The date on back say's Ron Grable Spectre HR-1 Bay Park 26/12/68 I can remember them running but did not realise it was around then. Time goes by, and here we are playing with them again, so good.
The date on back say's Ron Grable Spectre HR-1 Bay Park 26/12/68 I can remember them running but did not realise it was around then. Time goes by, and here we are playing with them again, so good.
Spectre - Katipo, you have to wonder if there is a connection?
real thing
I saw this car in 2000 in adelaide shop covered in dust
owner now wants large $ on it
plenty of F5000 cars around for less
never been my cup of tea a nice F2 car does the business easier for less$$ and for similar $$ you can have an F1 car
Yes I know Im behind you guys, i like warm beer and it rains a lot here too.
Driftwood, as before, get down here and watch,listen, and learn. And 30 odd cars on grid sometimes. Yep F2 are neat and sound good, but not many around or the guy's wear different clothes and hair designs. F5000 put a real engine up your shoulder blades. Ask Greg Murphy what he thinks of them (hope we do not have to explain who Greg Murphy is). Agree some people have put silly $s on some cars but there are reasonable ones around, you get this with anything thats become a favorite and sort after thing.
Found these tucked away in little box, not the best but taken with little plastic camera back then. Note the Japs did not invent the tyre saver.
Also found in the same box from a even older camera a photo of my first ever comp. car. Amazing
Last one
Ive seen the cars run in UK when the kiwis came here
They didn't float my boat enough to ever want to own one
i could have bought any running F5000 car in 1999 2000/01 for sub £50k now they want 100 plus
In Oz & NZ you never had international series from up north except F5000 & then atlantic which is why you guys have plumped for these cars today.
Chevy cheap power & easy and economical to rebuild over F1 DFV and probably a BDA
You have 3 million people in NZ, Oz has population equal to London so its logical that we have a lot more people, categories, dates and venues to race cars and we get major date clashes so car owners with F5000 that own other cars can often be spread around and grids thin.
NZ has adopted F5000 as its primary category in historics and you get all the cars out at the 3 January festival events so it looks spectacular
I remember watching 30 car grids of Historic F1 and F2 cars but the economic climate over the last 4 years has meant the F1 grids are halved and the 1600 & 2 litre F2 grids have merged
Owning an F1 car will always be worth 2 F5000 cars in kudos and history and cut the mustard at the golf club bar but I don't know if it will pull a chick !
Yes I know Im behind you guys, i like warm beer and it rains a lot here too.
Thats whats wrong I don't play golf. Mind you most Kiwis played rugby at some time so theres another difference.
Sorry to hear the economic climate is interferring with the golf and gin. Good to hear there is still racing though.
Yep, prefer the chick.
Driftwood - maybe you don't relaise but we had plenty of Brabhams and Lotuses and Coopers with their shrill 4 cylinder engines. Not far from what almost sunk F1 in the early 60s with the pathetic 1500cc rule. I was introduced to motor racing full of these cars and they tend to have shrunk into my memory as pale grey images. I barely remember Kenny Smith and David Oxton out of their 5 litre cars - you know what I wouldn't mind betting they feel the same way about their 180 horsepower exotica.
Yes of course F1 is and has always been the greatest expression of single seater motorsport but at a few times has had serious rivals. F5000 is one during an all-too-brief period of the 70s, (I can think of Champcars in their heyday also, and forgive me for also mentioning sports racing cars like CanAm and the great Ferrari v Porsche battles) and to suggest that somehow F5000 is sub dig is, with respect, snobbery of the highest order. These cars got the crowds to the circuits, brought the crowds to the fences, and all too briefly revitalised open wheeler racing away from the European F1 circus. To be able to peddle a F5000 competitively was to show you were in possession of balls - twin cam 4-cylinder racing was for blouses by comparison.
If you read some of the history of sixties F1 you will find that ALL the top drivers loathed the 1500s. At that time Clark, Hill, Surtees, Brabham and all brought a bit more grunt to the "OK Corral" when they spent their Northern Hemisphere winters downunder with, I think, it's 2.5 litre limit. Once the superstars all packed up and got serious about the BUSINESS of F1 with fag packet racing, a new formula was needed, F5000 was just the bill - noisy, fast and established who could really peddle a serious bit of kit. Sure the crowds who came to see Jimmy and Jochen and JYS and so on were slightly diminished but it was still a huge crowd every Christmas.
The passing of F5000s was the end of the huge crowds that flocked to Baypark and Puke and Wigram and Teretonga and Warwick Farm and..... The sound of vanilla 4 cylinder cars like Ralts and Van Diemens was the start of the end, even with great peddlers like Rosberg and Moreno.
You maybe are more interested in "pedigree" whatever that is, than seriously fast and demanding racecars and good on you but respectability at the golf club - my dear old thing! I'm sure owning a Brabham or Cooper twin cam wouldn't get you talked about in the bar! Myself, I love delightful cars like Lotus 72s and McLaren M23s etc but when they become too rare and valuable to race they have to be put in a museum. That is sadder than the mayhem at Hampton Downs every January! I do hope you come down and see that we aren't all just about F5000s at the Festival of Motor Racing. I spoke to a gentleman from Germany (the BMW factory) who visited NZ for the first time and was absolutely blown away by everything he experienced while he was here at the FOMR. And it didn't rain ALL the time.
Last edited by Murray Maunder; 02-19-2012 at 12:45 PM.
I'd be interested to see some figures to back that upOriginally Posted by Murray Maunder
As I remember it, F5000 steadily lost its public appeal after its first few years, but the crowds picked up once Formula Pacific was introduced in 1977 (only to drop away again after the first few seasons)
Im off to the golf club for a stiff G & T or 3 before i get round to replying as my soft pommy feelings have been bruised & battered by you rough n tough kiwis it may take me a while to get over it!!
Now where is my umbrella ??
Yes I know Im behind you guys, i like warm beer and it rains a lot here too.
Driftwood - as I think I implied, I hope you come down and enjoy Kiwi hospitality and see for yourself the array of what constitutes motor racing down under. F5000 was incredibly spectacular, but with rose tinted glasses off, often the attrition rate was high and not all racing was of the highest order. But this was no different to F1 of the era when completing a GP with relatively few problems would usually guarantee a top 6 finish and the racing could be largely processional. F5000s nicely filled a void with a lack of availability of F1 type cars and drivers after 1968.
Yes David, you are correct, and F5000 here as elsewhere had a relatively short period where it was really strong. As it diminished, so too did the crowds. Looking at the F5000s at this year's Festival, the unreliability of the cars presented, and the modern compulsion with throwing a red flag at the first sign of trouble, resulted in farcical events. However when the racing of these cars is less than nail biting the crowd can enjoy the sound and general spectacle of the cars. To hear 30 of them thunder up HD's main straight and take the start line green lights is spine tingling stuff.
And finally, the drivers' view - the guys who race or drive them now, including youngsters from Michael Lyons to Greg Murphywax lyrical about the thrill of driving them. As spectators we know - we can see the effort and skill it takes to drive them on or near the limit.
Last edited by Murray Maunder; 02-19-2012 at 08:17 PM.
Driftwood - as I think I implied, I hope you come down and enjoy Kiwi hospitality and see for yourself the array of what constitutes motor racing down under. F5000 was incredibly spectacular, but with rose tinted glasses off, often the attrition rate was high and not all racing was of the highest order. But this was no different to F1 of the era when completing a GP with relatively few problems would usually guarantee a top 6 finish and the racing could be largely processional. F5000s nicely filled a void with a lack of availability of F1 type cars and drivers after 1968.
Yes David, you are correct, and F5000 here as elsewhere had a relatively short period where it was really strong. As it diminished, so too did the crowds. Looking at the F5000s at this years Festival, the unreliability of the cars presented, and the modern
compulsion with throwing a red flag at the first sign of trouble, resulted in farcical events. However when the racing of these cars is less than nail biting the crowd can enjoy the sound and general spectacle of the cars. To hear 30 of them thunder up HD's main straight and take the start line green lights is spine tingling stuff.
And finally, the drivers. All from Kenny to young Michael Lyons talk enthusiastically about how great it is to drive cars which require skill and commitment and balls. We mere spectators can see this from the edge of the track, brave stuff!
Last edited by Murray Maunder; 02-19-2012 at 08:20 PM.
Lets face it, historic racing in different countries tends to reflect the type of cars that competed in period in those countries. And the following each formula enjoyed in period plays a role in the desirability of those cars today. A full grid of F5000 cars booming away from a rolling start in modern historic racing makes the hairs on the back of my next stand on end. But the emotions they stir up are different for different people. And the pecking order they enjoyed in period in different countries around the world may have something to do with that.
F5000 enjoyed a strong following in Australia and NZ, and Australia stuck with the formula right through until the early 80s. And in both of these counties the formula was considered the premier racing category. But this wasn't the case in the UK, nor was it the case in the US. Read my story on the Penske Lola T330 AMC. Penske were already racing in USAC, Can-Am, and NASCAR in 1973 before they gave any sort of consideration to F5000. The same was true for the UK. There were other categories considered more prominent, and in modern historic racing these categories are still considered more prominent. In Australia and NZ, however, F5000 was where the best local drivers raced, and so it seems natural the formula is held in higher regard in these countries.
Australia and NZ probably began to take after the US more so than the UK as the 60s rolled into the 70s, leaning more towards stock block large capacity V8 motors in both open wheeler and sedan racing, whereas the UK (post-war) has had more interest in smaller capacity, higher revving, and more technical motors. That change is still apparent now, especially in sedan racing, where the UK prefers small capacity motors, Aus and NZ, like the US, prefer large capacity, and relatively basic, stock block V8s. Its interesting to read the pros and cons for the various formulae from different people from around the world. The fact is, there is no wrong or right answer, just different opinions.
In essence Steve you are hitting the nail on the head
not knocking Murrays view but we can all get misty eyed over the past and memories distort what was reality from what we want to believe was great!
Look at modern F1- it does absolutely nothing for me but show me 1992-97 cars I get interested in watching an old GP or looking over the cars.
NZ has adopted F5000 for its premier Historic single seater category mainly due to big power for low $$ outlay and maintenance compared to say F Atlantic and have bought in from UK USA many cars and certainly more cars than there ever where in NZ in period.
In OZ they had from 2001 to 2007 a big rush on for F Atlantic cars when they opened up from pre 80 cars through to 86 cars either restoring what they had or importing RT4 from USA but NZ never jumped through the hoop
Some of this is likely to be down to the cost of BDA rebuild and the small population
Up in euroland F2 1600 and 2 litre from 70-84 and F Atlantic cars have been what tickled our fancy with the pure race engine and sounds
When my BMW F2 engine is started up my guys have to go and change their under wear as the excitement is just too much - I don't see that from a big Chevy whether its F5000 or Lola T70 sports car
DFV is another motor that requires fresh underwear
but i guess its Blonde or brunettes beer or wine each to their own but the bottom line is that NZ has historic cars to run at premier meetings to kick start things but if you want to see real race engines visit the northern hemisphere festivals when we have F1 F2 Gp 6 sports cars racing and pack fresh underwear
Yes I know Im behind you guys, i like warm beer and it rains a lot here too.
One of the best historic races I ever saw was at Silverstone several years ago. The race was a Supersports Cup race which included a collection of Can-Am, closed sports prototypes, and 70s 2 litre sports cars. Behind the leading Can-Am cars, there was a gaggle of cars including several Chevron B19s, Lola T292, an Osella Pa3, and a TOJ, and this group were running like a high speed freight train, ducking and diving, and tailing each other on the straights. It was really impressive, really close racing, and the noise was amazing.
yes great way to spend your kids inheritance building up a car with so many parts missing!!
I sold the owner a DG300 gear case this time last year to put towards his pile of parts
what amazes me is he is not a young un to take on such a project !!
He did come down to run his car with you guys this winter that he originally raced when the lola was new back in the days when life was black n white and NZ had electricity
Yes I know Im behind you guys, i like warm beer and it rains a lot here too.
Aha, the Golf club verse the Rugby club, two totally different places, with different equipment. (note how many kiwis propping up your rugby know), as kiwis did back in the hey day of F2,F1 (still). Where would you be without us Driftwood. PS what is your weather doing as we have not recieved our summer yet.
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