Noise

[928]

having commented on one or two threads on here about noise I thought it deserves its own thread.
I feel that you racers out there are being lead along with noise readings being taken at trackside. these readings have no use at all. they are just numbers collected to use against YOU.
Noise is only a problem at the boundary of a venue where it can upset some of the general public. Inside the fence 99.8% of people are there to watch cars racing and making noise so by definition they give consent to the noise.
So why is it measured at track side? YOU go and ask the clerk of the course, if he cannot give an acceptable reason you have options.
Should you be told 'that is what msnz want then ask the steward of the meeting who represents msnz to explain why this is being done.
if you are happy good luck as you fall in line.
You should not be happy at all and ask for the noise meters and persons using them to removed from the premises before you will take your car on track. If you all stand together you will win against this unfair practise of condeming your self to and official that your entry fees are paying to be there.
Remember that without you MSNZ does not exsist so they do what you want not the reverse.
the owners of the venue have a vested interest in backing you (they want their fee) and the local council only has power in a public place.

Just my vent, but I have been through this senario twice before while overseas
928

[Rod Grimwood]

Well put cobber.

[crunch]

having commented on one or two threads on here about noise I thought it deserves its own thread.
I feel that you racers out there are being lead along with noise readings being taken at trackside. these readings have no use at all. they are just numbers collected to use against YOU.
Noise is only a problem at the boundary of a venue where it can upset some of the general public. Inside the fence 99.8% of people are there to watch cars racing and making noise so by definition they give consent to the noise.
So why is it measured at track side? YOU go and ask the clerk of the course, if he cannot give an acceptable reason you have options.
Should you be told 'that is what msnz want then ask the steward of the meeting who represents msnz to explain why this is being done.
if you are happy good luck as you fall in line.
You should not be happy at all and ask for the noise meters and persons using them to removed from the premises before you will take your car on track. If you all stand together you will win against this unfair practise of condeming your self to and official that your entry fees are paying to be there.
Remember that without you MSNZ does not exsist so they do what you want not the reverse.
the owners of the venue have a vested interest in backing you (they want their fee) and the local council only has power in a public place.

Just my vent, but I have been through this senario twice before while overseas
928

yep!
Measured at trackside is a historical thing that unfortunately some of the councils have picked up on and quoted as part of the resource-consent. Some circuits like Hampton Downs are at the boundary...far more logical

[crunch]

having commented on one or two threads on here about noise I thought it deserves its own thread.
I feel that you racers out there are being lead along with noise readings being taken at trackside. these readings have no use at all. they are just numbers collected to use against YOU.
Noise is only a problem at the boundary of a venue where it can upset some of the general public. Inside the fence 99.8% of people are there to watch cars racing and making noise so by definition they give consent to the noise.
So why is it measured at track side? YOU go and ask the clerk of the course, if he cannot give an acceptable reason you have options.
Should you be told 'that is what msnz want then ask the steward of the meeting who represents msnz to explain why this is being done.
if you are happy good luck as you fall in line.
You should not be happy at all and ask for the noise meters and persons using them to removed from the premises before you will take your car on track. If you all stand together you will win against this unfair practise of condeming your self to and official that your entry fees are paying to be there.
Remember that without you MSNZ does not exsist so they do what you want not the reverse.
the owners of the venue have a vested interest in backing you (they want their fee) and the local council only has power in a public place.

Just my vent, but I have been through this senario twice before while overseas
928

Just a couple of minor points 928. Your entry fee does not pay for officials to be at the circuit. I think you would find most are paying for themselves to be there. Noise Rule in manual needs to be changed...a good remit for conference!!

[928]

you mean the msnz officials do not get expenses from the promotors or organisers.

[RogerH]

Just a couple of minor points 928. Your entry fee does not pay for officials to be at the circuit. I think you would find most are paying for themselves to be there. Noise Rule in manual needs to be changed...a good remit for conference!!

Crunch - I thought MSNZ were already looking at this - if so, does a remit need to be put in?

We put in a "submission" to MSNZ a month or so back based on the debacle at Pukekohe where the track managers used (incorrectly) the MSNZ noise guidelines to send a competitor home early. It turned out that the methodology used was fundamentally wrong and the competitor should not have been excluded - I bet no one refunded that part of his entry fee that he was unable to use.

[ERC]

The MSNZ stewards claim petrol expenses and apart from them, the only other officials of the meeting who are paid are the timekeepers. All others officials and flaggies, safety car drivers, dummy grid and pit lane officials are volunteers.

Others who may be paid are generally service providers, but as the timekeepers are listed as Judges of fact, they therefore are officials even though they are also service providers.

As it was explained to me, it may be mandatory in the future for the race organisers to have noise monitoring and may well be required to submit a report at the end of each meeting, which will inevitably lead to a paid official and/or equipment hire, pushing up the costs yet again. Deep joy.

Remember Tony Roberts did a 24 noise monitoring exercise at Hampton Downs and the loudest noise recorded was the dawn chorus...

[rf84]

928 makes some very valid points.
1 Spectators who attend motor race events are fully aware that there will be noise involved. Some would argue that the noise is a part of the appeal. By attending they are giving their tacit acceptance that noise will not upset them.
2 The only people who have any right to object to the noise created by motor sport are those who do not attend but may be subjected to noise.
It is logical therefore that noise readings be taken at the point where the general public who choose not to attend race events may be subjected to such noise i.e. the boundary of the circuit or, even more logically, at the nearest neighbour's boundary.
It has always struck me as absurd that an organiser of a motor sport event could hold an event in a very remote area where no one can hear any noise (e.g. the Army training ground on the Desert Road) only to have it stopped because the noise 30 metres from the track is too loud!

[Limezed]

How does almost anything that runs the 1/4 mile pass noise limits? Is it a council by council limit thing.

[Kwaussie]

No Noise!

Great to see you fired up the boilers again Steve!
There was no noise for two days on the other side of the Tasman.

[Oldfart]

Crunch - I thought MSNZ were already looking at this - if so, does a remit need to be put in?

We put in a "submission" to MSNZ a month or so back based on the debacle at Pukekohe where the track managers used (incorrectly) the MSNZ noise guidelines to send a competitor home early. It turned out that the methodology used was fundamentally wrong and the competitor should not have been excluded - I bet no one refunded that part of his entry fee that he was unable to use.

And there is no refund for the enjoyment he did not get!

[ERC]

I gather that the some of problems at Pukekohe are from someone who inherited a house in the area (in other words, was gifted a house...).

We could hear the power boats yesterday on Auckland's upper harbour which seemed to be making one hell of a noise, especially as we are at least 1km away from the nearest patch of water. As it was during the afternoon, who cares?

We would only object to local partying teenagers who seem to be on the next street, only if they made any noise after midnight, being our bedtime, but the nearest neighbours on our street get up at 5am so are in bed by 9:30. Fortunately, they seem to cut the noise just before midnight, so no problem.

We have only ever had sleep disturbed in three places and it is always the overly loud doof-doof bass that rattles even the best of double glazed buildings. The three places were Taupo - the noise coming from a nightclub in town; Dubai (honest!) and Darling harbour, Sydney, Melbourne Cup day.

Maybe the noise restrictions should be along the lines of the Speedway - ie not after 10:30pm or a suitable time?

As rf84 states, it is only relevant to those outside the venue. Do rock concerts have to stick to 95db? Not from what I have heard and they are often so loud as to be painful.

[crunch]

Crunch - I thought MSNZ were already looking at this - if so, does a remit need to be put in?

We put in a "submission" to MSNZ a month or so back based on the debacle at Pukekohe where the track managers used (incorrectly) the MSNZ noise guidelines to send a competitor home early. It turned out that the methodology used was fundamentally wrong and the competitor should not have been excluded - I bet no one refunded that part of his entry fee that he was unable to use.

It is part of an executive inquiry happening this week. SO cant comment.
However; I WOULD put a remit to conference to make sure something happens!!

[rf84]

Thank heavens we have someone at MSNZ who actually LISTENS to common sense and is prepared to attempt some change.
I know you come on for some flak from time to time on this forum Raymond but at least you are well aware of the opinions of the "grassroots" followers of motorsport which unfortunately does not seem to extend to some of your colleagues in Bullshit Castle in Wellington. You are to be commended for your courage and willingness to actively address the issues. Pity you can't convince more of them to get on this site.

[Malcolm McLeod]

There is bound to be a lot of noise after this weekend due the speed of a certain Volvo straight out of the box in a certain category that has a 30 year wait until we can talk about it!

No Noise!

Great to see you fired up the boilers again Steve!
There was no noise for two days on the other side of the Tasman.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I understand that a BMW was DQ or meatballed at Pukekohe last Sunday due to noise.....yet to my ears some of the Alfa's were a lot noisier.
Conversely, the chap taking the noise readings had to move from our point at one stage due to being too close to the stables...

[Malcolm McLeod]

I understand that a BMW was DQ or meatballed at Pukekohe last Sunday due to noise.....yet to my ears some of the Alfa's were a lot noisier.
Conversely, the chap taking the noise readings had to move from our point at one stage due to being too close to the stables...

[928]

who did this chap represent? organisers,council, msnz,drivers, or just himself? I do hope you asked him?

[crunch]

I understand that a BMW was DQ or meatballed at Pukekohe last Sunday due to noise.....yet to my ears some of the Alfa's were a lot noisier.
Conversely, the chap taking the noise readings had to move from our point at one stage due to being too close to the stables...

I find the science of noise interesting. When I was a flaggie at Manfield, the Mini 7's were awfully noisy and hurt the ears, whereas the deep growl of a V8 would trip the 95 limit. It is the pitch of the sound that our ears perceive, not the loudness as such. Sort of like if the soundwaves travel faster and closer .

They did a sound test on Rally cars once at an NZRC round 15+ years ago. It was done at the scrutineering venue, which was a workshop with a corrugated iron fence around the outside carpark where the test was happening. The guy wondered why every car was over the limit. I kindly informed him that due to the surroundings he was wasting his time, and it would be more productive for everyone if he came and joined our team for a beer to discuss the Doppler effect. Great night and actually not a bad dude...for a council worker!

[ERC]

Council. Which begs the question. Did he pay to get in or alternatively, is he allowed access to private land without permission, or, as the council have coughed up a few bucks for improvements, are council employees exempt from paying?

As HRC booked the track, are they obliged to let council officials in?