MATICH'S F5000's - Fantastic Article

[Ray Bell]

This is a very difficult question to answer...

At the time it was said that Frank gave the car to Repco because he owed them money and he wanted the F5000 engines. That is just as improbable as his own explanation (of latter years...) when he said that he loaned them the car for exhibition purposes because he wasn't going to race it any more.

Let's be plain about it, Repco loved Frank and were happy to back him. This is clear from John Walker's story about the 1975 Tasman Cup, or was it Frank Hallam's comment? "We never got this close with Frank..."

For a time Frank had a Repco engineer working with his team to tend the engine, he got the best engines first. Mind you, he did give them two AGPs and many Sports Car wins.

He further claimed that when Repco went through its upheavals it was thought to belong to Repco, when Nigel Tait left he bought it from them.

The truth about that might well have gone to the grave with Frank, though Derek Kneller might know something about it.

Frank also claimed that the SR4's usefulness was killed off by rule changes to the Can-Am, where he'd intended to compete. He said that they banned racing engines (regulated to stock block only) when they saw the potential of his car.

I would call that 'spin', which was not unusual for Frank. A couple of years later they had Porsches, didn't they?

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
Could you please name the Matich Team members in these 2 photos that I took at Amaroo Park in early September 1970.
I think this was Frank's first outing in the McLaren M10 B. Repco.
I remember him talking to those around him about how hard the 1970 Formula One season had been for him as he had just returned
from Monza where Jochen Rindt had died, he was visiting McLaren's in June when Bruce died and he was friends with Piers Courage who had died earlier at the Dutch Grand Prix. 1970 was indeed a terrible season.






( Ken Hyndman photos )

[Terry S]

This is a very difficult question to answer...

At the time it was said that Frank gave the car to Repco because he owed them money and he wanted the F5000 engines. That is just as improbable as his own explanation (of latter years...) when he said that he loaned them the car for exhibition purposes because he wasn't going to race it any more.

Let's be plain about it, Repco loved Frank and were happy to back him. This is clear from John Walker's story about the 1975 Tasman Cup, or was it Frank Hallam's comment? "We never got this close with Frank..."

For a time Frank had a Repco engineer working with his team to tend the engine, he got the best engines first. Mind you, he did give them two AGPs and many Sports Car wins.

He further claimed that when Repco went through its upheavals it was thought to belong to Repco, when Nigel Tait left he bought it from them.

The truth about that might well have gone to the grave with Frank, though Derek Kneller might know something about it.

Frank also claimed that the SR4's usefulness was killed off by rule changes to the Can-Am, where he'd intended to compete. He said that they banned racing engines (regulated to stock block only) when they saw the potential of his car.

I would call that 'spin', which was not unusual for Frank. A couple of years later they had Porsches, didn't they?

I have to fully agree, very difficult subject, so couple of quick points. I am tied up today but will do more research on weekend.

It is a conundrum like many issues with Matich. Made harder by him no longer being around.

- Why did he respond on this. I have never seen anything else from him. He would have been in early eighties by then, late to take
up "social media"
- If he had a dispute over ownership why didn't he take up legal action. We never heard anything of such action. He could have
lodged a caveat against Tait to stop him running it.
- Who paid for the engine bought from Les Wright?
- There was a split of Repco businesses in ?? when a management buyout of ACL (the gasket and bearing divisions) occurred. Tait
was part of new ACL and owned over 10%of it. He was paid out by Repco (LSL etc) and as part of that bought the SR4 from Repco.
- This question of Can Am rule changes is confusing. Could not have been to stock block engines, as Porsche 917 competed, and also
Ferrari and BRM. Ray, is there anything in RCN about it.

[Ray Bell]

If there is it should be in the story Peter McKay did about Matich when he retired, it went over a couple of issues...

That's the problem with the Matich story. I told him when we discussed doing a biography that it would be warts and all, I wouldn't do it any other way. The fact that I know how to contact each of his chief mechanics was, I believe, my trump card. Of them all, the one I know least of all is Peter Mabey.

So in the main I'd be able to counter Frank's exaggerations and cover-ups.

Looking at it all realistically with the SR4 and the Can-Am for 1970, would he have been able to beat the 8-litre McLarens? Frankly, I don't think so. So not going was better than going and losing, wasn't it?

Ken's photos...

The second one plainly shows Peter Mabey sitting looking across the car and Graeme 'Lugsy' Adams in the team shirt looking elsewhere.

The first... trickier... Joan is at the boot of the Falcon, I'd say it's Lee sitting on the boot ledge, I don't know who it is walking across from the van and it looks very much like Peter Mabey leaning on the ramp. It's probably Kris standing nearest the car, but I wouldn't really know. It wasn't unknown for Kris to take school mates out to the track with him. It might be Frank talking to Joan, or it might be someone else altogether... Evan Green perhaps?

Strangely enough, I wasn't at this meeting. I don't know why, either.

If I think of it, I might e.mail this pic to Kris and ask him when I get home Monday.

[Terry S]

If there is it should be in the story Peter McKay did about Matich when he retired, it went over a couple of issues...

Ray, what mag was that in and when?

[Ray Bell]

RCN, I'm not sure which issues, but it was just after Matich retired...

Maybe May or June '74. Again, I'm not at home. I'm never at home weekends.

[librules]

RCN, I'm not sure which issues, but it was just after Matich retired...

Maybe May or June '74. Again, I'm not at home. I'm never at home weekends.

I just had a look. It was actually over 3 issues, Sept, Oct and December '74.

[khyndart in CA]

Ray,
Thanks for the information on the first two photos. I am being greedy and asking who can you recognize in these next two photos and then I will leave you alone ! Your input is truly appreciated. Ken.

Amaroo Park, Sept. 1970. Frank Matich taking the McLaren M 10B Repco out onto the track.






(Ken Hyndman photos )

[garry simkin]

Ray,
Thanks for the information on the first two photos. I am being greedy and asking who can you recognize in these next two photos and then I will leave you alone ! Your input is truly appreciated. Ken.

Amaroo Park, Sept. 1970. Frank Matich taking the McLaren M 10B Repco out onto the track.






(Ken Hyndman photos )

The two people doing the job of the starter motor look like Peter Mabey on the right side of the car and Graeme 'Lugsy' Adams on the left hand side.
Garry Simkin.

[Trevor Benton]

Have been very much enjoying the Frank Matich thread & would like to learn more about the man himself both as a person & as a businessman. Is his wife still alive?

Regards, Trevor Benton, Brisbane.

[khyndart in CA]

Trevor,
You may find some of your answers at this site.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/obitua...23-gijh9e.html


( Ken )

[Terry S]

Have been very much enjoying the Frank Matich thread & would like to learn more about the man himself both as a person & as a businessman. Is his wife still alive?

Regards, Trevor Benton, Brisbane.

I suggest you enter "Matich" in the search box at the top of this forum to see a range of articles.

[Terry S]

I suggest you enter "Matich" in the search box at the top of this forum to see a range of articles.

Also just Google "Matich"

[Terry S]

Librules, thanks for finding the relevant issues of RCN. Saved me time.
Ah Matich! The line between fact and fiction was often very blurred at times with this guy.
I have spent considerable time over the weekend searching out the issues that have been raised on Matich. This includes from mags, books and memory.

COMEBACK RACE
For the 1966 Bathurst 500 race in October Matich says “It was also my comeback race from the burns I suffered when I crashed the Lotus at Lakeside”. (Bill Woods pg 163)
This ignores all the races he had in the Traco Olds early in 1966.

CAN AM RULES
At the start of Peter McKay’s article (RCN Sept 74) he notes “He asks if he can see a copy of this article before it goes to print. “I’ve been misquoted before”, he says. His request is met.
So what was in it must have agreed with Matich.

Was it engine capacity:
He then looked ahead to the 1969 Can Am. “When we learned that expected rule-changes on engine capacity did not eventuate it was decided we would pass up the 1969 Can Am. I was disappointed really, as I think we would have come off with it”. (RCN Oct 74).

Or stock blocks:
With about a week to go before leaving for the 1969 Can Am, Matich received a bizarre phone call. “I had been informed that the promoters in the US, SCCCA, had decided to exclude their SR4 from their competition that year. Teddy Mayer, running Bruce McLaren’s US operations, approached Jim Hall of the Chaparral team and together they appealed to the SCCA to exclude any car with anything other than American stock block engines. Their argument was that the SR4 would have been too good, detracting from the American-engined cars, and the series would lose public support” (Bill Woods pg 178)

OWNERSHIP OF SR4
Can’t find anything on this at all. Seems to have drifted into retirement.
I am inclined to believe what’s on the Tasman Revival website as I assume they got the details from Nigel Tait.
If Matich believed it was still his there would have been injunctions and caveats lodged against it. Nothing was ever mentioned along these lines.

REPEATING ARTICLES
I first read the three 1974 RCN articles by Peter McKay.
I then read a long article in June 1982 “Australian Motor Racing” also by Peter McKay
Then I got a sense of déjà vu. The later article was just a word for word condensed version of the 1974 articles only 8 years later. Perhaps they thought readers would have forgotten the earlier articles. Seems a bit sloppy to me.

[Ray Bell]

The line between fact and fiction? Oh that is good!

You are probably right, injunctions and caveats would have been flitting about everywhere. On the other hand, I'm also inclined to think that Nigel Tait's version might have some irregularities included, and I'm not necessarily saying they would come from him. I would say it's something so hard to plumb that guesses would ultimately be involved. But they'd be educated guesses.

Trevor... Joan died perhaps ten years before Frank. She had a long illness, I think you'll find the beginnings of it were in '73 when Frank took time off due to her problems. As a married couple they were commendably close, I saw things at both race meetings and in their homes that showed that they simply lived for each other.

Ken... The car behind Frank in the pit lane is that of Ray Winter. Garry is right about the pushers, I have no idea who it is holding the clipboard.

An odd thing about the race report for that September 13 meeting is that it mentions Frank wanting to lower his existing outright record. Yet the previous meeting's report has the outright record going to Col Green in a 2.5 Brabham at 53.5. Frank was to do 51.5 at the September meeting. The only other possibility is that he ran in an earlier race on the day (September meeting) and that race wasn't reported. Which I wouldn't really expect to happen.

[Mark Bisset]

1.SR4 Ownership

Malcolm Preston was appointed GM of 'REDCO' (repco engine development co) into which the remaining assets of 'Repco Brabham' (which built, sold and serviced the RB 600/700/800 Series engines) around 1970.

Redco serviced the RB engines and designed, developed, built and serviced the Repco Holden and later Repco Leyland F5000 engines.

In Preston's excellent autobiography 'Maybach to Holden' he says in the 1972 section of his book ...'During the intervening period support to Matich had increased to engines for 2 cars, competing in the USA as well as Australia and New Zealand. He had ceased campaigning the SR4 sports car, which REDCO purchased as a bare chassis for approximately $10000 for display purposes.'

I would treat this for what it is; a first hand account by the guy tasked with negotiating with FM on this topic/ the guy FM negotiated this arrangement with. (the car was surplus to FM's needs at the time, his commercial interests were around F5000 so the cash would have been handy)

2. FM's Contract with Repco more Generally

The relationship with Repco and FM was mutually beneficial back to the Coventry Climax days, i spoke to Malcolm Preston (now deceased) about FM tangentially last year whilst researching the article i wrote about McCormack's McLaren, he had the greatest of respect for FM.

Derek Kneller said FM decided to retire post the '74 Tasman in February '74. Repco's withdrawal from racing was made in April '74.

DK said FM's Repco contract ran till 30 June, the usual financial year arrangements. At the end of the '74 Tasman FM had 5 Repco F5000 engines; 2 flat plane and 3 with the two-phase cranks. DK said that 'Repco looked after him until the end of the contract' or in other words complied with its terms.

Given the commercial arrangements had come to an end between FM and Redco all outstanding matters would have been dealt with in accordance with the contract or negotiated if not specifically addressed in the contract.

Don't forget that REDCO was a subsidiary of Repco Ltd, then one of our biggest, public, audited companies, not Schitt Fite & Co, so all of this stuff would have been done pretty much 'by the book'.

If FM or Repco had a beef with the way certain things rolled it would been dealt with then. If final elements of the wind-up of the contract were outside its terms, that is negotiated, the normal thing would be for it to be documented and a 'Release' signed by both parties saying 'Finito' and that neither party owes the other any more...

3.Can Am and 'No Racing Engines'

Thats all bullshit, the factory Ferrari's raced in '68/9 and the last time i looked they weren't powered by Ally blocked Chevs.

Once Watkins Glen went onto the Can Am roster it was routine for the Group 5/6 sportscars which survived the 6 Hour endur0 to race in the Can Am round on the same weekend; Ferrari, Porsche, Matra, Alfa etc.

It would have been fantastic to have seen the SR4 run in the Can Am but it needed to be '68 given the pace at which the competition developed.

The interesting bit is how the engine would have fared in a 200 mile Can Am race which is slightly longer than a 10 lapper at Warwick Farm!


Mark

The line between fact and fiction? Oh that is good!

You are probably right, injunctions and caveats would have been flitting about everywhere. On the other hand, I'm also inclined to think that Nigel Tait's version might have some irregularities included, and I'm not necessarily saying they would come from him. I would say it's something so hard to plumb that guesses would ultimately be involved. But they'd be educated guesses.

Trevor... Joan died perhaps ten years before Frank. She had a long illness, I think you'll find the beginnings of it were in '73 when Frank took time off due to her problems. As a married couple they were commendably close, I saw things at both race meetings and in their homes that showed that they simply lived for each other.

Ken... The car behind Frank in the pit lane is that of Ray Winter. Garry is right about the pushers, I have no idea who it is holding the clipboard.

An odd thing about the race report for that September 13 meeting is that it mentions Frank wanting to lower his existing outright record. Yet the previous meeting's report has the outright record going to Col Green in a 2.5 Brabham at 53.5. Frank was to do 51.5 at the September meeting. The only other possibility is that he ran in an earlier race on the day (September meeting) and that race wasn't reported. Which I wouldn't really expect to happen.

[Steve Holmes]

1.SR4 Ownership

3.Can Am and 'No Racing Engines'

Thats all bullshit, the factory Ferrari's raced in '68/9 and the last time i looked they weren't powered by Ally blocked Chevs.

Once Watkins Glen went onto the Can Am roster it was routine for the Group 5/6 sportscars which survived the 6 Hour endur0 to race in the Can Am round on the same weekend; Ferrari, Porsche, Matra, Alfa etc.

It would have been fantastic to have seen the SR4 run in the Can Am but it needed to be '68 given the pace at which the competition developed.

The interesting bit is how the engine would have fared in a 200 mile Can Am race which is slightly longer than a 10 lapper at Warwick Farm!


Mark

Mark, just working off the top of my head, and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe a rule was introduced for the Can-Am that said 'no racing engines over 5,000cc' from 1970 onwards. The SR4 was originally intended to contest the 1969 Can-Am, but suffered build delays.

[Ray Bell]

The SR4 would never have been over 5-litres anyway...

Mark, you have picked up the pieces well there. Repco had a very long history of helping drivers, way back to the early fifties if not before.

They supplied stuff for cars like the Maybach (built by Charlie Dean, one of the Repco Directors IIRC), the Ausca of Paul England (who worked there), for Stan Jones beyond the Maybach and more. They put wheel balancing machines into pit areas to help look after that aspect for competitors, they did a lot for the sport.

Just who was paying, or at what rate, might have varied over the years. But one incident which shows that Repco were peeling off some of their profits to pay for racing ventures was the Repco-headed Holden raced by Stan Jones. If memory serves, something about the relationship wasn't right and they took the car back and either sold it at a good price, or gave it, to Bob Holden.

[Mark Bisset]

Ray, i agree, Repco were a massive 'friend of motor racing' generally and supporter of many drivers specifically over the years.

Malcolm Preston's book is excellent, well worth the purchase if you can find a copy, it covers a lot more than just Repco but it has all the important bits in one easily digestible place.

Charlie Dean's role cannot be overstated; the Maybach was the 'thin edge of the wedge' which 25 years later lead bit by bit to '66'/7 World Titles with Black Jack.

I wrote this article about Stan Jones a while back, but it also distils the 'racing culture' Dean infused the place with from the time his business was acquired by Repco, read it and you will be tempted to find Malcolms book!

http://primotipo.com/2014/12/26/stan...d-star-winner/

Steve, i don't think there was a Can Am 'racing engine' limit from 1970; i've not sought to find the rules but Andretti raced the 712M Fazz in '71, at 7 litres the biggest engined racing Ferrari ever. And of course the Porsche 917/10, turbo'd came along in '72.

My understanding is FM planned originally to take the SR4 to the US in '68, not '69.(remember he raced the SR3 with 4.4 litre RB620 Repco in the '67 Can Am) He was 'king of the kids' in Oz in '69 coz the car was running late, Ray may know why, its not something i have researched.

He wouldn't have knocked off the McLaren M8A's in '68, but, if the engines played their part, he would have been far faster than the SR3 the year before...the SR3 was, according to those close to FM, an 'Elfin 400 clone/copy', a design which dated to late '65, the SR4 was 'clean sheet' by FM and Henry Nehrbecki with all the learnings of racing the Elfin 400/SR3 and the opposition they confronted across the Pacific in '67.

'Tis one of racings interesting 'mighta-beens' had it run 'Stateside in '68!

Finally, in some ways it makes sense to me for Repco/FM to keep racing the SR4 in Oz into '71/2; either with the RB760 or new F5000 engine, for sure FM would have been competitive in '71/2 against Harvey's McLaren and Lionel Ayers Rennmax also Repco powered?

...On the other hand the main Repco/FM game in 1970 was making the new Repco Holden F5000 engine competitive and they were sure successful in that endeavour, taking the '70 AGP with it!

Mark

The SR4 would never have been over 5-litres anyway...

Mark, you have picked up the pieces well there. Repco had a very long history of helping drivers, way back to the early fifties if not before.

They supplied stuff for cars like the Maybach (built by Charlie Dean, one of the Repco Directors IIRC), the Ausca of Paul England (who worked there), for Stan Jones beyond the Maybach and more. They put wheel balancing machines into pit areas to help look after that aspect for competitors, they did a lot for the sport.

Just who was paying, or at what rate, might have varied over the years. But one incident which shows that Repco were peeling off some of their profits to pay for racing ventures was the Repco-headed Holden raced by Stan Jones. If memory serves, something about the relationship wasn't right and they took the car back and either sold it at a good price, or gave it, to Bob Holden.