Dads pic of the Hartley Escort was at Manfield with the International Pacifics November or December 78
Dads pic of the Hartley Escort was at Manfield with the International Pacifics November or December 78
Ok, my interest is peaked!! I am officially too fat to fit a Formula Pacific car, so need to go searching elsewhere for a potential toy.
Is there a listed that can be provided of any of the original Shellsport cars that are available for sale? I loved these things as I started as a flag marshall at Manfield in 1980, these were great! What happened to the Mike Moore LHD Mark 2 Escort, the Kelford Cams Mark 2 1600 Escort? I crewed for a while on a Datsun 1200 Coupe that was the ex-Sanyo Greg Lancaster car...where did that go? Super excited now...
Remember the Fuel crisis, still have my " TUESDAY " sticker from my 1967 TR4a, Targa Top roadster, car was sold in 1985, to pay the deposit on a house, how sad, as the car had done the 1979/80 Bardhal series hillclimbs for Triumph car Club - Auckland, got the car from Russ Abbott, who ran a workshop in Greenlane Auckland , specialising in TR's and other Triumphs, as had a GT6 before that, belive that Russ went off into the boat world. you can't usually drive your boat to work, but you can drive your sports / racing car.
That,s interesting as I am in the same boat with my MK2 Jaguar, except that my cage is built from chrome moly and I have an engineers report stating that it is 25% stiffer than the tube MSNZ would have me build it from. A cage built to their specs would have a rubber stamp approval but despite numerous representations this has not been forth comingOriginally Posted by ERC
And therein lies one of the major problems racers face when bringing out their old warriors - particularly in NZ with saloons.
When you go to Goodwood for example and see beautiful historic race cars covered in scaffolding, it sullies the experience. Like many on here , I grew up in an age before belts, cages etc., and also the high mortality rate, but when you examine the real figures, it was mainly in F1 and top level sports car races where most fatalities occurred, not at club level.
At the risk of highjacking this thread, saloon car racing at our level with an older cage, has to be safer than say VCC racing where many cars do not even have belts, but is it?
Any sport involving speed has an element of risk, but it has to be a calculated risk. It can never be totally risk free and the minor percentage of extra safety from one tube being slightly stronger is minimal, given that in 99.99% of cases, the car won't be crashed anyway.
Existing cage built to previous regs, car fully trimmed and painted:
Engineer's demands to conform to MSNZ requirements for homologation:
Tell me this isn't farcical - just for a classic road car.
Last edited by ERC; 01-13-2013 at 09:49 PM.
It does seem to be.
Steady on you guys Julian? has the say and claims to have worked for Lotus! we all know how strong Lotus cars are or were!!!
I think most of them are in the South Island now crunch. A forward thinking enthusiast there bought a bunch of them when nobody else wanted them, and likely saved many from extinction. Others do pop up from time to time for sale. One of the Reg Cook Datsuns was for sale a while back, as was the Honda Civic that Cherryl Parnell raced.
I also helped build and crew for Malcolm Webb's Starlet, and knew where that was about 5 years ago; sadly it seems it was broken up into small pieces.
Crunch - I have sent you a PM.
Cheers Mike
Not Shellsport but,
Just recieved an email from Dave Silcock and the roll cage thing has completely buggered him.
Thanks to an official (1 from MSNZ) who can not see the light for not opening his 'expert' shuttered eyes the car will not be seen now.
Time something was sorted in regard to this as 1 person has buggered 1000's of hours work and interferred in our right to see this car.
I will not go through this crap either.
PS. Another official has been very supportive and it is a pity the expert does not listen to him.
This has been simmering on for a while : is there no grounds for appeal? Surely there must be some avenue where logic and knowledge supported by engineering assent and approval can be brought to bear to get this one across the line ?
It would seem unlikely that any organisation would put their full weight behind the opinion of one man, however well-intentioned if misguided.
I don’t want to become embroiled in this subject , but you may well ask Mr Silcock like myself has been building and racing cars for more years than you can poke a stick at and I venture to suggest we have crashed more than a few as well so I would like to suggest that perhaps we have a good understanding of what is necessary to keep our necks as we still have them ! . Have any of these self styled experts ever actually built a car , raced or heaven forbid crashed one , actually for that matter can any of them actually even fish mouth and weld a tube properly personally themselves
Rest my case Bob, well put.
The critical thing here is that the free form cage has to pass a test that the MSNZ approved design would fail.
A total farce and like Dave, Bob and others I am extremely angry about it. I have a distant contact at TV's "Fair Go" and was going to get them filming the removal of the front part of the cage, so that the car then conformed, just to show how stupid it all is. Maybe if we all approach Fair Go before we physically attack the cars with angle grinder or plasma cutters, we might get some sense as it is unfair that those MSNZ officials who are backing us, are unfairly put under the same spotlight?
It is down in B & W that MSNZ is there to encourage participation, not discourage it.
Let me state right at the beginning, that I am right behind Dave in this struggle......I am a friend, and because of all this bullshit, I am going to loose my drive of this amazing car!
I am still not certain what the issue is. Is it the material the cage is constructed of, or the design of the cage itself.
Now the MSNZ official who is presiding over this matter could quite resonably say, well Mr Silcock has been around motoracing since 'Auntie fell off the tram', and he, of anyone should have known to stick to the rules....OR ELSE.....which he presumably did, until they, the rules, got changed mid restoration. And this is the problem, like all restorations it took twice/three times longer than planned.
If it is not written in the Bible.....the MSNZ manual, then dont do it, even it appears nonsense. If it says you can do something, or NOT do something, then that is it. It is in black and white, until that manual is superseded/updated. Is no use quoting manual number 27, when we are now operating under manual 35.
I think the problem here is that the cage was designed and built under one set of rules, then, what do you know, the rules get MODIFIED.....changed for what ever reason. You only need to look at some of the roll-over protection that was in old race cars to see that we have come a long way in safety regulations. I think some rules are rather over the top, but that is too bad. If you want to race, do as you are told, or stay home and do your knitting!!!! Angus is always berating me when I start growling about something, and he has, on numerous occasions told me to shut up, obey the rules as set down, or dont compete.
MSNZ is probably saying, well if we make an exception for one competitor, it will open the door for others to follow. We have to protect our arse you know.
It is so sad that a car like this will most likely be lost to NZ, and if you want to see it run then you will have to go to America, or wherever.
Once upon a time I would have ranted and raved and got an ulcer worrying about some insignificent ruling made by some car hating clerk in Wellington, but now at my age I cant be bothered, and I suspect that is how Dave is thinking at the moment......stuff it, they can stick their rule up.................. So another interesting car gets parked up.
Would be good to see some COMMON SENSE prevail here, but I aint holding my breath.
There, I have been kind to MSNZ, now come to the party you guys and talk to the man sensibly, and with a bit of good will we could get a resolution to everyones satisfaction.
Without getting too involved here-is it the material involved? I understand after a certain recent rally accident, chrome moly cages are a minefield. I recently had my cage built for HMC -seamless steel- and it was homologated within 1 week-I was very impressed with how quickly it was done.
Last edited by John McKechnie; 01-13-2013 at 06:10 AM.
A very good friend of mine went through the same crap with MSNZ over the roll cage in his car. What had been acceptable for years suddenly became unacceptable to the twits in Wellington. He has now sold the car and won't race again. This man has been a competitor in saloons, sportscars and single seaters since the 60's.
Crunch sounds like a decent fellow but the others at MSNZ appear to be mindless F...wits intent on destroying motor racing in this country. Time we went our own way and disregarded MSNZ completely.
First, can someone start a thread on "Rollcages for Historic and Classic race cars" to save this thread.
OK, I shouldn't be getting embroiled in this conversation as i don't have all the facts but going on what i've read here on the RR, why is it that John McKechnie can build his HMC falcon and have the cage homologated and log booked in 1 week when others have issues? what has he done right that others haven't? I've probably built 6 Mustang rollcages in the last 10 or so years and have NEVER had a problem getting them passed, logbooked, stamped, boom bang done, paid, out the door, even with rules changes!! So whats the REAL issues here? because if its about building a cage to the current day specs "at the time" and then trying to homologate and logbook it say "1 to 10" years later well you're just asking for trouble as current day rules in most anything are constantly changing and on the move, is this the problem? if so well im sorry im with the MSNZ tech guys on this.
There are currently other cage issues like MSNZ not wanting to logbook an existing overseas schedule K Historic race car that has its overseas logbook and paperwork and that has been raced overseas since the early 70's because the cage doesn't fit current MSNZ standards, but thats another story.
Dale(im about to get shot down forsure)Mathers
I am having trouble understanding something here -if you do the cage as per regulations in the MSNZ book, why will it not be homologated?
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