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Thread: New Zealand Historic Saloon Cars Under HRC

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  1. #1
    As already said, the HSC rules are based on MSNZ T&C and Schedule K. Nothing else. There are already many cars in NZ built to these rules. The MSNZ rules stipulate:

    Only tyres suitable for legal road use in New Zealand, or period and
    tread pattern correct, bias cross-ply tyres (refer note) may be used.
    (ie. road tyres having 1.5mm minimum tread depth across 75% of
    the width of the tyre and around the entire circumference). Aspect
    ratio is restricted to 50% minimum. The use of semi-slick tyres with
    only radial grooves is specifically prohibited.
    Note: An example is Dunlop CR65 brand tyres

    Really, there is nothing to be gained for the class as a whole to allow either one car, or the entire field, on slick tyres. Although slick tyre technology did begin to arrive within the period HSC has been structured under (pre December 31 1977), the vast majority of these types of cars raced on treaded tyres. When there is ample availability of both DOT radials and treaded bias-ply tyres, why have slicks? It really comes down to wanting a performance gain. If the whole field is on slicks, it negates any performance gain. But, why bother? Slick tyres create extra grip, which then puts greater stress through the drivelines. This is turn creates more unreliability. And for what? Also, slicks have a shorter performance lifespan than treaded tyres, so replacements are required more often, thus increasing costs.

    Remember, this is only historic car racing.

    Gerald, the photo here shows that sometimes your AMCO Mini did race on treaded tyres. Also, when you say you want to race it on slicks because this is what it raced on in period, I'm guessing you want to race on radial slicks, and not bias-ply slicks? I can virtually guarantee your car didn't race on radial slicks in period. It would have been bias-ply slicks. The technology between the two are quite different, and indeed, a Hoosier treaded bias-ply would be closer in technology to what your car raced on in period than a modern radial slick.

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    Remember, HSC is never going to be all things for all people. It'll either appeal or it won't. The great thing about New Zealand is that there are so many different classes to choose from. This class only creates a haven for those wanting to build and race T&C and Schedule K cars under MSNZ historic rules. I know I don't speak for everyone here, and people go historic car racing for different reasons. But for many, the appeal in racing a 45 year old car is that it looks, feels, and handles like a 45 year old car.

  2. #2
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    I think some mischieveous person has photoshopped my tyres !!!!!!!

    Seriously, it may be 'only Historic racing', but it is a race track we are competing on, and NO ONE wants to tour round at the back of the field. If for example, we were just out there having fun, which most of us are, there are cars in the HMC grid whos owners seem hell bent on cranking more and more horsepower out of them.......WHY....HP costs $$$$$$$ Perhaps it is to keep up with, and beat the pesky Australians, and if this is the case I say go for it !!!!! Theyre all, or most of them seem to be falling into this trap. And the 400hp cars are not the ones going over to Oz to compete.

    A couple of Festivals ago I had a chat with one or two of the tail-end Charlies in the HMC races, and they all expressed amazement at how fast the front runners were compared to them with their miserable 400hp. needless to say some of these racers have never appeared again.......it is all just too hard. What I am saying is that I am sick and tired of drivers spouting the old story......the cars are the stars....yes....but so is the ego of some drivers, where being on the podium is very important. I dont have a problem with performance enhancing tricks, but please dont pretend otherwise.

    Now I know that I am going to get shot down here, but I dont care. I know what I have seen and heard and I am sticking to my story.What has this got to do with this thread.......it is that it is 'only historic racing'....yes, but it is as competitive as any sport, maybe more so, and drivers are always looking for an advantage no matter how small. And if you dont think it is competitive, I suggest you get in a car and try for yourself.......I think you will be amazed.

    By the way.......going back to the Amco Mini tyres. I am not sure what these are. A 10 inch CR65 has a much narrower tread than this.....could they be a slick with some radial grooves in them ?? I will ask Rod when I next see him.
    Last edited by AMCO72; 09-03-2015 at 01:55 AM.

  3. #3
    By the way.......going back to the Amco Mini tyres. I am not sure what these are. A CR65 has a much narrower tread than this.....could they be a slick with some radial grooves in them ?? I will ask Rod when I next see him.[/QUOTE]
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4
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    Very good. I would like to see a comparison with a 10 inch Dunlop slick. What size wheels are these for. Is just the small one a 10 inch.

  5. #5
    This is only a reference guide for Dunlop Tread patterns of the day. I know that the 65 and 81 patterns were available for the 10" but outside of that I'm guessing.

  6. #6
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    No doubt about it. The CR65 tread on the Mini was great. Had a half worn set on the car when we bought it in 1984, and even though they were old and hard were still streets ahead of the current stock of DOT radials.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AMCO72 View Post
    No doubt about it. The CR65 tread on the Mini was great. Had a half worn set on the car when we bought it in 1984, and even though they were old and hard were still streets ahead of the current stock of DOT radials.
    There are 3 reasons why I think this issue should be considered, discussed then once decided we can all leave it alone:

    1. Anyone leaning really hard on DoT tyres will tell you that tyre life/ temperature is an issue. An issue made worse by small tyre/ wheel size (eg AMCO Mini), high horsepower (ask any front runners in the BMW Class B) and high temperatures. I have cut out a brand new set of 4 DoT tyres in one January Taupo meeting (3 races).

    2. These cars DID run on slicks both here in the BNSW series etc and also Group 2 ETCC. Getting a comparable DoT tyre size can actually be quite hard as witnessed by the Haliday Escort and AMCO Mini (especially in 10 inch).

    3. There is an opportunity to equalize the lap times of the HMC/ HSC field which will only add to the spectator appeal of these classes. For those HMC drivers who do not want the "Star" quality of their cars to be diminished, the finish line is always at the end of the straight anyway!

    Before anyone assumes that this argument is about personal advantage, unless my current plans fall over, I will not be running in the class for the immediate future.

  8. #8
    Semi-Pro Racer Paul Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMCO72 View Post
    No doubt about it. The CR65 tread on the Mini was great. Had a half worn set on the car when we bought it in 1984, and even though they were old and hard were still streets ahead of the current stock of DOT radials.
    Of course, they're still available but bloody expensive!

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