No problem, just let me know which one & I'll send them a HiRes version.Originally Posted by Oldfart
No problem, just let me know which one & I'll send them a HiRes version.
Hi, great ideas. Love the basic concept, I am sure it could be made into something workable. Rules have to be enforced strictly. Just a thought why not make the adge of the driver plus the car is more than 100. A 1950 car would have a driver who must be over 39, a 1940
car the driver would be 29 or over. Who knows we could use our Austin A105 to tow our serious race car to the track, race them both and then hitch hike home. Done that before. If you used your tow car as a race car it would have to be worth an extra place or two up the grid.
Boy, you guys, this has the potential to be really interesting! A 39 Ford coupe would fit right in.
OK Steve, your entry number is???
Remember the 4.00 by 16 crossply tyres?
Age + car is too young! 62 for me + 55 car = 117?
Or is a 1955 car 57 + my 62?
Last edited by Oldfart; 09-19-2011 at 08:27 AM.
Ha beat you. My car is 48 years old plus my age of 70 =118. And I'm not competitive! Don't think that sport/ racing cars would be accepted though.
If we are talking about the car which has your site name, it's barely pre 61?? I took photos of the car at the initial Baypark meeting emerging from the cement dust clouds. I think the "guidelines" address the type of cars! And I am pretty sure I spent a bit of time crawling over your car at the 2010 Roycroft meeting. Then I may be reading too much into names!
I've been discussing this idea with a number of people since Oldfart rang me and told of his idea. Almost everyone has had the same response of "what a great idea, but now you've ruined the next few days while I think of cars". I reckon this will be a great step in increasing field numbers, and now HAVE to find a car. Please don't put the 100 year car+driver in, I don't think a pre 45 car would be too race ready without WAAAAAAAAAAAAYY too much work.
Might have a winner here I mentioned the idea to a couple of " older " people today ,they think its a great concept and next question they asked me is what do I use
I think the average 29 year old would throw all the toys out of the cot if you suggested that he drive/race a 71 year old car, he wouldnt be able to find the 'press enter to start' button...... No dont need them, keep it at 50 or over for the driver, when they see how much fun your having they might start to grow up quicker!!
Now I just happen to know who Peril is, and he is not too far away from the 29 years you mention. He is more often known for those funny engines they claim are 1200cc and make a "crap, crap, crap" noise! Now if he is enthusiastic, there is hope for the next generation! Then again my 21 year old son wanted to get a car too, but he might have to wait a wee while before he comes hom from a rather interesting job in thee UK designing Triumphs. Not all the young guys are only capable of driving PS3!
Last edited by Oldfart; 09-19-2011 at 07:40 PM.
Oldfart, have you come up with a name for your class yet?
Surely...."Old Farts Racing' !!!!!!Not something boring like.... 'pre 61'. Have been raking my brains trying to think of a suitable machine and I keep coming back to BMC. As peril787b says, some of these potential 'race cars' are going to need massive amounts of work to get them competitive,or even safe, and at what cost. All those old 50's cars are very heavy, so I want to know how much lightening are we going to be able to do. Probably the most sensible would be an A40 Farina, but apparently we cant bore out to 1275cc, although I cant see why not, as the technology was there in the late 50's. Better still would be an A95 or A105 as these motors can be made to give serious HP, also have the option of over-drive, and a lot of other advantages compared to say Bobs choice of Borgward.....not the least a better spares availability. Other than that we are going to have to resort to super-charging with all it's attendant problems. I like Beowulfs idea of towing your 'real' race car to the circuit with the pre61, and racing both....marvellous. Tough luck if they both come to grief. Clearly this whole idea has got a lot of people thinking ,so I'm sure something will come of it....we just need some secure guidelines, no, more than guidelines, RULES.
I do want you all to remember that these will be primarily used at VINTAGE CLUB EVENTS, at least that is where the initial focus will be.
I guess there is a huge potential for the "mainstream" events to take them on board too.
In the UK they are known as "Oldies but Goldies" and run with the masters series.
Amco, in regard the Farina, it needs to be a Mark 1 with the shorter wheelbase as the Mk 2 was post 60. Lightening is within the same basic rule, what could and would have been done in the period. Personally I would be very disappointed to see bolted on perspex and portholes. If the windows appeared to be in the original tracks and the drivers' window opened as originally manufactured then that is OK.
Also remember in VCC there are NO PRIZES so running away in the front will have no benefit. If "all those old 50's cars are heavy" what is the problem? Every car has the same disadvantage? You don't HAVE to spend lots of money, sometimes that is just the personal ego making a person do it. If you are at the tail end battling with 4 others you probably have just as much fun (probably a lot more) than someone who is at the front running away with no-one else to play with?
I agree with the need for rules, I put the "guidelines" out for discussion, so where are the suggestions? Easy to pick holes, harder to offer thoughts??
This Borgward thing worries me Bob. If they are as good as you say, and I dont doubt your word, cos you know what you are talking about, why did they just fizzle out so quickly in NZ. Funnily enough I have just managed to sell the MG TF1500 that I mentioned in another thread. It was left-hand drive and I had given up trying to sell it in NZ. I had been corresponding with a German guy about it, and this last weekend he came here on business, and after inspecting the car bought it on the spot. The interesting thing was that he owned....a Borgward Isabella Coupe, so remembering Bobs penchant for these things asked him a few leading questions as to the suitability or not of racing a Borgward. I think he was rather taken aback that someone would want to do such an appalling thing to such a fine classic car, so I'm no further ahead. He says there is a reasonable spares supply in Germany and some repro stuff and theoretically would be possible to get spares here, even though car production stopped in the early 60's, I think. Is a bit like Paul Radisich racing that dreadful Russian thing at Goodwood...a Zil was it......looked a bit like a 50's Studebaker. It went OK with Paul behind the wheel ,as you would expect, but the A105 still beat it into a cocked hat. Cant see any point in competing with something that hasn't got a chance of winning, even with a sympathetic handicapper. And dont tell me that race car drivers dont want to win....even us old fogeys enjoy a win or two, or we would stay at home and do our knitting.!!!!!!
Point taken, Oldfart, but this was your 'baby' so I think is up to you to draft some rules, and I'm sure there will lively discussion. Dont know whether you should model this class on something already happening in the UK but would probably be a start. This will be motor-RACING, not Classic Trialing so everyone will be thinking performance.....wont they? When I raced the MG 1100 in Classic racing in 1987, I got sick and tired of coming last in every race with just about everyone lapping me, and in the end just gave it away. Yes I had some 'dicing' with back-markers but I would sooner have been nearer the pointy end of the field.
Old Fart, cripes he could be anyone with a moniker like that!!, better not be Dave Slater..that would ruin my day...
Rules, I hate that term, guidelines, why dont you start with a post on what you would like, then we can quote your post & add our individual thoughts within that post, preferably by using a different colour on the text we type in on each topic.
Theres some!!
Actually, there are no 'prizes' in ANY NZ motorsport that I can think of, certainly not monetary ones. Have been 'connected' to NZ V8's for some years now and the boys sometimes get a bottle of 'Chardon' for their efforts, or a chocolate fish!! And Jac Mac, good idea....once a few things are down on paper then the discussions will start. We seem to be just tossing it around at the moment to gauge the interest, and there seems to be no lack of that, and we can move forward from the 'guidelines' page. Too much WRC to concentrate on anything else!! And Jac Mac....dont think it is DS....he is otherwise engaged, I think. So rest easy.
Jacmac and Amco, go back to post #18. There are the initial thoughts for discussion! I am happy for you to add thoughts, however it is not solely my baby. The Waitemata branch of VCC has already had input. They will be run under VCC at their meetings (given sufficient cars) need to have VIC (vehicle Identity Card) no cost, need to have VCC race licence $35 odd for 3 years, these are set in stone. It would need discussion with Motorsport to comply with some of their rules, although there are some combined meetings where MS accept VCC cars. Personally I can't be bothered with some of Motorport requirements and particularly costs.
Totally agree about gearbox, same number of ratios as original, later box is Ok (in my opinion). A period car should reflect the period, WITH ALL ITS' COMPONENTS, any later major component of the core 5 (engine, body, chassis, transmission, suspension) makes the whole unit of the later period. There are some grounds, I believe to discuss this, electronic ignition is a case in point, I believe that if it looks like points and coil that's OK who wants a fleet of cars with burnt out points littering the circuit? An event I have competed in for the last number of years now has "classic" cars which are a body shell with late model components. They ain't classics.
Jacmac, last time I looked a "vette was not a saloon car! Neither is a Tbird is it? Fine line there, how did Ford market the aircraft carrier?
I don't even know who Dave Slater is! It sure ain't me. Amco I know, Jacmac no idea.
Lets keep this fun, that's what it's designed for.
Last edited by Oldfart; 09-20-2011 at 06:20 AM.
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