Historic Sport Sedans

**Bruce302** · 10-20-2017, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by rogered

Its a tricky one, however If we were to eliminate every car that was not period correct, we are left with an Orange Monaro, and a Blue Charger. and thats no good for any body. So common sense means we need to make compromises. This allows us to present a good grid , people get to run their cars, and everybody is generally happy.

With all due respect it seems to be a class of rag tag misfits and ne'er do well's, some with no where else to go, my self included, but from what I have seen each and every one of them seem to enjoy themselves and have a load of fun. That's a bull's eye.

B.

**Kiwiboss** · 10-20-2017, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bruce302

With all due respect it seems to be a class of rag tag misfits and ne'er do well's, some with no where else to go, my self included, but from what I have seen each and every one of them seem to enjoy themselves and have a load of fun. That's a bull's eye.

B.

Well that's all well and fine their Bruce I have no problem with that, so now its not "Historic Sports Sedans" anymore......I believe a name change should be in order to correct the fit and look of the grid then...................maybe "Rag Tag All-Comers" suits?

**John McKechnie** · 10-20-2017, 07:12 AM

Reading Bruces comment, I understand the description to be of the people, not the cars.
Those of us who have a COD with H on our cars know we are entitled to call our cars Historic.
And as our class name states we can extend an Invitation

**Spgeti** · 10-20-2017, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by John McKechnie

Entries so far for MG Manfeild next month-

7 -Peter Hooper........Starlet.
8 -Dennis Running....Mazda RX8.
16 -Wayne Baxter......VK Commodore Lite- Peter Brock ran this
49 -John Rush...........Escort V8.
50 -Robert Bartley.....Custaxie 2
59 -John McKechnie...Monaro.
68 -Roger Davis........SLR 5000
69 -Jon Telford..........Maxda RX8.
70 -Michael Johnston..Scarab V8
72 -Robert Jack.........Escort V8.
77 -Neil Deighton.......Chavenger.
83 -Bruce Thompson...XA Coupe.
93 -Mark Allen............Firenza V8.
104 -Craig Stacey........Breadvan
112 -Marvyn Towers.....MGB V8
118 -Graham Barnes....Capri V8.
302 -Bruce Goodwin.....MK 3 V8
Cam Neil..............1939 Chev Coupe V8
Murray Park will enter the Marina, just working on the gear change mechanism

Looks like its going to be a great pack with the Breadvan as absolutely hot favourite
Michael Johnstons 2 dr Avenger is currently having the gearbox done, he is wanting to bring it up.

So out of this list of entrants, which ones have the “H” on them and let’s not include your Monaro which technically should not be in this group.
Why is the Addis Charger not at any of your events, is it because the field isn’t up to standard for it to come out.
Yes there are some really good cars in this group but it is ruined by some that just don’t cut the mustard.

Better off to have a reduced correct grid. Quality v’s Quantity...

**rogered** · 10-20-2017, 08:03 AM

Hi Bruce
The charger popped a transmission last time out. A new Hewland is circa ,$40,000. That may be why, but graham will be able to advise.
Which cars on the entry list would you wish culled out
Cheers

**Spgeti** · 10-20-2017, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by rogered

Hi Bruce
The charger popped a transmission last time out. A new Hewland is circa ,$40,000. That may be why, but graham will be able to advise.
Which cars on the entry list would you wish culled out
Cheers

I will send you a PM Roger

**Frosty5** · 10-20-2017, 08:16 AM

59 -John McKechnie...Monaro.
83 -Bruce Thompson...XA Coupe.
104 -Craig Stacey........Breadvan
Just my thoughts
Cheers Dave

**touringcarfan** · 10-22-2017, 02:23 PM

I am not sure what the real issue is here. Possibly the use of the word `historic`? How many genuine cars do we have in HMC and HSC...maybe a similar number to what HSS has? The simple truth is a significant number of cars in HMC and HSC are cars built to the regulations that were in use at the time...so not exactly a full grid of cars with genuine history. Why should this be any different for HSS? And I don`t exactly see the regs of the time for Allcomers and Sports Sedans as being as concise as what HMC and HSC can work to.

Anthony Sampson

**Spgeti** · 10-22-2017, 06:52 PM

You are correct Anthony.
It is where the divisions of the groups are and that HMC/HSC have set regulations to maintain a standard.
HSC is more historically correct than HMC.
HMC incorporates some parts that are modern but are still in the same theme as what they were in period but are more reliable that the older hard to get original.
The issue is keeping the grids with in the meaning of what they were meant to be and not to devalue that grid.

For example the Breadvan should be in HSS as it is a genuine period All Comer.
The XA Falcon is an HMC vehicle and the Monaro is a HSC vehicle due to its history.
It is the owners right where they race their car but it is the public’s perception of what they see and other perspective car owners that may want to join the groups of which group suits their car.

We must all support each other.

Cheers
Bruce

**ERC** · 10-22-2017, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Spgeti

We must all support each other.

Spot on. There are several cars which are eligible for more than one group and on a two day weekend particularly, many drivers just don't like hanging about all day for just two track sessions.

From a spectator's point of view, or photographer's point of view, that is to be encouraged, as small grids do no-one any favours.

ERC works hand in hand with Alfa Trofeo, even to ensuring no overlap of numbers and there are also ERC cars in HMC, HSC and HSS and BMW.

That means that those with CoD's have more choices of grids and that is the bonus of a CoD.

ERC a long time ago, along with Alfa, found far too many issues with some aspects of the CoD system that would eliminate far too many cars. Despite a comprehensive analysis and raft of suggestions that would have brought far more cars under the CoD umbrella, but still give each group the power to tighten up where required, many of those suggestions were rejected, so both groups elected to run their own rules - which still accept CoD compliant cars. I believe the same applies to BMW and these three very healthy groups still supply the bulk of cars at most local meetings.

**touringcarfan** · 10-23-2017, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Spgeti

You are correct Anthony.
It is where the divisions of the groups are and that HMC/HSC have set regulations to maintain a standard.
HSC is more historically correct than HMC.
HMC incorporates some parts that are modern but are still in the same theme as what they were in period but are more reliable that the older hard to get original.
The issue is keeping the grids with in the meaning of what they were meant to be and not to devalue that grid.

For example the Breadvan should be in HSS as it is a genuine period All Comer.
The XA Falcon is an HMC vehicle and the Monaro is a HSC vehicle due to its history.
It is the owners right where they race their car but it is the public’s perception of what they see and other perspective car owners that may want to join the groups of which group suits their car.

We must all support each other.

Cheers
Bruce

Hi Bruce

Now I see where you are going with this...and I totally agree with your point regarding the Monaro and Falcon. I always assumed that this situation was to help John with grid sizes and that this scenario might change in the future as numbers increased.

Thanks
Anthony

**Spgeti** · 10-23-2017, 08:08 AM

I want to make it very clear, we the Directors of HMC/HSC support John in all his efforts in building HSS.
He has done an amazing job and I know he is totally dedicated to his group.

Cheers
Bruce

**touringcarfan** · 10-23-2017, 09:04 AM

The trick for all these groups is how to achieve consistent appearances from those competitors that state they will support the various race groups...I bet all groups have been let down in this respect. Oh well...roll on Manfeild.

Anthony

**Rod Grimwood** · 10-23-2017, 09:46 AM

mmm, COD sounds confusing to me. Not sure what to do with my car, It been Shellsport, Sports Sedan, Club Car all by fairly simple changing of some body work, gearbox and wheels. Actually ran as Sport Sedan and Clubman at couple meetings by quick change of boot/wing and springs between races. will make decision closer to time. got 3 different boots/ spoilers wings etc. for what it ran in. different suspension/springs etc as well. better stop i am confusing myself.

John has done great job in getting cars onto grid, personally I feel if it looks like a Sport Sedan (something with something else big jammed in it) and the main thing is people enjoy themselves, then go for it.
Original Sports Sedan rules back in early 80 etc stated stock engine block, mods free, well there were a few blocks that a magnet would not stick too. actually couple of them still running now. cost and reliability is the main thing for most, and lets be real, technology from the 80s too now has changed a little bit with more reliabilty. (not handgrenades as Mr Palmer and Oxton called them on live TV) Feel the name is covered by 'Historic and Invited' so behave and you may be invited.

in list above, only Scarab V8 and MGB V8 have ? mark, only because back in Sports Sedan days they/that kind did not run in class and ran in Sports Cars. All other models ran. But as mentioned earlier, times have changed and if they fit and invited then sweet.
Before you charge into me, yes I know there was a Porche and Corvette in SS, they were invited.
Get on with racing guys and gals and enjoy.