop a couple of heart pills on the way. Certainly was a bit shakey when the nurse helped him from the car at the finish. Didn't think my driving was that bad!!!!!!!!

Folks, don't miss this......it is awesome.....

[Oldfart]

The last couple haven't had any old (pre 1960) saloons, which is a real shame. Just one or two extra period race groups would add a lot to this event, especially for spectators, as the entry is overall quite low for a two day meeting. Maybe an opportunity for a Vintage or pre 1960, "Classic Trial"?

.

I tried! Some cars underway. Gerald, the 1960 date is entrenched in the Motorsport/VCC agreement, and no sign of any change to that. Also as stated many times, HD specified the pre 1960 as well, also they did not want the Historic FF dodgem cars for this meet.

[ERC]

That is a bit unfair on the FFs!! Only one driver is a known problem (to me anyway)...

As I will still only have one working hand, I'll not be able to trailer the Magneight down, (to the relief of some no doubt!) so will just wheel the Marcos out, even though it is 1970, just to add a bit of variety to the display area!

Agree though Gerald, I think we'd stand a fair chance of a pre 1965 grid if it were allowed. Maybe the 1960 cut off needs renegotiating to a rolling date?

[AMCO72]

What, like the 40 year old PV date in the VCC? You see, what people forget is that pre1960 saloons are pretty dismal affairs, and I'm sure that is why there was little interest shown when the class was suggested. There are for sure SOME good machines in there, but quite frankly to get any of them up to reasonable 'racing' condition is going to take a lot of work......for what...one meeting a year.
I cant imagine 'racing', because that is what we are talking about here, a 1953 Vauxhall Wyvern, or a 1955 Hillman Californian, or even a Standard Vanguard. Things like the A35, Citroen L15, Peugeot, and a few others are worth considering, but mostly they will be pretty slow, boring to drive, and boring to watch.

There is a danger of course if the class was opened to pre1965, that there MIGHT be an invasion of Minis and Anglias and the like, and I'm not sure whether the VCC want this sort of 'modern stuff ' at their event. Would certainly look out of place at the Roycroft.

[Kiwiboss]

There is a danger of course if the class was opened to pre1965, that there MIGHT be an invasion of Minis and Anglias and the like, and I'm not sure whether the VCC want this sort of 'modern stuff ' at their event. Would certainly look out of place at the Roycroft.

64.5 Mustang coupe, yeap i'd be in Gerald LOL.

Dale M

[ERC]

Maybe one of the two days could be, how shall we put it, more relaxed in terms of the cut off date? A dual permit event is surely possible?

I think there needs to be a platform for the purer classic cars as I can't see there being hordes of additional Vintage cars joining the fray and the last thing we want is the Roycroft to stagnate rather than grow? Just a thought. Remember the trade stands people won't continue to support it, unless there are enough people through the gate to make their attendance viable.

Hampton Downs, situated as it is, is not like Ellerslie or Western Springs where there is a massive local support, so paying spectators need to be attracted to it.

[AMCO72]

Dale, I didn't think you would have the cheek to suggest such a thing, although the thought had crossed my mind!!!!!!!
And this is the problem. You extend the date 5 years, and there is a big selection of potential stuff out there. Perhaps that is why the VCC wisely stops at 1960, otherwise the entry might say no 'mussel' cars..........something a bit fishy here!!!! LOL..........

[Carlo]

The Mini & 105E both went into production in 1959

[Oldfart]

The Mini & 105E both went into production in 1959

And how many of those versions, ie 59 are still here in NZ? It is the ACTUAL vehicle that counts, not the first production year.

[GeebeeNZ]

Carlo. As stated above the agreement between VCC and MSNZ is that VCC has a 1960 cutoff for circuit events. While continuation cars like the Daimler SP250 only went a couple of years past 1960 and were virtually the same car the last Mini came of the assembly line according to Wikepedia in October 2000. Hardly the sort of vehicle one would consider as VCC material. I am very interested in the Special Event permit issued by MSNZ for the Leadfoot event which allowed a number of concessions even VCC permits dont allow.

[crunch]

Carlo. As stated above the agreement between VCC and MSNZ is that VCC has a 1960 cutoff for circuit events. While continuation cars like the Daimler SP250 only went a couple of years past 1960 and were virtually the same car the last Mini came of the assembly line according to Wikepedia in October 2000. Hardly the sort of vehicle one would consider as VCC material. I am very interested in the Special Event permit issued by MSNZ for the Leadfoot event which allowed a number of concessions even VCC permits dont allow.

For a start GeeBeeNZ, all competitors had a MSNZ issued licence of some description. That in itself is different to VCC events.

[ERC]

Before I left the UK, one of the most popular classes was the pre 1957 saloons. Runners included Mk 1 & Mk 7 Jags, Austin A35, Morris Minor, P4 (Auntie) Rover, Standard Ensign, MG Magnette, Ford Zephyr etc.

They might not have been fast, but the speed differential wasn't that high either, with A35's two wheeling around corners closing on the Jags.

What really stops that class or a pre 1960 saloons class here, is that nowadays, far too many cars have either been scrapped or turned into concours trailer Queens and for many years, there has not been any racing continuity in NZ for them - certainly not since I arrived in 1983. I think the only pre 1960 car we have ever had on our books is John Ure's Mk 7 Jag - and that is carrying a 4.2 engine and smaller wheels...

Classic saloons as such have just been whittled away over time, but to create a resurgence now of fairly original or mildly modified pre 1960's, I would suggest, is nigh on impossible. Somehow or other, we have let a whole class or era slip away and that is very sad.

No doubt all those Austin Westminsters, old Rovers, Standards, Zephyrs etc., that got trashed in banger racing were way past their prime and distinctly rotten, and uneconomic to repair to a Wof standard anyway, but I am sure that many could have been turned into race cars.

[John McKechnie]

Jim Chrystals car was an an example of what could be done. However, I remember it was extremely modified.
The interesting thing Ray, is you mention only English cars, there lots of Skodas, Simcas, VWs, Fiats ,Alfa.
They are frisky cars, and dont usually suffer the English body rot.
I am not suggesting here the Custaxie tribute , John Millers Renault tribute ,or the Coppins MK2 tribute ,by the way although by year could they get in?

[ERC]

Jim's car was indeed modified, (1900cc, alloy cross flow head etc.). Sorry, I missed him off my list, as he raced with us for my first season only. He stomped off having finished equal first, muttering that with the new two handicaps points format from then on, "It was nothing but a lottery..." Correct - the choccy fish mentality!

Fair point about the non Brit cars, but I was relating to what was running in the UK at the time. The UK pre '57 was tightly controlled so cars were minimally modified. Original steel wheels, carb size no more than about 1/8" larger than standard, pretty well full trim etc.

The fact that all those Euro cars could be added to the list, but non are racing in NZ now, just, proves the point, as they certainly used to. Racing doesn't have to be fast to be entertaining, as long as it is fairly close and there is variety.

Doubt I will now get down to Roycroft on Saturday, as my dear wife isn't too good after a wisdom tooth extraction yesterday.