Good question, perhaps not the original nose! I understood it to mean the one in post 34 of the other thread, Sitting in someones Workshop.
Good question, perhaps not the original nose! I understood it to mean the one in post 34 of the other thread, Sitting in someones Workshop.
The car #30 in post #17 is the Stanton Cropduster with the Gipsy Major aero engine.
As far as the original nose of the GeeCeeEss goes, the earliest one is in the photo on the "Workshop" thread (In post #34 as pointed out). I've reproduced that photo here :
In this photo the car has an aero screen which was soon replaced with a larger more wrap-round screen. George tried many different nose and radiator combinations primarily to try and combat overheating. The car always overheated and still does.
The last grill was lost when it was stolen at a party but George had kept one of the grills as a memento when he sold the GeeCeeEss (as reported in "Sports Car World" September 1968 and the "Auckland Star" 13 July 1963). I understand that it this grill that was eventually reunited with the car and is on it now.
Here is an interesting letter about George by Dick Messenger :
Thanks Roger. Did the car overheat with the Hemi as well? That early nose is certainly the best looking, though also the narrowest, so I can understand why the nose was continuously modified with ever wider radiator openings. Do you know the origins of the grill? Was this something George made (or had made) for this car, or was it a speedway grill? Its quite intricate. Would you happen to know what the badges on the grill are?
These old photos are as interesting for the cars in the background. Parked next to the GeeCeeEss is a '32 Ford Roadster, a very desirable car now, and one that would easily fetch 80K is good condition.
I understand it overheated with all the engines George tried. With the grill I'm not sure but I presume it was something made for George. I don't think it came from the speedway midget as Tom Sheehan said only the tail came from the speedway car. As far as I know there were no badges remaining.Originally Posted by Steve Holmes
Here is a photo of the GeeCeeEss with no grill and a big radiator to try and deal with overheating.
The 1968 Sports Car World article - hope its readable.
Thanks Woody - it sure has changed from what I remember. It would be all too neat and tidy for George. George's garage spilled out onto the road and I recollect seeing a car parked with one side on the footpath and the other side on the road with what I assumed to be George lying underneath it in the gutter - I suppose it saved jacking it up.
Here are some photos of the GeeCeeEss as it is today. Bruce's query regarding the hook under the dash to hold it in gear - its still there but not fitted in these overhaul photos.
Great photos Roger. And a real neat thread. I love that you've maintained the cars character, warts and all. It just wouldn't look right beautifully restored with everything straightened out and perfected. Perfection can be bought. Character can't.
For those who missed Trevors questions in another thread about the GeeCeeEss, as answered by Roger above, here they are: "I hope it still has two authentic features which assisted greatly with its successes, i.e. a piece of wires on the dash/scuttle to fasten the gear lever into second and strings on each spark plug tying on the lead. George's efforts looked rough as, but a good look revealed a lot of careful detailed preparation".
Another "warts and all" car is the A40 Special. This was built by my great uncle Des Herrick in 1947 as a speedway car but converted into a circuit car in 1950 by Ralph Watson (Lycoming Special fame). It was rebuilt in 1956 by a young Bruce McLaren after a major prang in a Wellington hillclimb and was Chris Amon's first race car in 1959. I got it back into family ownership about 6 years ago. Here is Chris in it at the Festival at Hampton Downs - first time he had driven it for over 50 years.
Steve,
George’s character was not easy to penetrate, but I became aware of the inside man as a result of my wife at the time, doing his lady partner’s hair. My wife worked part time hairdressing from home. As a result I was able to talk to George on a personal level.
Quite contrary to the image he presented while in well worn overalls, George was a good business man, had very sound engineering common sense and was a gentleman. However he certainly did not suffer fools gladly and was not one for idle conversation. I for one have never heard anyone speak badly of him and I include those closely associated with him in the pre-war period. Pity that very little about those days was recorded.
I gleaned a lot about George from Merv Hardy and Gerry Matherson, when talking to them in the very late forties. Prior to that I was cycle racing and the cycling clubs dealt with George over using western Springs Speedway as a venue. He treated the clubs very fairly and when another promoter took over things went bad.
Likewise the GCS had more to it from a technical point of view than is perhaps obvious, and I will come back to that in another post.
Meantime the restored car has another vital detail missing.The springs, particularly the rear, should be very tightly bound with shrunk on binder twine as a means of dampening. This was I time honoured and effective device from way back and George was aware that it worked.
At this point in time, the old war horse's ex domestic car Ford V engine could give no more in the way of horsepower and the very expensive specially race engineered Alfa power plant naturally had it beaten, but only just and in a straight line.
As good as George was in the GeeCeeEss - here he is about to be caught and passed by Ron Roycroft in the Alfa.
Look closely at the two cars and consider each in respect of, weight distribution and centre of gravity. Nothing wrong with the GCS, are but the Alfa has independent front suspension some will point out, as well as a fancy rear drive set up. I will argue that that the Dubonnet suspension was an awful design in every way and any reduction in unsprung weight afforded by the complicated divided rear drive set up was certainly debatable. The arrangement was also claimed to provide a lower seating position for the driver, the photo also renders this debatable.
George imported an Allard J2 based on the reputation the car gained in hill climb events in the UK. He was quite focussed on hill climbs and reckoned the Allard would be the bees knees and what is more it had the sort of power plant he understood. He told me of his disappointment and how badly it handled when compared with the old GCS. George was not one to bad mouth anyone, however he made it clear that he did not think very highly of the Allard divided axle front suspension.
The GCS was a very well conceived design costing damned all and it had no vices and could always be driven on the absolute limit. This was so often demonstrated in hill climbs and often on a circuit, but here George always wisely had the need to finish in mind.
Crude, yes. Badly engineered, no. Cheap, yes. Uncouth, debatably. Nasty, no. Pedigree, not likely. But what a great old bastard it was and is. Let us give George and the old GCS full marks. The GCS was a truly successful, genuine Kiwi special and carries top marks in all respects. Hooooooooray.
P.S. Again check the photo and note the quite straight arm driving position adopted by George and the cramped wheel- in-chest attitude within the Alfa.
Sincerely, Trevor.
Good to see you here with first-hand observations such as these, Trevor
I look forward to many more!
i got some parts of him yrs ago 1961 he had a place top newton rd. the story i liked best was when he took up speedbots i believe he couldent swim but he had a lifejacket and back in the 50s the Sandspit at Waiuku held races on nearly every hightide up to 50 boats would turn up even Redhead one day though he stayed out in the deep ,the time georges boat sank ,he was bobing around with a lot of mice as they had a nest in the boat a true story i believe
That is an excellent post Trevor, and perfectly described. Did George ever consider pulling the Cadillac motor from the Allard and putting it in the GCS?At this point in time, the old war horse's ex domestic car Ford V engine could give no more in the way of horsepower and the very expensive specially race engineered Alfa power plant naturally had it beaten, but only just and in a straight line.
Look closely at the two cars and consider each in respect of, weight distribution and centre of gravity. Nothing wrong with the GCS, are but the Alfa has independent front suspension some will point out, as well as a fancy rear drive set up. I will argue that that the Dubonnet suspension was an awful design in every way and any reduction in unsprung weight afforded by the complicated divided rear drive set up was certainly debatable. The arrangement was also claimed to provide a lower seating position for the driver, the photo also renders this debatable.
George imported an Allard J2 based on the reputation the car gained in hill climb events in the UK. He was quite focussed on hill climbs and reckoned the Allard would be the bees knees and what is more it had the sort of power plant he understood. He told me of his disappointment and how badly it handled when compared with the old GCS. George was not one to bad mouth anyone, however he made it clear that he did not think very highly of the Allard divided axle front suspension.
The GCS was a very well conceived design costing damned all and it had no vices and could always be driven on the absolute limit. This was so often demonstrated in hill climbs and often on a circuit, but here George always wisely had the need to finish in mind.
Crude, yes. Badly engineered, no. Cheap, yes. Uncouth, debatably. Nasty, no. Pedigree, not likely. But what a great old bastard it was and is. Let us give George and the old GCS full marks. The GCS was a truly successful, genuine Kiwi special and carries top marks in all respects. Hooooooooray.
P.S. Again check the photo and note the quite straight arm driving position adopted by George and the cramped wheel- in-chest attitude within the Alfa.
Sincerely, Trevor.
According to my nearly finished research on Ardun engines in NZ, the Allard is where the Ardun came from, so I assume the Caddilac was a replacement engine fairly early in its life.
Thanks Steve,
What I report is based on memory and many passing years are involved. Therefore I remain open to correction, but then only on the basis of solid evidence.
I have no recollection of George being associated with a Caddilac engine, either in regard to the Alard or the GCS. As far as I am aware the Alard came with the factory option of a Ford V8 fitted with Ardun heads.
As I recall it, Chrysler came out with the first domestic V8 with an overhead valve arrangement and George somehow imported one of these engines for the GTS immediately they became available. It is interesting that at the time overseas funds and an import license would have been required. I think he used this engine for the 1954 Ardmore NZIGP where it subsided during practice, with I believe bearing problems. One way or another the Chrysler never proved a real success. In order to fit the Chrysler it was necessary to cut away part of the chassis rails, which at the time did not impress the scrutinisers. When I last saw the car the rails had been restored. P.S. The solid mounting of the engine constitutes major stiffening in respect of the front end of the simple ladder frame.
Likewise I can not remember the Ardun heads bringing George any real joy. As I see it the GCS became uncompetitive along with the flat head Ford V8 engine, i.e. the car was involved with the conclusion of a distinct era within NZ motor sport.
I have always been intrigued with the overheating problems which George appears to have experienced. Was he not aware that the dual water pumps required quietening when high RPM became constant? He was not one to openly discuss technicalities in respect of his cars. Having attended to the water pumps, I ran a Ford V8 in all sorts of competition without the need for even a radiator fan.
Cheers, Trevor.
Last edited by Trevor Sheffield; 09-13-2011 at 09:39 AM. Reason: P.S. Added
Hi Trevor,
Could you please elaborate by what you mean with "Was he not aware that the dual water pumps required quietening when high RPM became constant? He was not one to openly discuss technicalities in respect of his cars. Having attended to the water pumps, I ran a Ford V8 in all sorts of competition without the need for even a radiator fan". The GeeCeeEss still overheats so what you are talking about could be a remedy but I don't quite understand what modification to the water pump is required.
Cheers
Roger
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