BUILD THREAD For 1964 Falcon Sprint to Monte Carlo Rallye FIA spec'

[Paul B]

While looking for wheels, I was looking to see what was being manufactured in 1964 with regard to mag wheels.
I will likely need to use an alloy rim for racing. Due to the age and rarity of the Kelsey Hays original steel rims and coupled with that the failure rate of many of these steel rims, I have come to the realisation that it will be safer to use an alloy rim. I will likely use and American Racing type rim. I will still restore the OEM steel rims and use these for transporting the car etc.

I found this information on Astro Mag wheel that were produced in 64.

http://losboulevardos.cc/2008/08/eve...-supremes.html

Great if you want to build a low rider

[Spgeti]

They are cool, but a bit flashy...

[Steve Holmes]

While looking for wheels, I was looking to see what was being manufactured in 1964 with regard to mag wheels.
I will likely need to use an alloy rim for racing. Due to the age and rarity of the Kelsey Hays original steel rims and coupled with that the failure rate of many of these steel rims, I have come to the realisation that it will be safer to use an alloy rim. I will likely use and American Racing type rim. I will still restore the OEM steel rims and use these for transporting the car etc.

I found this information on Astro Mag wheel that were produced in 64.

http://losboulevardos.cc/2008/08/eve...-supremes.html

Great if you want to build a low rider

Hi Paul, the Astro Supremes are great looking wheels, but definitely only for road use. They've always just been a custom road wheel, and although there are many companies now making these wheels, they all follow a similar construction method in that they make them as a 2-piece wheel with outer rim and centre/spokes, chrome the pieces separately, then spot weld the two parts together. There have been cases of these wheels breaking on road cars, so definitely no good for a race car.

Its a bit of a tough choice when building a period correct 1964 car, as there weren't too many options in 1964. The Falcon Monte Carlo cars obviously used steel wheels, and even the Falcon Sprints that were road raced in the US for the most part used steel wheels. You could simply purchase a new set of steel wheels from Coker Tire, Wheel Vintiques, etc.

The Falcon Sprints that raced in the British Saloon Car Championship under Group 5 rules used a wide variety of wheels, including Cobra wheels, which look really cool. But of course this falls outside the time-frame you're working to, as these cars raced from 1966 onwards.

Probably the closest wheel style for your time-frame would be the American Racing Torq Thrust. These appeared on Trans-Am cars during the first year of the T-A championship in 1966, and both the Falcon Sprints that now run with Historic Trans-Am use Torq Thrusts, even though these cars raced in period on steel wheels.

I really like the approach Michael Eisenberg has taken with his early Falcon Sprint. He has painted the Torq Thrusts black, which makes them look really nice and subtle while still giving the car a tough look:

[Paul B]

Yes, agree Bruce way too flashy. And yes Steve a real strength problem.
I just like looking at all the old stuff.

Thanks for posting up the 63 Falcon pic, Its quite a good idea painting the whole Torque thrust wheels black.
I was also wondering about using a new repro 64 Mustang Styled steel rim (welded centers) & painted black.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah those look good Paul. I also like the wheels fitted to that original road race Falcon Sprint on the other thread. They look like Shelby wheels?

Anyway, it just dawned on me that the Norm Beechey, Bob Jane and Pete Geoghegan Mustangs all first appeared in 1965, and all three cars wore Torq Thrusts, although the Beechey Mustang initially wore white painted steel wheels.

So too the Ivan Segedin Mustang, which had its first race in late 1965, was also fitted with Torq Thrusts. I've never seen a 1964 photo of a car fitted with Torq Thrusts, but for sure, as after market wheels, these come very close to the date classification of your car.

[Paul B]

The wheels on the unrestored Falcon are Kelsey Hays Magstars from 1967
Wheels are difficult to get right, each car is different, Its probably going to be Torq thrusts. But
The shelby 10 spokes are nice 1965 - 1967

As are Magnum steel rims (which I have a set of)

[Bruce302]

There is steel wheel used on large Canadian Mercury's, it has 5 "windows" and is similar to the ones used on the Australian Falcon GT's
It is supposedly a stronger unit than the average US Ford Pony car wheel and was used by some privateer (lo-buck) racers.

Bruce.

[Paul B]

Thanks Bruce, thats from a Mercury Grand Marquis, not a bad looking rim, Might be a bit too late model for what I am looking for


I have found new some steel rims 15inch x 114.3 in most sizes fully welded centers, could be a possibility. I need to mull it all over.

[Paul B]

Pic of American racing Original - this is the closest Alloy rim to period correct.

[Paul B]

(Continued from post #125)
Bored? nothing to do? what about spending 200+ hours building fiberglass doors.
Well that what it takes to get a door working, as it was from the factory but in Fiberglass.
Its an amazingly complex thing to do due to many tolerances all working correctly for the quarter window to close correctly on the A pillar to the windows being able to slide up and down and the door latch fitting thicker fiberglass vs 1mm steel and ensuring it closes with the correct tolerance to the striker plate. etc. etc. etc.
Heres the pics, ( 1 door is done and the other is close, only gapping to do now)
Here is the new Frame

First layer of single structural fiberglass, laid over 1 layer of 400g chop-mat

Second layer of double structural glass for mechanism reinforcing

Third layer of double structural glass for reinforcing the door frame

The mix ratio of hardner and resin is critical and must be measured precisely so as not to over harden or under harden, a level of flexibility without cracking is desired.
Appling the mesh in stages minimises or better eliminates air bubbles (which affect strength)

[Paul B]

After all that cured I rehung the door and fitted all of the windows, latches etc - MUST have all door rubber on.
The Aluminum brace bar which will remain in the door, this will be bonded (marine urethane) to the outer skin later for bracing to eliminate any possibility of twist flexing.


Then after checking all functions and fits and then fitted the skin to the door and race taped and braced it to cure



After allowing a day to fully cure ITS DONE!! All of the bracing and structural fiberglass has made a really good quality door that closes beautifully and is quite rigid. But most of all much safer


Looks better with the trim fitted - Also the Polycarbonate window is fitted

[Oldfart]

Great work Paul. Your attention to detail is mind boggling.

[Allan]

I note with interest the "passed inspection" sticker on the quarter window, which certainly describes your workmanship.

[928]

as a point of interest, how much lighter are the self made doors?

[Paul B]

Thanks very much Rhys, Its much better being at the other end when its done. Then its nice to sit back and appreciate the fruits of much toil and labour.

Allan, thanks for your post. I find its a bit like racing - Once you've committed to a corner, your really in boots and all.

928, Weight saving with doors - The reality is that there is not really much of a saving if you want to have roll up windows and a fully functional door, the Polycarbonate window is a must to reduce dead weight in the door to help the fiberglass structure. I have yet to weigh the finished door shell but I will be surprised if I save 5kg per door. The OEM steel door shell only, weighs 13.5kg.
Different story if you have horizontal sliding or fixed poly windows.

The real reason for making these is to restore this car exactly as possible to the Graham Hill car #201 from the Monte Carlo Rally to meet FIA #1250 Homologation. Thats the mission.

[Spgeti]

Just a note to the guys following Paul’s fantastic build. The car is being built strictly to the FIA Homologation Papers for his 1964 Falcon Sprint and therefore you can not deviate away from these specifications unless you can prove that in period a modification outside of these actually happened.
The wheels for instance for the Torque Thrust wheels were actually dated when first manufactured which is 1963.
This is how correct Paul is taking his build.

[Bruce302]

Just one I found, sorry no further details.

B.

[Steve Holmes]

Just one I found, sorry no further details.

B.

Thats Roy Pierpoint in the Bill Shaw Racing Falcon. This team ran a Camaro briefly in 1969 before it got written off, at which point they reverted back to the Falcon.

[Paul B]

Thanks Bruce, This pic ^^ is one of the further developed Group5 Falcons which ran later as Steve mentioned above (very successfully too) .
They had much wider rims, a light flaring to the rear fenders, lowered, very low particularly in the rear. They were allowed to run without bumpers and I think these cars were further lightened to try and get to the impossible 980kg Homologation weight.

I would "estimate" the weight of these cars at around 1080kg - Some of todays Appendix K Falcons have a weight of approximately 1160kg and likely struggled to get to that! As far as I am aware 980kg homologation weight was never realised.
So the above car in Group 5 trim, without a rollcage and minus bumpers, Plus whatever else was either swiss cheesed or removed could very likely be 1080kg weight.
in 1968 the engine were stroked to 302, inductions were upgraded to 4 Webers, Cam shaft and Distributor technology leaped back then so the engines were more than likely putting out 400hp+. Power to weight would have been very good for group5.
The Alan Mann Group 5 Falcon had coil springs in the rear. So much development change was made to these cars.
I cant build my car to this spec.
My car will be Appendix K, Group 2, FIA Homologation #1250

[khyndart in CA]

Paul,
I posted these photos on the other Falcon thread.
They show an Alan Mann 1964 Falcon Monte Carlo Rallye car. License number ZE1051







(I really enjoy your inputs and details of your work. You are a true craftsman indeed )

Ken H