ERC- you should also have put in that the consistency of the Turtle beat the speed of the Hare in Aesops tale
ERC- you should also have put in that the consistency of the Turtle beat the speed of the Hare in Aesops tale
John, that's not a lesson, that's a fable........and there are a few of Mr Aesops little gems that we need to take on board. I will dig one or two of them out!
By the way......would the Amco mini be eligible for this class. I feel that this ex BNSW car would be more at home with these guys, even though it is not strictly a Sports Sedan.
Last edited by AMCO72; 04-22-2013 at 04:07 AM.
If the speed differential is too high, that is when you need to split grids by lap times... Which is then another TWO classes to the existing list!!! It does eliminate the major problem though, as the closing speed of the fastest car in either group, against the slowest, is a fraction of what it is in one large or diverse class.
In any class purporting to be classic or historic, surely driving standards have to be high on the list of requirements? Sadly, we saw as much or possibly more panel damage at the Hulme Festival, (supposedly "it is all about the cars") than most series classic race meetings, where there are regular drivers, used to running with the others and bad driving can soon be stamped out by the series committee.
I half agree with Crunch in that a framework of rules is required, but the more technical and involved they are, the more difficult it gets to administer and moderate and also to cover all eventualities.
We have always operated on a consensus of views from the active drivers. If enough believe a car is against the spirit of the regulations, out it goes - and that IS enshrined in the rules.
This is a class I would love to race in, however my 1989 Gulf Cobra misses by 1 year, isn't strictly a saloon either. It is however I believe in the right spirit of the competition, and was raced at many of the events that other cars here did. Also would you bring in the TVR Tuscan of the Whittakers, Stew McCondacks Ferrari?
Sports cars like these tend to miss out on many of the classes, Central muscle cars, single seater stuff etc, would be good to be included.
Last edited by CobraV8; 04-22-2013 at 10:25 AM.
Hi All,
I think a lot of you guys on here are missing the sentiment behind getting this class off the ground - whether races are handicapped or not, what is considered eligible or not - based on a vehicles "period" specification etc etc.
The whole ethos of this class is to get these fantastic cars out there, and circulating for the enjoyment of ownership firstly, and for the enjoyment of spectators as well!
To be honest, as a spectator I cant tell 100% accuracy compared to when a car ran back in its heyday..... As long as the vehicle is a reasonably close representation of how it ran all those years ago will be enough for me to want to go and watch.
I agree that starting a class with no rules is a little risky, but lets face it, let the guys who are prepared to front up with a car and run, guide the direction of the class. Better the guys running the cars, than those who are offering opinions and have either no intention of running in the class at all.
Looking forward to seeing and hearing some of these fantastic cars running again, that will bring back great memories of watching them as a kid.
Bring on the Historic Sports Sedans
I think CobraV8 you are going to have to start ANOTHER class.................LoL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree Habu. I can't tell the difference either after all these years. And these cars were continually being developed to make them more competitive and to win races. So long as a few don't disappear off into the distance I don't mind so long as they are on track and being exercised again.Originally Posted by Habu
Hi All,
I think a lot of you guys on here are missing the sentiment behind getting this class off the ground - whether races are handicapped or not, what is considered eligible or not - based on a vehicles "period" specification etc etc.
The whole ethos of this class is to get these fantastic cars out there, and circulating for the enjoyment of ownership firstly, and for the enjoyment of spectators as well!
To be honest, as a spectator I cant tell 100% accuracy compared to when a car ran back in its heyday..... As long as the vehicle is a reasonably close representation of how it ran all those years ago will be enough for me to want to go and watch.
I agree that starting a class with no rules is a little risky, but lets face it, let the guys who are prepared to front up with a car and run, guide the direction of the class. Better the guys running the cars, than those who are offering opinions and have either no intention of running in the class at all.
Looking forward to seeing and hearing some of these fantastic cars running again, that will bring back great memories of watching them as a kid.
Bring on the Historic Sports Sedans
Ok, some questions that I, and I assume others would like to know. Maybe George already knows the answers and has done his homework, and before the FF brigade jumps in and accuses me of being negative, I think the points I am raising are positive, insightful, and relevant.............
First of all, we are talking here of cars that do/did exist, and actually raced 25 to 50 years ago, not a replica or tribute type car.
But DO they actually still exist.....has anyone set eyes on them, and what condition are they in; are they complete, or have they been robbed; do/will they comply with MSNZ rule books?? Any car that has been idle for that length of time is going to be in a mess, unless they have been stored in a heated garage and started once a month, which I doubt. Unlike a vintage car which can be restored and put on the road with a WOF, these machines have to go one step further than that, and put into race-worthy condition........a much bigger ask.
What 'condition' are the drivers in?????? They are old or at least older, may have medical problems, no spare cash, have lost their 'mojo', moved on to other sporting attractions.......fishing etc.....and do they really WANT to resurrect/restore/refurbish these things that kept them poor all those years ago. Perhaps they are happy just to look at them in the shed, crack open a can of Lion Red and dream of glories past, and cant be bothered with all the crap necessary to race......licences, medicals etc etc.
Can they in fact be bothered to go through all the bullshit again?????
All these original cars are going to need a LOT of cash thrown at them. Going on our own experience with the Amco Mini......it was a mess, and needed a lot of time and effort to get it up and running.......and that was the first restoration in 1985. The second shot was even more expensive.....inflation.... and that car swallowed up a serious amount of money, and it was only a bloody Mini.
When the initial euphoria has gone and these owners sit down, with a can or two of 'Chateau Waikato Noir' and start to do some sums, they MAY decide it is all too hard. Sometimes it doesn't pay to go back to old haunts, or see old girl-friends. We all move on and usually these reminiscing episodes only lead to disappointments.
The other thing is this. Is there going to be a association/club for this class or is the roaring season going to be it. I think what we are doing now is the way to go. Get all these ex drivers onto the RS, and they can be kept fully informed. I mean look what has come up already in such a short time, and we are only on page 6. Maybe some word-of mouth is necessary here.......spread the message.....
We on the roaring season are all keen to see these cars in action again, but it is not going to happen overnight. As Dale says......he doesn't care if there are only 6 genuine cars on the first grid, it will build from there.
George, you have a big task ahead of you, and you have done your restore/refurbish so you know what it is all about. All you have to do is convince these other guys to go down the same path.........all power to your arm!!!!!!!!!
And there is NO LoL after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMCO72 succintly put and credit to you. It certainly does open a can of worms as opposed to a "Lyon Rouge". You are quite right about people moving on to other things. It is some 40 yrs since I last was actively involved in motorsport and with such things as mortgages, spouse and family, not to mention grandchildren it does focus your mind on other things. But thank the big fella in the sky for the RS, without it the pasion would not have been rekindled. And I'm glad it has because I no longer have those responsibilities and can go to the track and soak up the atmosphere and the fellowship of former racers and aquaintenances. But to put a car back on the track maybe just a bit of a task but am certainly looking at it before the guys in the white coats come along! LOL!!!!!
or just put some gas in, kick out the chickens and give them a run.
Those cars (and yours) are already eligible for the Arrow Wheels Series. Not sure where you are based but send me a PM.
We are more pragmatic than most and if a car fits the general criteria, even if out by a year or three, or even country of origin, it still runs, which is why you have Tony Robert's Corvette and Neil Tolich's Mustang from the USA instead of Europe, plus two or three Datsun Zs who joined up before the Japanese Classics grid got going. We would love to see more sports cars out there but most people opt for a saloon, as it is generally an easier option because there are more of them around.
Haha very good. I don't want to be racing against scanz cars and old single seaters, the Cobra was always running with saloons and sports cars, that's the class I would like.
Gerald- if the desire is there, mountains will be shifted.
Rogered- Its always easy when its a V8 isnt it
Yes John, but like all desires, the passion fades, and it becomes easier to sit by the fire with an apple and the newspaper, than go out into the shed and bleed the brakes!!!!! That is assuming you have any teeth left to eat an apple.
I agree Gerald, although I`d rather be out in the shed and Dale can tell us what we missed on Coro Street! This has got the makings of a great class, but like a lot of things you will always get the `gunnas'. They are gunna do this,etc,etc. I reckon you need a core group of at least 12 cars for the class to gain awareness and that would be great to see happen. I see George you didn`t mention Jim Short, now there`s a guy who could show the world how it used to be........how about Jim?
Of course, we all forgot Jim........how remiss of us. Now Jim has really been there and done that, BUT, I think Jim will have the same problem as I have, and that is passing a medical. He tells me he is keeping fit redoing the garden for the tourist visits.......you know the sort of thing......car collection, garden tour, cup-a-tea.......sounds good to me. And a bit of cycling down to the local liquor store......all good for the vascular system.
Jim has been very quiet on TRS lately; perhaps he is just looking at videos and checking his model collection, remembering the old days, and that is sometimes the best way....... he has nothing to prove.
By the way Jim, where is the Porsche now?
Ok just a bit more info; Cars confirmed for Sept so far;---
George Sheweiry 69 Boss Mustang Ford366 Gurney Weslake
Graham Addis 72 Charger Chev366 Moran
Bob Homewood 72 Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Barry Algie 69 Monaro Chev302 Bartz
Gordon Burr 74 Alfetta Chev 302 Milidon
71 Cologne Capri Ford 4500 GAA Cosworth
Paul McCarthy 69 Zakspeed Escort Ford BDG Cosworth
Bruce Thompson 69 Coppins Firebird Chev302 Traco
Tony Antonovich 69 Marwood Z28 Camaro Chev350
Roger Davis 77 Torana Chev350
Adrian Dobbe 69 W Grey Viva Holden 202
Dennis Running 77 Wills RX8 Chev366
I will post more as I contact and confirm vehicles, But that is what you can expect to see in September so far. George.
Last edited by George Sheweiry; 04-24-2013 at 01:52 AM.
That's a good start George - there are a few cars there that I am chomping at the bit to see on track - not least the Mustang. Good to see cars that haven't graced the track for quite some years listed there as starters. I will be there with bells on. Will be interesting to see who else joins in before the first meeting. Roll on September.
George - this is mouthwatering. Congrats on kicking this off and the very best for a successful new class - we are looking forward to seeing you running in September.
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