Mike Barney - ex Cooper and McLaren mechanic - wondered if the GLHs were in fact cars he designed and built.
Welcome Russell - your role as part of NZ FF history proceeds you.
Mike Barney - ex Cooper and McLaren mechanic - wondered if the GLHs were in fact cars he designed and built.
Welcome Russell - your role as part of NZ FF history proceeds you.
G = Gerry Hones, L = Lloyd Owen, H = Hugh OwenOriginally Posted by Michael Clark
The cars were built in Blenheim
Carl,
Certainly both Hugh's and Lloyd's were built in Blenheim and until recently I though Paul Dold's one as well. At different times you and I both spent some time in the very shed they were built in!
Paul, however now tells a different story about the history of his car. Essentially almost all FFs of the era can trace at least some of their DNA to Ron T's brilliant Brabham BT21, just as the '73 Ray evolved from the WDF2/3Pallisers, the Palliser (and Jonny Johnson's cars etc.etc) basically used BT21 geometry and chassis layout, so claiming exclusive "design" credit probably goes tooo far. When I started with our first Palliser WDF2, Jonny Johnson supplied me a set of both front and rear wishbones straight off his jigs, they were identical in all respects.
However, certainly major items such as the bodywork, rear uprights etc are common to of all the GLH's and I thought the chassis too until talking to Paul recently. You may need to Ghost write for Hugh or Lloyd to set the record straight.
Gerry Hones was the works manager at Brabham when Hugh & Lloyd were working there. and yes there was a fair bit of Rons work copied into quite a few cars of the time. When the boys are down south for the TRS race meeting at Timaru I am going to try and get them to sit down so we can record some of the historical facts rather than have an absolute ball retelling some of the stories of the past.
We still get quite a few laughs out of the Norm Smith and the highway of fire story and the time that they had quite a few of the North Islanders on the free Friday test day at Levels circulating the track in the wrong direction. We were a bit of a home base for a number of the northerners and when they came back to our workshop mid to late morning telling me that they had the circuit all worked out and then told me what and where they were doing things I did think that they were certainly doing things that I had never done.. All it had taken was for one of the boys to pass the comment to a leading mechanic of the time that if he knew so much then he should have known the correct direction that the circuit ran. This mechanic then stopped his driver and asked him if he was sure of the direction of travel and after a bit of discussion with a couple of others who were testing at the time they all turned around and ran the wrong way around the place and did get a great chassis set up. Didn't do them much good in the 10 minute qualifying next day though
The back shed, it sure could tell some stories eh Howard.
I recall booking in at The Golden Sands motor camp at Mt.Maunganui one year and the first thing the manager asked after seeing the car on the trailer was: "You're not friends of the Owen Bros, are you?" I assured him that I'd never heard of them, to which he replied: "Okay, you can stay but behave while you're here". Later the same night we arrived back to find the gates had been shut - no problem! my old mate Mac McDowell just drove his Valiant, straight through them. Can't remember where we spent the following night.
DAD GET AN IPHONE !! this way you can keep up with things whilst away !
The Mike Taylor you refer to is probably Mike "Fulmar " Taylor he was a well known FF1600 and 2000 racer here in the 70's and 80's he set up Fulmar Cornock Services ( FCS) with Alan Cornock who was Royale race cars when the Royale thing died off Alan had the contract to assemble the reynard 1600 2 litre cars from Adrian
Now FCS is Mygale UK agent just with alan i think mike has pulled out had other business interests his son Mark around 10 years ago was racing in Britsh f3
Ray cars is 45 mins up the road from me Gavin the son runs it now Bert died a year or so ago
Ray cars where busy with the newer Duratec FFord but have many customers who have converted 02-09 zebec or duratec cars to kent spec
I had a small mod to a Mondiale 84 FFord chassis done by them this year and the fabby is an old Ray employee from yester year who has come back to the roost but i cannot recall his name.
I just sold a Ray 94 kent car for a customer but I have 1 92 Ray kent car for sale £7k plus my Mondiale 84 semi restored project £3750 ( no box or motor) and a neat Crossle 32F built with many new parts onto a bare chassis £6k
all of these would fit neatly into a 20 ft container ( circa £2k ish) and with the kiwi peso around $2.10 to the pom £ and you now have no import tariffs at 30-50% anymore i expect a stampede !!
Last edited by driftwood; 01-01-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Yes I know Im behind you guys, i like warm beer and it rains a lot here too.
Have just come across this website about Valour cars and thier involvement in FF in NZ.
http://valourff.blogspot.com/
Hi, Bob Johnston here, I still have the last Formula Ford built in my shed (which was number 9). My memory is still good but computer skills are limited! Look forward to hearing about the good old days - email me at jen.bel@xtra.co.nz if you want to get in touch. I have a few spares etc to sell
Grant Walker getting a little too close to Brett Riley
What happened to the Tiga FF that Dave Bull drove at Manfeild in the 70's?
A big thanks to Jamie Aislabie for solving a problem with the Van Diemen dry sump saga. How could the experts have got it so wrong for so long. Does your knowledge have no limits Jamie, and all this via the phone? Shades of Smokey Yunick for those of that era.
Dave McKinney, I know you don't sleep and this is not a who/what/where but merely to clear up a statement I made to to you re G.P.Mc and Dr. Langley that may have cited the wrong Dr. Your memory is not as suspect as you make out.
To all: Does Marty Olsen still have the Bowkett Skyline if not where did it go?
Last edited by ElCoyote; 05-18-2012 at 07:53 AM.
I'm sorry if I'm belaboring the point, but I'm a newbie from the U.S. & I took over the Palliser-Winkelmann Registry a few months ago & I'm trying to update its listings. I invite anybody to correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I understand:
WDF2/34 & WDF2/35 are currently owned by Mr. Russ Cunningham
WDF3/4 was owned by Nev Bailey & I currently have it with Vic Clarke. It carries a non-stock nose & cowling.
I would be interested in any photos, details, Arch Motor numbers, etc. that any of the members might have on Palliser Winkelmanns that are in New Zealand. Also, please visit the site, www.pallisercars.com, so I can get some input, good or bad from you. My email address can be found on the site.
Thanks
Welcome, Layabout,
You are correct, Vic Clarke now owns the WDF3, chassis No.4. Only three Pallisers made it to these shores and I recall many years back informing the registry of these cars. Unfortunately, I got busy/lost touch/other excuses---but nice to know the registry is still going.
Regards,
Russ Cunningham
Ah, I had forgotten about this thread.
I think it could be a good place to reiterate part of something I posted on “The State of NZ Motorsport” thread. Probably mainly of interest to SI guys, and bearing in mind the historic nature of this site, of particular interest could be the Class 3 division in the Ace Hire South Island Formula Ford Championship
There is an opportunity for competitive racing with other Class 3 cars, a Class 3 trophy to race for, and money! In that respect all cars will pick up prize money based on their points tally. Have highlighted in bold, items of relevance to historic cars……
To be eligible to run in the Ace Hire South Island Formula Ford Championship and pick up the prize money, you need to belong to the SIFF Club, annual membership $75 and register for the Championship, registration fee $50 for the season. Not too onerous one would think……
For club membership and Championship registration contact :-
South Island Formula Ford Club
Ian Bisman
26 Milesbrook Close
Rangiora
Ph 03 3106441
i.biz@xtra.co.nz
At this point it might be worth elaborating on the classes. There is overall of course, and competitors are fighting for $4000 prize money. $1500 for 1st down to $50 for 10th.
SIFF has also historically had the following four Classes and these classes will collectively share the other $6000 prize money based on points gained.
Class 1 is for Hewland LD 200 trans cars from 1989
Class 2 is for Hewland Mk type trans 1984 – 1989
Class 3 is cars up to 1984
Class pre-93 aligns with the Tier 1 National Class 2
As can be seen, early Class 1 and all Class 2 & 3 cars are eligible also for Class pre-93 points so they get 2 bites at the cherry. Class 1 cars of course should get their second bite from the overall prize money stakes. Pretty equitable we think rewarding the overall winner well and the guys in the older cars will do OK too.
A couple of examples based on last years results. Last years Class 1 and overall winner would have received $1986. The Class 2 winner who was also 4th overall and 2nd pre-93 would have received $1147. The Class 3 winner $770. At the other end of the results, the guy in a Class 2 car who finished last overall and only did two rounds would have taken home $301.
It is interesting to note that last year there was only one Class 3 car. There are a heap of points and hence money to be picked up by anyone choosing to run in Class 3, the same, to a slightly lesser extent, applies to Class 2.
Generally we think the prize money structure gives a little bit for everyone and rewards well those that really put in the effort. Now we just need to get them out there….
First round is Levels Nov 11, then Dec 1 & 2 a double round at Teretonga one on the Sat one on the Sun, then Dec 15 Ruapuna.
The Tier 1 national championship is down this way in Jan so the SIFF rounds are the perfect opportunity for serious Tier 1 competitors to bring their cars down early to get some competitive seat time in the month/s immediately prior.
The final two AHSIFF Championship rounds are at Levels and Ruapuna in March.
So anyone who knows someone with a FF, give them a bit of encouragement to get it out there. Six weeks to the first round, plenty of time to polish the wheels!
Thank you for the information. I'm trying to tie photos of as many cars as possible to the chassis number on the registry. Do you have any photos of either car that you can send me? I don't care if they are current or "of the day'. Also, if you have the Arch Motor numbers that would be great as well.
Thank you
Locke
Tomorrow at Pukekohe: I see a NZ built Valour is on the entry list. I understand Chris Havill ran it at the Taupo picnic meeting last December which I missed.
On the list of NZ built FFs of that era we have the GLHs, the Cuda, Cheetahs, Keram, Beggs, Valours, the Kea I guess. It occurs to me that in that highly competitive 1974/75 FF Championship, of the top 3 drivers (Grant Walker, Brett Riley and Howard Wood), two were in NZ built cars - and the last named in a self-built (well in conjunction with his brother) car.
Both Cheetahs survive, as do all four Begg FFs (in fact the second car that was converted to FF does as well), we have Paul Dold's GLH normally racing with us as well as the Keram - and now a Valour. We know where the Cuda is but how far off being a runner it is I have no idea while I think Phil Foulkes knows where his old Kea is - and of course Phil has the Trident - a Kim Crocker adapted Palliser.
Sadly neither the Keram or Valour made it yesterday but HW also reminded me about the Johnsons - including the Hustler of the famous Norm Smith...
... or even Johnstons
Enjoyed this topic but lack of forum skills kind of put paid to replying till now.
Carlos asked where Stone/Finch Cuda is....its in my workshop. The discussion re valours is interesting. I owned a Titan Mk6 that I bought damaged. We borrowed the valour jig from Dennis Martin to repair the chassis ( slightly different in frt floor profile )The resultant car was damaged in a tumble at BayPark ( would love to get original photos sequenced in NZ Herald and Autosport ), flipped off a lotus, over Malcolm Webbs van Diemen and landed on top of Lou Vandermeer, that car was ex Eric Morgan, sold as parts to Larry Mulholland. Fond memories of Formula Ford. Got involved early on with Gilbey's Gin sponsored Ex Pellow Brabham ( converted from National Formula car ) This car now resident at John Wigstons workshop. Was the technical officer for the formula , then T/O for MSNZ . One year we ( Bob McMurray alongside ) went to South Is spannering on Mark Scott ( ANZ Elden, CMR engine ) and Robin Hoskings ( Cheetah). Got involved in the world debut of international superstar Robin De MauMau in Malcolms VD. Alas , Robin had navigational problems at Timaru and sadly had to have a career change. What went on tour, stayed on tour. Will watch this topic with interest as there was good racing, great camaraderie, and some great times in this class. Shame the politics and technical rules can't be sorted to get the class thriving again
So where the hell is our 'Can do' attitude these days. It all seems to be 'Can't do' now.
Does anyone else get sick to death of all the whinging people on TV who are absolutely shocked that the world can't see things their way. There used to be a saying about whinging Poms but I will bet that Kiwi's would outdo the Poms any day with their hands tied behind their backs. End of whinge.
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