Hi, does anyone know of about these car on trademe, said to be a x shell car, ?http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=613656894. thanks for any info, peter
Hi, does anyone know of about these car on trademe, said to be a x shell car, ?http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=613656894. thanks for any info, peter
Unless some one can come up with a log book, its just another old banger.
Roger
Originally Posted by Racer Rog
Roger, that is what worries me with my old banger, lost log book somewhere in relocations, but I have owned for just about 30 years, so a bonus.
You would have to do some serious tracking of owners, and the unfortunate thing is, some Shellsport cars were bastardized and turned into all sorts.
Rod, I had a guy ring me asking me if that was my old ex Shellsport MK1 that I put the Chev in for Sports Sedans. It`s not, and as already mentioned, without any paperwork it`s just another old Escort.
But you have other evidence such as photos taken during the period etc which do assist
Pretty sure the seller has log book and when the car was advertised previously gave a list of previous owners
Here are the previous listings. Not much more info though.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Sear...archregion=100
Speaking from personal experience, history of the car can sometimes be found by removing paint......
Advert does say -homologated cage and log book. drop tank , older race seat and race belts.
Yes it does say it comes with a log book, so maybe it is, you would have to check the log book and owners, as it just could be another old banger, again, ie just a club car with no real history and if as Habu says, it was listed before with names of old owners, you would need to contact them for information before putting any money down.
Roger
Why? That only matters if you want to purchase a car that was raced in period. The fia appendix K and therefore msnz schedule k don't care if the car is a period car or a fresh build to period rules.
So if someone purchased this and made it a car to run in classics today you have only one option and that is not T&C as the body work is not series production. Aka it has bubble arches which as far as I know where not fitted to a standard series production car/body so will not fit under T&C as worded in manual #35. So you would have to build to schedule k or fia appendix K for a selected period of that make/model which will allow for the period body mods aka works replica bubble flares but the the tighter engine mods, brake and suspension mods and either period rubber or 60 series road tyres apply.
Those are the rules in the manual and what we have to work with.
"Aka it has bubble arches which as far as I know where not fitted to a standard series production car/body so will not fit under T&C as worded in manual #35"
As far as Im aware bubble arches were a factory option available to variants of the production model - does this not apply?
that is cool a factory option aka added afterwards....but not standard series production. The GT had different front guards with a little flare that was factory fitted and sold to the general public in the numbers required by the fia in the day. But for the bubble flares to be considered standard series production they would have been homologated in group 1 appendix j in period which I have not found to be the case in the very little looking I have done. If others know for sure cool I am incorrect and they are standard series production bodies and therefore can fit under the current T&C rules if made from the same material as the standard series production panels...if steel they have to be steel under T&C.
I think the bubble arches were on the Group 2 Appendix J cars of the day - which allowed for more modification over the standard production cars of Group 1 (rear seats could be removed, bubble flares etc) however these were modifications permitted this does not make them a standard series production. Someone who is more knowledgeable about escorts or has access to a copy of the FIA homologation paper will know the correct answer of the bubble flares and T&C as the rules are today. But for now in my mind they were not standard production body work so don't fit under T&C - that does not mean I don't want to see them out there - just if the letter of the rules is followed there are many cars that currently are classified as T&C when they should be Schedule K.
EDIT: Ok you make me look. I found that on homologation paper 1605 for the RS1600 escort there is an extension #4 that shows the part numbers and images of the Steel bubble flares. Unlike other homologation papers I have seen that show what groups these parts are homologated under I had to find what the papers where grouped under and that is Group 2. So modified standard production....which might still put those out under the way T&C is written as far as body work is concerned.
FYI here is a list of the Homologation number for escorts models as I found on the interwebie
The -number at the end is the year homologated
-EscortMexico_1614-71
-EscortRS1600_1605-70
-EscortRS2000_5566-74
-EscortRS2000_A5035-82
-EscortRS2000AUS_A5036-82
-EscortRS2000_B214-82
-EscortRS2000_B215-82
-EscortRS_650-77
-EscortTwincam_1524-68
-Escort_Sport_5442-72
-Escort_DeLuxe_5214-68
-Escort_1600_Mk2_5586-75
-Escort_940cc_5256-69
-Escort_Super_5213-68
Last edited by nzeder; 07-17-2013 at 11:14 PM.
Then buy it, you may not get another chance .TRS is full of stories of people who thought , didnt and regretted.
No law says you have to race it.
If it was restored as a fully compliant Shellsport race car then there should be no issues with it. However I do notice that it will need quite a bit of work to get into that configuration again, but if it has the history then I guess it is worth it.
My understanding of T&C is that the flares would not be legal. However, you could race it as a Schedule K car, which allows for period body modifications. But under Schedule K you would also be limited to maximum 13" diameter wheels, as again, these are the maximum that were raced in period.
For T & C, period ,works and homologated extra are prohibited unless specified for several items. Bodywork is not mentioned so 'should' be standard. Standard by T & C wording is a vehicle of 100 identical specification, engine body etc. Ford did not make 100 identical bubble guard cars, so the only real option is K. I am sure people will disagree, but every works car was different and because of the RS options catalogue every road car was different. This is how it is supposed to be interpreted , but I guess when people are running alloy YB Cosworth engines in an escort , anything goes.
This car as it stands, could only be a schedule K car, and if a car has a YB engine, it will not now get a COD, and in fact would only get a schedule K COD if the car was raced in period with that modification, and I think, but have been known to be wrong, ( only a few times) that this might apply to certain rally cars, but am unsure, the rally guys might chip in here.
Roger
True Shellsport cars such as Allan Farr's Mk2 Escort RS2000 running in the same configuration as it was back in 1980 -82 is a Schedule K car. Other than the tyres which were a controlled item and no longer available, this car is compliant with the Shellsport regs of the period.
Interesting point you make with your last sentence. I have always wondered how a Mk1 Escort could run at a "Historic" influenced meeting with a YB motor - even with attempts to disguise it with a Holbay inspired cam cover. The same could be said of prominent Mk2 cars with the same engine. It has been my understanding that only a twin cam version of the Pinto engine could be run if equipped with either the Warrior or original Holbay twin cam heads.
Has anyone established any of the history of the car that started this thread? As I am only a laypreson when it comes to T&C and Schedule K, what guise/form would be suit the car as advertised, if one was to settle on a specification?
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