Ha....What about road cones on every corner?Originally Posted by nigel watts
Ha....What about road cones on every corner?
Hi Allan, I don't think anybody here is disputing the effectiveness of the HANS device. At all. It's more the way this "rule' has been implemented on top of the continuous rising costs of going for a skid on a racetrack.
Also generally kiwis like to have a choice in when and how they do things not told what and now.... We are all aware that motorsport is risky and that's part of the appeal, but if some choose to not wear a HANS device then that should be their call. A bit like I "choose" to race my sportbike at 260kph+ wrapped in old cow skin but I choose not to do Targa events for exactly the reason you unfortunately discovered...
Sincerely hope you recovered from that ok, Cheers, Reece.
Given the 300+ deaths on NZ's public roads each year, maybe every road user and every passenger should also wear a 4 point harness (whoops, you can't 'cos it is to all intents and purposes, illegal...), plus fire resistant clothing and a HANS type device?
As pointed out above, this is going to do absolutely nothing to improve entry levels at minor events, including learner type track days or even those of us with cars fitted with roll protection, but who have given up competitive events, just wanting to do a low level track day.
The lack of consultation and the motivation behind it should be publicly addressed by either TQ (preferably) or maybe the senior member of his team who thought this was a good idea?
When an organising club hires the track, surely they apply the rules and accept the responsibilities associated with running an event, whatever it might be, not the venue owner?
Alan, post #20 there is a difference between recommending, and making compulsory. I always wore a foam collar, speedway approved, and could exit the car in the mandated time. With the compulsory Hans (not FHR, but specifically Hans) I could not. So now what do you recommend, not enter?
As I now work in the safety industry, I have been following the research from FIA, that notes that while injuries have decreased with the use of "containment seats" and FHR (forward head restraint) there has been a large increase in the number of short term unconsciousness and concussion. 2 things come to mind; if the incident occurs where there is nobody around, is there a possibility when there is fire the occupant(s) can't get out because of the black out? Secondly, who would carry the can for imposing a rule that actually created the secondary issue?
An aside to this, local (to me) sprint course at Curborough has a minimum of 4 days a month where you pay your money (£50) for a half day, maximum of 5 cars for the session, and go and run the sprint course as often, or few, as you like. You are likely to get over 25 runs if you want. It is controlled by a club volunteer to ensure safety, one car at a time on the track.
Requirement is; club membership (£20 odd all in), crash helmet. That's it. No race licence, no fees for MSA (equivalent of MSNZ)..
And guess what, they are getting more entrants to events, the sessions are almost always full, they are getting more taking parts in events
This to me is very enlightened
Last edited by Oldfart; 07-30-2018 at 07:35 AM.
Interesting Rhys, as to enter a club sprint at Curborough, when I last called in, (2004) was £85. I competed many, many times there and you generally got just two practice and maybe two or three timed runs! At that time, there was also a huge shift to organised track days at circuit such as Donington, as official race entry fees were rising so fast.
The same thing was on the cards here but if the track owner imposes such restrictions, then the options for those not wanting to get into the somewhat more risky and expensive racing, are effectively being shut out.
I too have worn a foam collar and I do own a Defnder FHR, but quite honestly, didn't get on with it at all, so never actually raced wearing it.
What most don't realise is that the angle of your driving seat dictates the device, so if any driver runs more than one car, say a single seater with an inclined seat and a saloon with a very upright seat, they may well need two devices, as the range of adjustment is either limited or there is no adjustment at all and they are totally fixed. Be very aware that you cant just 'buy a restraint' and all will be well.
I'm a bit out of date with the current helmet requirements and not so long ago, not all helmets were suitable for having the posts fitted for the tethers.
I can't stress too highly that before purchasing, a restraint or a helmet, drivers should seek professional advice from a respected supplier.
http://www.chicane.co.nz/products.asp?CategoryID=9
Well it just keeps going on, I may be negotiable to supply electrical tagging, fuel spill kit (real monty), New helmet and HANS device along with written instructions on when, where, and how you shall park. Also what certification/qualification you will require to go for a piss by yourself, and legal advice on how to defend yourself if caught/accused of enjoying yourself. All this free to the person who buys my Escort so they can store it away for another 30 odd years. I have honestly been watching this festering boil for few years, and that is why I have not rushed in to finish car. Cost, Cost, Cost. it is a grand to go for a few laps now (and that's with no F-Ups) once you could do club days for 40-50 bucks entry. Sad.
As I was sitting in my racecar this afternoon reminicing back to when motor racing was affordable, I had a fantastic brainwave....
NZ needs 2 types of race circuits!
One would be for the racers that compete for the love of the sport and machines and just want a sealed circuit with nice big runoffs, no ridiculous concrete walls...(Puke take note...), a nice grassy pit/camping area (like old Taupo),Sat night BBQ's,( great part of GTRNZ which is now banned at HD!) great spectator viewing without prison fences everywhere, no expensive multi-story pit garages and empty conference rooms with latte coffee machines,doesn't matter if the lawn's haven't been manicured in the last 2 day's or you want to stay overnight in your tent/motorhome/back seat to ease accommodation costs and make it a social weekend with your mates.
No "Pit Exit Fee" (what the f#@%s with that Puke?? Do I get it back when I enter the pits??), and entry fees that aren't trying to recover all the "Look at me, my racetrack's flasher than your's" bullshit expenses from the hobby racer.....,(Am I missing old Taupo and Baypark?)
When I'm King of NZ and have unlimited funds that's what I'm gonna build and most of you are invited.
The other type of circuits (you can figure that one out) are for people who are not invited to my tracks.
Yep.
Last edited by Reeceracer; 07-30-2018 at 07:26 PM.
Just to clarify my earlier post, these days I mention are mid week and untimed. For some just wanting to "scratch the itch" or do some settling of a new build etc, they really fit the bill. Still loads of timed events otherwise, evenings, weekends....
My thoughts are that you ask the person asking for all their new requirements for a copy of their up to date insurance certificate of currency.
You will not get it from them but it is fun to watch them squirm as they have to make urgent phone calls to seek clarification from HQ.
AASA who have caused havoc for CAMS in Australia may be trying to infiltrate the NZ scene via TQ.
Last edited by Kwaussie; 07-30-2018 at 12:29 PM.
Here is a little something regarding vintage racing car requirements. "Sportscar Vintage Racing Assoc." SVRA.
From the land of "Ambulance Chasers".
https://svra.com/wp-content/uploads/...les-1.18-1.pdf
KH
Last edited by khyndart in CA; 07-30-2018 at 06:54 PM.
That’s a very good read Ken.
Here is some more information in the form of U tube clips which are very informative with regard to choosing the correct FHR device to suit your car driving position and in the first clip, actually what happens in a collision and how this equipment works to save lives.
I suppose we are at a point now where it is here (as it is mandatory in some other nations, with some pre war & historic exceptions etc)
So, for me its is really just a case of getting on with it. It is what it is, 21st century safety is here now. That's just how I have to see it.
The timing of Hampton Downs and Highlands could have been managed much better, I am sure we all agree. Maybe HD & HL auto courses working more in conjunction and resolute with MSNZ would have been a much more suitable way forward, having 1 controlling body (MSNZ) with regard to on track safety is in my opinion the best and should still be the only option.
Anyway here are the clips
ignore or fast forward the first 22 seconds of this video
Please ignore or fast forward the first 22 seconds of this video.
That's my sixpence worth.
Last edited by Paul B; 07-31-2018 at 10:05 PM.
Also this is all about choosing the correct device
My second sixpence worth.
Last edited by Paul B; 07-30-2018 at 11:20 PM.
FHR are not mandatory in "most OECD" nations Paul. Not in the UK either in many catergories.
However, having been in discussion with the Oval Racing and drag racing organisations this week in the UK (neither of whom mandate FHR!) I am tempted to express an alternate viewpoint.
If you are happy to spend thousands on an engine build, or a paint job, why not hundreds on the most expensive single component in the car, the driver? A month off work will cost more than an engine build, a year a whole lot more than the whole car.
A release from FIA in February means that new 5 belt harnesses will not be legal to sell from Feb 2018, yes months ago. 6 point is now the accepted standard. The whole release is available if anyone wants it posted.
Fair point Rhys about the relative costs, but this applies to 2K Cup cars, which is very much an entry level class, where they haven't spent mega dollars on the car.
In fact, for many, the cost of the suit, helmet, overalls, underwear extinguisher etc., probably cost way more than the car.
Probably THE most dangerous aspect of motor racing is actually driving to the venue on our roads.
As you know I am at the very "budget" end of the sport on the odd occasion I get/got to participate. I totally understand the costs of the personal gear, and I abhor the constantly moving targets. Many distributors and manufacturers (you know this very well Ray) endeavour to provide quality safety gear at the very best price they can, or at least a range to suit.
Having a friend who owns a car in 2K, I was made aware very early that while the 2K purchase price is well controlled, there are so many ways that money, and plenty of it, is spent after the purchase. Examples are dyno time, new tyres which are faster than another variety, new paint job, panel beating, signwriting and a whole raft of others. The view I was expressing, which was given by someone I was speaking to still stacks up I think. Spend on the personal safety before some of those others.
In no way do I support the idea of pushing a cost to participants with such a short time frame, especially some of the things which have been pushed on to participants in NZ which are much higher than even FIA standard requirements. Most are still doing some level of budgeting, even if it is sketchy and to bring in unforeseen costs with such a short lead time is inexcusable.
I do wonder if ALL of the sellers of the FHR were warned so they have stock in hand to comply, if so, why not the competitors? If not, is it a selected supplier, which is even worse. Of course the affluent would just get their needs from someone, or somewhere else, although they probably knew this was coming.
The other issues, extinguisher while refuelling, hazmat etc have been around as a need for a long time, just not enforced. Perhaps refuelling should only be done in specified places, rather than where there are thousands of $ worth of other things around. I was shocked to see that it was allowed in pit garages with a whole load of other things going on nearby, electric tools being used etc etc.
Personally I’m not concerned about the new requirements as I rather like to improve my chances on the track. And I understand that we can no longer live in an age where people can not be responsible for themselves.
However I’m a little confused reading HD’s “track torque” email stating FHR’s are mandatory but if you haven’t got one HD will hire you a foam neck brace. So does that mean Hampton Downs foam neck braces are allowed??
I believe if you have a 4 point or more seatbelt you must run a Hans or similar, and you must have a foam collar if you have lap/diagonal belt setup.
Last edited by Reeceracer; 08-02-2018 at 07:39 AM.
Limezed- foam neck collar for lap and diagonal belts only .
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