No No George, you don't need to sign out yet, have Manfield this weekend and i'll give you a call next week(or earlier if I get a chance) i have some ideas and wanta see this happen!!
Dale M
No No George, you don't need to sign out yet, have Manfield this weekend and i'll give you a call next week(or earlier if I get a chance) i have some ideas and wanta see this happen!!
Dale M
Don't give up George, as that class is/was the missing link that many of us deem essential for classic motorsport. It offers an opportunity to run race cars as opposed to "road" cars on Dot tyres.
Don't get too despondent either. Our series has now been around for 28 years and even though registrations (where people have had to pay) are still running well, numbers at meetings are just not there at the moment and haven't been for at least two seasons.
Over the years I have polled our drivers many times on many different issues, ranging from allowing in cars with engine transplants, newer cars, cars from outside our initial Euro only stance, Datsun Z's, Saturday/Sunday or two day meetings, circuits and so on.
What you can't be responsible for is ill health, reduced income, family/work/travel commitments. Most of all, we have so many cars now, that are out of action due to the difficulty in obtaining parts, or undergoing rebuilds where maybe the wallet isn't as fat as it used to be. Part of my crusade against certain aspects of the CoD system was aimed at the unavailability of items that they demand as original.
We are also running older cars where parts are wearing out and the failure rate at meetings is growing, particularly with transmissions.
Although I am not prepared to throw in the towel, I am seriously considering going back to a single grid, even though the two grids eliminates the massive speed differentials and pit lane starts and I know that some drivers will then pull out which is sad, but sometimes you have to prune to guarantee survival.
You also have to factor in the obvious popularity of the BMW series and the U2K class, both of which are probably easier on the pocket than any older classic or genuine race car.
I love race saloons of years past and you have put so much effort in that it should not be wasted. However, all I can suggest is amalgamating with another group but running as a class. Lets face it, club and international level motorsport has always run on a class system. As I have posted on here many times before, without a decent grid, there is no stage, but there is nothing wrong with combining grids and if drivers don't like it, sorry, too bad. It is for the greater good and you will never please all of the people all of the time so it is futile trying. Get the basics right (which I believe you have done) and just hang in there.
Anything Historic needs patience and acceptance of what it means to be historic.
George, can I add my name to those who have asked you to hang in there for a bit longer to try and get some of these people motivated. This class is needed, as the cars we saw in that one meeting so far, have not been on track for many moons and the punters just loved the sights and sounds. Hopefully the bullsh-t will disappear in time.
There would be a lot of disappointed people around if this class is allowed to die so early.
I only have a little car, but at moment the wallet is smaller. But a great effort George, and maybe things will change and some of the boys and cars will appear.
Think the main Sports Sedans every one wants to see are the big boys, (they need a bigger wallet) so lets hope.
Wrong Rod, we want to see them all.Originally Posted by Rod Grimwood
Tell me George what was your impression of the track at Puke? Were you frightened or intimidated by the new lay out...did you do some lap times that you were happy with? .... Hopefully be at Hampton Downs this weekend and it will be interesting to see if the competitors that didn't wanna run at Puke (because they have been nicked in the head over the challenge) turn up at Hampton Downs because they have no excuse now. Will be back on this thread next week and hopefully you have a reasonable field. After all they did say they were happy to run HD BUT not Puke because of it being too dangerous! Good luck mate.
Heard a story of a car that has run at a lot of meetings was pinged at Puke for being a couple decibel over the ("their") limit. And won't return there apparently. This is a neat car and always sounds/goes good (V8 in little car) car has run at Puke numerous time before, but now it is 'too' noisey. Thanks concrete walls and as discussed on other thread, the walls and the way they take readings have stuffed it for a lot of people.
This guy is a great supporter of class and also motorsport in general and hope he keeps coming to HD as it sure will not be too noisey there as it is in same trim as run for along time.
Obviously the ACC is not going to hold the door open for a class that never fronts and hey who can blame them. I Naively thought with the number of cars already going and all the others sitting around and the people I had talked to who "only needed to put a set of valve springs in" or "needed to rebuild this" or "repaint that" and their enthusiasm for a class that they didnt have to run against the latest DOHC turbo 4WD road car that can lap 3 secs faster in road form than their race car and the fact that this new series would also put some serious value back into their car would be a "no brainer", and thats why I spent 32K on 2 vehicles to help make up the grid and flyers and stickers Toll calls, not to mention hassling 2 people into driving the 2 cars and a lot of hard work to promote it. The spectators who want this to happen by the biggest turn out of people to a club meeting in the last 10 years showed their support for it, the only thing missing was the cars and drivers. To be honest I think Roger Davis summed it up pretty good. Hopefully in the not too distant future someone will get enough cars to get it up and running and if they want the siddy and me to join in then I will run , but untill then I am just going to put her back in moth balls as I refuse to run the car against late model stuff that will detract from the mighty achievements of this great old battle bus. But enough of all that old negativity. Dennis Running and I are busting to have a good drive again and are so dissapointed about all that, we have decided that seeing as how we both still have several Trans am cars each and know there are 10 cars laying around, "STILL GOING" and that those guys can be trusted to front!! we are going to take over the redundant NZHSS spot with the ACC and will run a full series for SCCA Trans am cars starting next season. George jnr has just imported a TA Camaro from the US and is a confirmed starter, as is Alan Ferguson Corvette, Barry Search Camaro, and Andy Greenslade 2 x Jaguars. so in a day or two when I get a chance I will be starting a new thread for it. So there you are , it just goes to show good things can start from different beginnings. I also need to thank the few competitors who did front up for that innaugural meeting of NZHSS, hey boys , we gave it a go!!
Hi George thanks for the special effort trying to get the old cars up and running it would be great to see the old sports sedans running in the PDL Scope classic.South Island all the crowd would rise to there feet as it did in the 70s eg v8 charger/Sid mustang/PDL mustang 1/v8 rx7/Cortina v8s/Capri v8s/v8 Alfa/Victor v8 at Ruapuna and the new circuit down south being built ? Food for thought Sid Mustang might beat the PDL Mustang 2 as it now only has a mild cast iron blocked 351
Last edited by camaroman slp; 11-08-2013 at 10:45 AM.
This Historic Sports Sedan class has had a lot of interest when you look at the number of hits the thread has had and I enjoyed watching the cars actually running on the track. Steve Holmes even ran a thread on a similar vein.
There are group leaders out there who take a long term view of the success of a field- Old Fart for example stepping in with the pre 61 Class. Here he is not worried about racing, it is about facilitating people with these cars to have some fun.
Since the cars are there , is there similarly out there someone with a long term patient view who wants to work within the Historic movement to pick up the reins and continue where this has stopped.
The biggest stumbling block here was ACC requirement that there must be a certain number of cars on the grid, and the emphasis on the racing for points as a competitive series instead of simply getting them there first, so they can then decide their own competitive level.
This needs the painstaking process of this person being involved with the drivers to help get the cars to the track first to build up the numbers- a long term operation-rather than giving dates to comply with.
This is simply my view as I love what each of these cars has done for our spectator pleasure over the years .
Any one else want to add to this to keep the momentum going, as I know there are some gutted drivers out there who did not want this current result?
Last edited by John McKechnie; 11-13-2013 at 06:37 AM.
John, there are convenors who take a long term view but there are also competitors and club officials who can't see that running a race meeting is not a charity effort so there has to be a middle ground.
That middle ground is sharing the track/grid with a compatible group, until such time as one or other of those groups is viable in its own right. But there are far too many who just want their own exclusivity, but aren't prepared to look at the bigger issue.
I happily wear the hats of driver, series organiser and meeting organiser/promoter, but if there isn't a minimum of $2,000 coming in from a grid, then that grid either has to combine; pay an increased entry fee or go elsewhere - or they are being subsidised by the other drivers or the promoters.
If a group wants to run at our meeting, I really don't care what their format is, how fast/slow they are. If they want to run, all I am interested in is not making a loss. Spectators have no say, as generally, they get in for free anyway, so if Oldfart's cars are running a 2 minute plus lap at Hampton Downs or George's group wanted track time, and he decided it was a marble draw or a staged race, so be it.
If drivers are so precious that they refuse to run with other groups, even with a split grid start, then their best option is to front up with the $12,000 it costs to run a race meeting and invite others along to share the costs, or just hire the track for a play day, but they won't be racing on a play day...
Like you, I am mad keen to see this group run and if it wasn't for the fact that I already have my hands full, I'd happily take it on - but as with our own group, it would only ever be on my terms - ie no committee! The convenor can make the rules and apply them but committee's rarely have vision.
The reality of running a group is that many will show interest - and even pay a registration fee as an expression of good faith, but over the last couple of seasons, we have rarely achieved better than 30% of our paid up drivers at a meeting, so in simple terms, if using that figure as a guideline, then until there are at least 35 cars paid up and registered, then a class is not going to be financially viable, paying a normal entry fee.
Seeing the pictures of Bruce Manon's Escort earlier in the year and now Rob Berrgrens Escort, just to name two series cars damaged when competing away from our own series, we also have to accept that with the best will in the world, cars are going to be side-lined, further reducing grids.
Too many classes already? Maybe, maybe not, but the Historic Race Saloons need a class of their own, whereas there are others who could and should combine. But will they?
Last edited by ERC; 11-13-2013 at 07:37 AM.
Ray- this is extremely informative and well spelt out .
No rose tinted lenses when it comes to reality.
Just like to say thank you George, for all the effort you and other car owners went to the trouble, time and effort of making the HSS class a reality and running at HD.
Although I am disappointed that the series will not continue in its present form, primarily due to those who gave a commitment to run, and then let you and other car owners/drivers down, I will continue to spectate and look forward to the new Trans Am series that you speak of.
Stoked that I saw the Sidchrome Mustang run again, and got to introduce my 17 year old son to cars from an era that really ignited a passion for motorsport back when I was a kid.
Hi George
You certainly gave NZHSS your all and at the end of the day the car owners needed to play ball. I am certainly interested in your next venture for SCCA Trans Ams. I will wait for the new thread as I have a lot of questions regarding these cars.
Cheers
Anthony Sampson
Last post is demeaning, belittling and insulting- car owners not playing ball ?
George had spent a few years getting his car ready, and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting. And I didnt see the Sidchrome Mustang , I saw the Shewiery Mustang.
This whole thing came together very quickly. Others needed time to get their cars ready, and George knows how long it takes to prepare a car.
Full marks to those who got there to the inaugural meeting, we loved the show.
I feel for the guys who slaved to meet the deadlines, didnt make it.
And now they get kicked, slandered and abused- these are the guys who make up the field and have done the hard yards.
These cars are far too valuable and as some such as the Addis Charger and the Algie Monaro have been laid up for too long to rush out unprepared.
And to hear that he went out and bought extra cars to make up the field when I made it public Barry needed some money for a radiator and he would have been there.
George decided to move on but these guys still have their cars , they want to finish them and run them.
And they will because they WANT to, for themselves and for you.
In the meantime, show these owners and the cars some respect and support
All owners should be respected for their efforts, and take heart to continue - from someone who didnt get there in time.
Anything Historic needs patience and acceptance of what it means to be historic.- my earlier post.
I
Last edited by John McKechnie; 11-16-2013 at 07:11 AM.
Fair enough John, but why put your hand up when it`s obvious you might never make it to the deadline?
Anthony
My XA is NOT a Historic Sports Sedan, so therefore not entitled to be there.
As such, my car was never in Georges plan.
Second point is that at THAT moment my car was a runner.
Later ,it wasnt and I emailed George well in advance that I was not able to run .
This thread is about Historic Sports Sedans and shaping its future .
Sorry John, I wasn`t asking that question of you personally.
Anthony
Well Johnny that was a nice little attempt to lay all this on me, its a shame theres just a nasty little thing called the facts to get in its way. Firstly after talking to people about these old cars and finding there was interest in starting a class I canvassed everyone as to would they run their cars if I could arrange a series for them to run in beginning September and could they make the first meeting. 80% said yes, and no I was not holding a gun to their head. So much for the " came together very quickly and needed time to get ready.
second "and the seal went on him and didnt race at the first meeting" Hello Johnny I paid my entry fee and was there and did practice!! Yes I should have had the car for a test day but instead I was slacking, rebuilding the engine and fitting it back into my daughters car and helping my son with the gearbox in his Falcon, having to buy and organize 2 other cars and drivers to run them because I was worried I was going to be let down, run my electrical business, correspond with all the others (email and phone), try and help with my 84 yr old mothers failing health issues, liaise with the car club, and try to finish my car with my sons help in the 2 last days, finally loading it in the transporter 1.30am Saturday night!!! and what were you doing at that time Johnny!! Oh and by the way you announced Barry needed a new radiator AFTER I had said on this forum that I had bought the 2 cars. and so what does that mean , that I should pay for everyone's parts so they can go racing!!!!! And yes after sidchrome declining both times I put Sheweiry on the car cause I couldn't afford to be sued by them if they really didn't want it on. So tell me again how I let this deal down, Didnt do enough Maybe!!! So thanks very much for let me see, what was your quote for the owners of these cars??? Oh thats right some respect and support!!
Last edited by George Sheweiry; 11-16-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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