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Thread: This is getting ridiculous

  1. #1

    This is getting ridiculous

    The following was part of an email I received today regarding the upcoming Icebreaker meeting 22/23 September:

    New Hampton Downs safety requirements

    On 24 July 2018, Hampton Downs issued the following announcement:

    With our continued drive towards improving safety where possible, we would like to inform you of some requirements for hosting and running a motorsport event here at Hampton Downs.

    So in no particular order:

    -Frontal Head Restraints - Both Hampton Downs and Highlands will be making Frontal Neck Restraint (FHR) devices mandatory for all track-based speed activities at Highlands and Hampton Downs. These devices have been proven tosignificantly reduce the risk of serious injury or death. This rule covers both permitted and non-permitted events.
    For vehicles which have a 4 point harness or great, there are various tethered devices available including Hans, NecksGen REV, Impact Accel or Simpson Hybrid. These are acceptable.
    For vehicles fitted with a standard lap and diagonal 3-point belt system a Foam roll/collar types is acceptable.

    -Electrical Tag and Testing all electrical equipment that is to be plugged in the HD electrical supply within the garages or any other areas will need to have a current Tag-&-Test tag on it. If a piece of equipment is seen connected without a current cert the team/driver will be asked unplug it.

    -Infield parking this has improved massively and your assistance with the no-parking behind the garages is greatly appreciated as it has now significantly reduce the risk of fire and pedestrian verse car incidents on site as well as increased the accessibility to the garages. What we would like to reiterate is maintaining clear access roads into the site. This is still a constant issue and once again is needed not only from a H&S point of view but also from a practical point to allow the recovery teams easy access to the various track entry points when they are need to attend an incident.

    -Fire extinguishers is has been noted on a number of occasions that a few teams are arriving at the track without a fire extinguisher to have available when refuelling. We would like you to remind competitors/drivers of their obligations to have one on hand at all times when refuelling this does not include using the ones that are positioned in the pitlane boxes at HD.

    -Refuelling when refuelling we now require you to have a spill matt under the vehicle to catch any spilt fuel. These are able to be purchased at any safety shop.

    With many thanks from us all at Hampton Downs.

    Seems like these are all effective immediately as no date is given?

    Heaps of people will have to buy a new helmet as their current one won't have / be able to have HANS posts attached to it. So there goes at least $2000 for helmet and HANS device, plus quite possibly a new harness to fit over the HANS device. Or if you can't afford $2.5G's for all that, throw away the 5 point harness and put the standard lap-and-diagonal seatbelt back in and you only need a foam neck roll. That's safer!!!

    The electrical test and tag is the biggest scam since WoF's. Test and Tag is NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT!!!!!! Read it here https://worksafe.govt.nz/topic-and-i...al-appliances/ It's a big money making scam under the pretext of safety, and every man and his dog is falling over themselves to jump on the bandwagon that is sailing over the test and tag cliff. Why do you think switchboards have RCD's? To protect the person from electric shock. You can have an appliance tested and tagged - that only means it was in serviceable condition at the time of the test, just like your car was at WoF time. Who knows what happened after that? It could have a damaged cord or some other fault, but as long as it's got that magic sticker on it, you're good to go. I honestly hope whoever dreamt up the whole test and tag scam, dies by electrocution. Same for every idiot that can't think for themselves and goes along with the whole test and tag scam.

    The other thing with Test and Tag is, any moron can do it. All you have to do is some horsesh*t couple of hours course somewhere and be deemed "competent", then you can test and tag to your heart's content. You'll have no idea what is happening electrically, what the tests are actually doing and testing, nor be able to explain why the appliance failed and what needs fixing, but hey you're now a Test and Tag guy / girl. Are you going to trust your life to some bozo with no qualifications when he tells you your appliance won't kill you?? What a joke. By the way, I know what's happening, because among other things I'm a registered electrician.

    And now you'll have to go and buy a spill mat to put petrol in your car. You can keep that next to the refuelling fire extinguisher, the sheets of plywood you have to put the jack and axle stands on, and whatever else they care to dream up. Have to buy a bigger car to cart all this extra crap around!! My God it is never ending.

    So what are we getting for the "safety levy" that is charged at every meeting, when we have to provide all the gear? We are paying them so we can use our own safety gear?? Seems to me that we get exactly nothing for the "safety levy" fee? If it looks like a scam, and smells like a scam, it probably is a ......?

    Why don't they just can car racing full stop, because it's obviously far too dangerous. The car club I belong to has the club circuit booked at the end of next month, for circuit sprints. I'd imagine it's a permitted event, so we're all going to have to have HANS devices or foam neck braces? In a MGTC doing 45mph with a strong tail wind? If that day still goes ahead, after that I doubt I'll ever go back to HD. Between all this garbage from HD, the exorbitant charges from HD and MNZ, and all the other compliance / licence / authority card / everything else, it's just not enjoyable anymore. No one in classic racing is doing it for the money, so what else is there to do it for??

    So to sum it all up to two words, for me at least, I'll go with "nail", preceded by "final".

    My boss at work is the crew chief for 2NZ Sprint Car at Western Springs. I drove the truck to Palmy last season, and helped out at Western Springs too. Was fun, enjoyable, and I learnt a few things too. Guess I'll be playing in the dirt from now on......

  2. #2
    Semi-Pro Racer Spgeti's Avatar
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    We have been advised the date for all this Andrew is 13th August....yes 2018.

  3. #3
    Thanks Spgeti. Nice of them to give us a decent amount of notice to save the shekels up to buy all this extra expensive gear.............

    Might as well sell my car then. Halfway through getting it going again too, was looking forward to hitting the track. Can't even do a test day at Pukekohe without getting creamed $45 first for a "pit exit licence". Another scam that achieves nothing except to line the pockets of the track operators........
    Last edited by Andrew Metford; 07-28-2018 at 07:25 AM.

  4. #4
    And they wonder why people race on the street....

  5. #5
    When Targa introduced compulsory FHR, and speedway collars weren't accepted, I made myself unavailable to the driver I had many very pleasant events with. There was zero negotiation to accept that the requirement to be able to exit the vehicle unassisted within the FIA mandated timeframe would, or could be compromised in some vehicles.
    I would suspect that there will be a whole lot of vehicles not allowed out. What about the fields of 2K cup, slowly growing vintage racing (although I wonder where this will all sit with VCC rules and permits which vintage runs under?) although they do say "track-based speed activities at Highlands and Hampton Downs".
    As I would read this, all driver training, eg BMW and others that use the venues needs to comply as well, unless the next restriction is "road legal speeds".
    TQ has previously stated that grass roots motorsport should take place on grass fields, I guess this is another step towards that.
    What I don't get is that for a circuit to be financially viable it needs to have as many days as permits will allow, and as many cars entering as can be accommodated. The only other option is to hike the fees so that the very few left cover the same financial base.

    I thinks it's past time when the rule makers had a look where the most severe crashes happen, week in, week out, and that's the dirt ovals, and see what they require, it would be educational, or is it going to go back to, "We know best?"

    Bizarre!
    Last edited by Oldfart; 07-28-2018 at 10:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Will be interesting to see how the grid numbers stack up this year, especially 2kcup and ERC, where I think a lot of budget racers will take this as the last straw........btw, is there enough FHR's in the country to supply this new requirement? And if it's not in Schedule A is it legit? Between this and Taupo's determination not to have events at their track no wonder cars are staying in sheds......Will have to have compulsory airbags in our cars next - try that in your 1937 MG....
    Last edited by Reeceracer; 07-28-2018 at 10:29 AM.

  7. #7
    We put this on our Sports Sedan website on Friday so no one would have a last minute surprise, it was bad enough early this year with the underwear/gloves/sox/balaclava requirements
    I passed this on to the Supercart brigade , they couldnt believe that it was for go-karts.
    Please note that this came from Hampton Downs/Highland Park track, as coordinator I have not received this from other tracks.
    BTW...I was once paralyzed and have chosen to run HANS for the past year.
    I value my neck and mobility
    Last edited by John McKechnie; 07-29-2018 at 12:00 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeceracer View Post
    Will be interesting to see how the grid numbers stack up this year, especially 2kcup and ERC, where I think a lot of budget racers will take this as the last straw........btw, is there enough FHR's in the country to supply this new requirement? And if it's not in Schedule A is it legit? Between this and Taupo's determination not to have events at their track no wonder cars are staying in sheds......Will have to have compulsory airbags in our cars next - try that in your 1937 MG....

    Is there a way that this could be made more public? Is there someone on their committee that reads this Forum? Can someone transfer this discussion to their Facebook page where it could reach more readers? I sincerely hope so because we have the good guys trying to introduce affordable racing with new brilliant ideas and then we get these (can't say it) that does the opposite and try and prevent racing.


    Just leave me alone let me race. There isn't anybody holding a gun in my back and forcing me to get into that car. I'm doing it on my own, FFS. I am not shy to say it but I am only just making ends meet. Don't make it more difficult, it is already bordering on the last straw. I am sure there are many in my position.


    Regards, Frans.

  9. #9
    Car stops quickly in an accident....excellent idea if the neck stops quickly as well

  10. #10
    World Champion ERC's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I'm afraid that mandating this sort of extra safety requirement over and above what MSNZ dictates is over the top.

    Do you need neck restraints or protection when skiing? Riding a horse? Skateboarding? Rollerblading? Mountaineering?

    This is to do with personal safety and there is no third party risk. Therefore, surely a choice for the individual to make?

    This is a killer blow for beginners, but note that you can race with a 3 point road legal safety belt and a foam collar, so isn't this a somewhat hypocritical stance? Take out your 4/5/6 point harness in a standard or mildly modified car, remove the roll cage forward of the main hoop, revert to the standard seat and all you need is a foam collar?

    Maybe TQ has missed the point that without grassroots, beginner or entry level sport, there won't be any sport at all... OK for someone flogging just one of his companies for over $400mAUD, spending $2.4m on a Vulcan, but for young Freddy with a 2K Cup car? Graduating to a neck device a season or two down the career or hobby path is fine, but for a first up, first season expense?

    Glad I've retired on my terms and wasn't totally forced into it.

    Incidentally, my spinal damage was caused when working on the car. I broke a finger trying remove trailer ramps. I smashed my bicep when being towed. Race injuries? Nil.

    I have suggested to the current ERC Convenor that he polls the ERC members to see just how many will be running at Icebreaker and maybe consider just one grid instead of two, as I can't see a full grid of 46 at HD or Pukekohe in the near or distant future, even with the grids combined. That being so, even more beginners will be put off.
    Last edited by ERC; 07-29-2018 at 02:23 AM.

  11. #11
    Its all to do with avoiding "liability" should an incident happen, Quinn has just got in first that's all. Myself and Bruce have been associated with this last season when we found out we could possibly be held "personally responsible" of the actions of others with-in our group, on and off the track, and because we weren't affiliated to MSNZ we didn't come under their insurance package, and here we are doing it voluntary duh...………..so, we have for this season implemented a "Registration" form which all must sign putting the onerous back onto the competitor/driver/owner and those associated with that person, in our group, sad but reality...……..Mr Quinn as a track owner has taken it a step further and I don't blame him.

  12. #12
    Semi-Pro Racer Spgeti's Avatar
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    Having been involved in a work place death many years ago and a serious life altering injury as well I can totally understand the reaction to the current H&S legislation. I do support the move to FHR but I feel that the lack of lead in time and lack of consultation is not helpful.
    Believe me you do not want to go thru a death on track and face the following inquiries that take place.
    I can full understand the reaction of Mr Quinn and his management team but there are areas that need to be looked at as not every car is suitable for the drivers to wear a FHR and I am talking about older single seater, open sports cars and period specials.

    I am sure that this will evolve over the next few weeks but we as a country are way behind others in this area.

  13. #13
    I wonder what MSNZ think of this?
    All tracks in NZ can only operate if they have the appropriate track licence issued by FIA but under the auspicious of MSNZ regulations. MSNZ have established the requisite competitor safety requirements and these are detailed in the MSNZ Manual.
    What has happened is that HD has apparently ignored MSNZ's competitor safety requirements and created their own regulations. MSNZ should be very concerned that a track owner has supplanted their own regulations over and above MSNZ's regulations. While in this case HD's regs are more robust than MSNZ's, the precedent has been created and next time a track owner may try and dictate lesser regs for competitors.
    As far as driver and car safety is concerned there should be one set of rules (MSNZ's) and the track owners should not get involved in this aspect of the sport.
    With respect to the tagging of electrical equipment I don't think that HD have the legal position to impose this on competitors. There is no legal contract between HD and competitors that HD can rely on. The only contract is between HD and the track hirer.
    There is also no stated size for the absorbent fuel mat - I have a beer coaster that is absorbent so I might bring that along ....

  14. #14
    News Flash! Hampton Downs has now ruled that all open wheelers be equiped with the Halo Device.....effective immediately....

  15. #15
    World Champion ERC's Avatar
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    ...and no overtaking allowed. Only cars valued at over $500,000 accepted.

    All pit crew to wear fire resistant kilts - and must have at least one Scot in the crew.

    Racing to be concluded by 3pm and maximum grid size reduced to 6 cars. No grid starts, rolling starts only but with 12 seconds between each car. Meetings will not start before 10:30am.

    All spectators must wear sun hats or if wet, purchase a HD branded umbrella and males must wear long sleeved clothing and no shorts allowed. Females under the age of 16 and over 45 may wear skimpy clothing, but those between 16 and 44 must also be covered from head to foot.

    Spectator entry will be by season ticket only ($1,250) and will not be allowed on the infield and confined to the bank on the start/finish straight.

    Car parking for all events will be $15 minimum, rising to $50 for meetings with GTs included and $100 for premier events.

    The track will close permanently 2023 claiming lack of support and the land sold for a village housing complex, specifically for the homeless or more than likely, as an extension to Springhill Prison.

    You read it here first.
    Last edited by ERC; 07-29-2018 at 07:53 PM.

  16. #16
    Every time an extra cost or increase is imposed, you quietly loss a couple of more cars off the grid.
    Recently we have had an the following
    H+S levy
    Entry cost
    Transponder hire to $70.00
    Fireproof underwear
    HANS, which will extend to a new helmet.
    etc no doubt.

    The promoters and owners are fine to impose these requirements, but equally folks can also choose not to enter, and this is what has been happening for some time.
    No doubt, I will buy a hans in my own good time, however, at this stage, the 2 cars we were entering for HD will, due to cost , will not be running. I wonder how many others will also quietly drop away.

    I recall the organizers running the wellington sevens, ( not realizing, at that point, who really held the power) decided to clamp down on the drunken revelers. So the drinkers stayed away and everybody was happy. Except bugger all people attended, and it was likely only then, that it dawned on them, that the folks they alienated, by imposing these requirements, were actually their customer base.

  17. #17
    You can scratch another 2 cars as well.....

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ERC View Post
    ...and no overtaking allowed. Only cars valued at over $500,000 accepted.

    All pit crew to wear fire resistant kilts - and must have at least one Scot in the crew.

    Racing to be concluded by 3pm and maximum grid size reduced to 6 cars. No grid starts, rolling starts only but with 12 seconds between each car. Meetings will not start before 10:30am.

    All spectators must wear sun hats or if wet, purchase a HD branded umbrella and males must wear long sleeved clothing and no shorts allowed. Females under the age of 16 and over 45 may wear skimpy clothing, but those between 16 and 44 must also be covered from head to foot.

    Spectator entry will be by season ticket only ($1,250) and will not be allowed on the infield and confined to the bank on the start/finish straight.

    Car parking for all events will be $15 minimum, rising to $50 for meetings with GTs included and $100 for premier events.

    The track will close permanently 2023 claiming lack of support and the land sold for a village housing complex, specifically for the homeless or more than likely, as an extension to Springhill Prison.

    You read it here first.

    You left out the rule that all motorcycles must have roll cages........

  19. #19
    Lets not forget the brand new regulation that says all cars on the track must be preceded by a person on foot waving a red flag.

  20. #20
    As a hard roadside bank hitting Targa competitor and a former Ambulance Officer I have for some time recommended the use of HANS devices.

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