George - this is mouthwatering. Congrats on kicking this off and the very best for a successful new class - we are looking forward to seeing you running in September.
George - this is mouthwatering. Congrats on kicking this off and the very best for a successful new class - we are looking forward to seeing you running in September.
Great read George......got me all fizzy again. Now why would Gladdis not wanna do handicap? Sorry mate I just this minute stumbled on this thread. If we were to run in the same configuration as the 80's....well you may as well give me the trophy now I guess! LOL....Couple of things mate....Good on you for doing this.....(you should pop over to my shop for a chat and I may be of assistance to you). Why dont you run two scratch races and one handicap race...AS WE DID BACK THEN. This will promote a bit of racecraft with the back markers. There was a FIA ruling regarding speed differences..."they must be within 110 per cent fastest to slowest." The Jaguar XJS was never a Sports Sedan it was a Group A car. However, you would concider all 80s type cars on its own merit I guess. Rex Rattenbury would probably bring his Chevette back from Perth if asked....(P76 donk) My old Green car will be coming back to NZ fully restored to how I had it sometime in the near future. Oh and fancy forgetting Jim! And there were a couple of Mini's racing in the old SSA. Clive Gott....he had ex Silcock ex Millen Jag and in my view and only my view...bastardised the car by welding the rear doors up etc.As already mentioned the car is no more... Which quite frankly doesnt surprise me....Clives driving style is reminisent to Peter Meadows....F**ked. (I remember going to a Party in the back seat of that Jaguar..best sound ever....crazy fast road car as I remember blasting up and down Queen Street in the original Custaxie with a side valve V8 motor in it...even more crazy. I will see if I can track down any of the SSA paperwork down that was in my possession as the Secretary that may or may not be of help towards rules etc. Now as for being 30 years older...as for me I am fizzing and race ready after doing more laps than most at most of the race meeting from Taupo to HD and Puke and currently leading the Championship Points for Safety Car wins! (now I am going to find me a car....wanna come Jim?) See you soon George...(come over to the Shore). and good luck ... Kind regards. Tony Rutherford. Oh PS was talking to Graham Parks and he will be stuffing a V8 into something very soon as he tires of the red tape surrounding his current "class"......(which is Time Trialing around HD and Puke...............ho hum booooorrring!)
Now look what you have started George - the future sounds bright and people are eager to join in.
Off topic, but Graeme Park is now running in the ERC Series. The Red Tape regarding Classic Trials is a bit unfair, as that is NOT a race group as such. It is aimed at classic cars driven at the owner's pace, or a stepping stone before racing proper.
Interesting comment about FIA handicaps being within 110%, fastest to slowest. That is just about what our two groups are currently, but if we combined them, it would be nearer 120% - but they used to run OK like that when we had the split by Sports/GT and Saloons. Splitting them by speed group eliminates faster cars starting from pit lane.
If just one driver objects to running in a handicap race, isn't the answer rather obvious?
YES............
Hi Tony- is this you running the Mustang painted green at Hansells Sun Valley New Zealand Sports Sedan Series - Pukekohe 1989 ?Originally Posted by Jizim
If so there is a thread on it here showing the race. regards ,John.
Hi John....nah mate that was Robbie Kerr in the ex DJR car. I purchased the Pinepac Mustang...(the better of the two!) It was in Bruce and Wayne Pinepac Orangey yellow colour. And it was restored by Kenneth Hopper for yet another ex Pat Kiwi Brett Maddren from yet another Timber backgound whom now resides on the Gold Coast. The car was recently sold I believe for a meagre Au$175,000. It was by all accounts one of the nicest race cars I have driven and I had the pleasure of giving it it's first race win at a meeting at Baypark. Thank John....I will get picts to you in your glorious XA Coupe when I can grab a few hours of sorting through about 50,000 pictures! Regards, Tony R
Tony- are you seriously starting to get an itch to be a loose cannon and go racing again? Or did that video clip I sent really get you going for more hands-on action.
Have you got the meagre Aus$175,000 to get the Mustang back - would be a sound investment ,better than property.
Barry Algie was telling me today that you are an excellent peddler, and it would be great to see you doing it again
Last edited by John McKechnie; 04-26-2013 at 09:24 AM.
John, Barry is right, but then Barry talks highly of lots of people. The only itch Tony has had lately was after a good night on the turps.
As for fizzing, remember Ruppie, it is a safety car doing 80kph so you would look tidy and as for mileage, you do more getting to and from the tracks (at a lot more pace). Seriously, be good to get back and play. Now Rex 'the rat' thats an interesting thought. He still has the lap record for Bay Park in Rally Car.
Tony I just got Biscuits phone number so will be intouch with him and maybe we can all get our heads together for an hour when I come on down that way.
Hey there Rod, yes call in or ph me and we can meet at Big bad Tonys if that's better. Hah ha I see you still remember the nick name from baypark. That weekend at Baypark there was that lippy bloody commentator who read out, and George sherry in the mustang, hey hes a drink or shrewsbury, hes a biscuit too, then later John Leafmoth in the Monaro. Must admit, to this day I still call John -- Leafmoth (and get an earful each time!!) Will you have the Escort ready in time for the first round in September, bloodyhell, its gonna be just like the old days!!!
George, heres one from the Graeme Bennett Collection of old NZ racing pics up currently uploading on another thread. Thought you might get a kick out of this!
Hi George, give me a bell sometime as I have a fair bit of info on most of the cars you are looking for, especially old OSCA cars.
Good luck with the class I know it will take up plenty of hours. It has been mentioned by others and some are against but what we found worked for our 40th anniversary meeting was to simply let any car that had ever raced at least one OSCA event in but with a committee of 3 to decide on eligibilty. The only thin we were looking for was an obvious performance upgrade that didnt exost back in its day such as putting a 750hp 14 degree crate engine in when said car only ran approx 500hp 23degree head engine.
As long as it looks like the car from a certain period let it in or as you are rightly doing give them a chance then see where things need to be tidied up.
Handicap racing will be advantageous as at the end of the day you are putting on a show for the spectators and its those spectators who will keep the class wanted by car clubs by coming to the tracks...just like all sport sedan classes over the years (possibly not OSCA) the guy that brings the fastest car wins and the rest soon leave the car in the shed...or start another class. Puke's straight aint as quick anymore.
Was probably harder for us down here but after nearly 2 years of planning we only ended up with 7 cars I think from a supposedly 17 confirmed or at least thought they would make it. Keep on them and keep them keen!!!
Cheers Munty
This is for you Evan, your dad at Puke in the Capri. This is still to my mind one of the best looking of all the NZ modified sedans. A great looking car and always beautifully presented. This is from the Graeme Bennett Collection of pics I'm currently uploading.
Thanks Steve, Dad was always one for making sure the car looked good over its evolution.
Steve, you reckon George may get a kick out of that photo, he is not alone. 2 Classics, one mean and lean the other mean and kean.
Thats a good photo, George in the shade but still glowing
I reckon with owning that car, the glow would never go
Here is a history lesson about the MK2 Jaguar that Dave Silcock outlines earlier in this forum and sorry to George Sheweiry that his forum has been hijacked in this way.
The Jaguar was bought as a written off car and rebuilt into a race car by Silcock in the ‘70’s. It was then owned by Don McMillan of Metropolitan Cranes with Silcock and Peter Sundberg racing it.
It was subsequently sold to Steve Millen who after initially racing it as bought, modified it to be more competitive, changed the colour and was very successful with it, it really launched his racing career.
In 1973 Don Peddie bought the Jaguar, did little with it but Grant Aitken did have a race in it. In 1978 it was sold to Stephen Thomson, then in ’79 sold to Gwyn Edicot-Davies with Clive Gott then buying it from him where Gott substantially modified it and did run in Sports Sedans even once managing a win, this was around 1981 with a period article stating “He does not expect to be able to match the V8 engined Ford Capri of Wayne Huxford or 4.2 litre Toyota Starlet of Trevor Crowe” Of interest in the same article Gott said “He has extensively modified it by fitting a light fibreglass front end and cutting out the floor in the boot. He also welded up the rear doors and moved the motor back several centimetres to aid weight distribution” it was then sold to Bruce Orr in 1984 who sold it to Terry Paaske in 1986 whom I purchased it from in the late ‘80’s.
The way I preferred the look of the Jaguar was as originally built by Silcock and this is the way I decided to restore it and not that Silcock mentions it but we got him to rebuild all the mechanical and some fabrication work on the body!
For Silcock to carry out his work I had to purchase another MK2 shell as Gott had chopped so much out of the original and it had now succumbed to rust, all that could be saved was cut out of the little that was left of the ‘original’ shell which I made no secret of was then crushed. I kept the Fibre glass doors and boot, cut out a lot of the ‘original’ fabricating work that was left and kept all the mechanicals including suspension’ with later on Silcock selling the 4.2 engine from it. I run a period correct 3.8 originally built by Silcock then rebuilt by Dave Mills.
There was nothing forward of the front windscreen as that had been modified to a space frame set up. At this point I must say that I don’t blame Gott for doing all of this as it was his car and the work he did do was well done BUT did ruin a ‘classic’ race car.
So as you can see the Jaguar has gone through several ‘modifications over its life and whilst it can’t be said its original ( as that changed once the first modifications were done) the lineage is there and the car I have had for over 20 years, being the longest owner and I have raced it more than any of the previous owners is authentic if not original.
Some of the points that Silcock brings up “wrong wheels” not only are they the correct American racing wheels that came off a Mustang, this Jaguar uniquely has a Ford stud pattern (not ever modified in all it’s years of racing), what he means is I didn’t use the wider Millen wheels which would have meant fitting the Escort flares which at the time would have been frowned upon by the Classic race authorities. I did however keep a set of the period correct flares even though the rear ones had been further modified by Gott.
The colour is absolutely correct as Silcock knows as we had the original painter let us know what the Colour was off ( A Corvette) .
Silcock is again wrong “ The car I built no longer exists”. Through the history as explained above and especially as he rebuilt the Jaguar!
Silcock is correct that in the short period he raced the Jaguar it didn’t have a louvered bonnet but then I ‘m sure if he could have he would have as this alone went a long way to fixing the overheating the Jaguar had suffered in its early race history. And it adds to the beauty!
The front wheel arches are the correct shape as run early in it’s life.
As the Jaguar ran most of its life with a roll cage it has to have a roll cage, the seats also have to meet a standard, the originals didn’t ( I have kept what maybe the ‘originals’ ) and the steering wheel is a period Motolita donated to me by the late Geoff Manning and his lovely wife, Barbara.
The gearbox as modified by Silcock was a constant disaster, the one in it now has the same foward gears as available in it’s time but doesn’t break!! It’s Australian!
The Wilwood brakes as fitted by Silcock are noted in the Certificate of Description and are a cheaper, safer allowable option.
If anyone has bothered to get this far go and look up a court case in the UK in 1990 Hubbard Vs Middlebridge Scmitar Ltd www.gomog.com/articles/N01 Judgement where you will read about Old Number One Bentley.
It’s not dissimilar to the Jaguar with stating “ "It is important to realize that racing cars are invariably changed during their careers, to incorporate improvements and modifications, and because of hard use and accidents” The Bentley even had a change of Chassis just like the Jaguar.
Summary
Thus, in summary, the expression Old Number One is the famous name in history of vintage Bentley racing car. It is justifiably applied to the car which in a succession of forms raced at Le Mans between 1929 and 1932 when it crashed. It is the "authentic" "Old Number One".
My Jaguar CP 9788 is THE Authentic car, original no but the lineage is there.
Silcock should be proud that a part of history that he initially made has been preserved, I wasn’t the one that hacked it about!
I am not going to debate with Silcock or anyone on this matter in this forum I just wanted to give a brief outline of the Jaguar’s history.
Regards
Mike John
I can see the discussion regarding the Jaguar owned by Mike John as above could quickly escalate, and get out of control, so I'm going to say right now I don't want any further discussion posted on The Roaring Season about the originality of this car.
Race cars, by their very nature, in order to remain competitive, evolve. They suffer accident damage, and later in life, when they're no longer competitive and their values plummet, they often suffer neglect. So its extremely rare any old race car remains completely intact, retaining every piece it was fitted with in period. The amount of originality a car retains varies from car to car, and every person has their own opinion on what makes a car original, or otherwise. There is probably no right or wrong answer, just different opinions, and by arguing the fact on here will achieve nothing other than cause argument for the sake of causing argument. And at the end of it all, nothing will be achieved other than everyone disagreeing.
Hi George- Can we have an update on the track and date of the proposed first meeting.I want to be there in Sept, and prefer it didnt clash with HMC Ice breaker. Also this post needs a bump back to the top again.
Cars should be as they ran in the day, no sequential gear boxes, no carbon or Kevlar panels. if the car doesn't fit race with GT1 other wise we will just be another group of modified saloons
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