Never noticed you trying to win back then Gentleman Jim, always good to follow as you knew the "Shortest" way around.
Can not wait to see this Jaguar, if it is anything like Dave built before it will be a darling.
PS will catch up soon.
Never noticed you trying to win back then Gentleman Jim, always good to follow as you knew the "Shortest" way around.
Can not wait to see this Jaguar, if it is anything like Dave built before it will be a darling.
PS will catch up soon.
What do you mean Jim, that you 'can't spell anymore',!!!! You never could spell. Your wonderful secretary Steph used to fill in all the JDC forms for you!!!! But hey, who cares. You are a true enthusiast from way back, and remembers how things used to be. But I'm afraid we have moved on old son, and whether we like it or not, that's the way it is. Spilling the beans about how those old race-cars were built might end us up in court... and don't start Dave on that one.. By the way, regarding that midday meal, a portion the size of a closed fist is all that is allowed, otherwise all that sweating at Les Mills will be for nought.
Sorry Amco you will have to imagine my reply but sweating and court reminds me of the days gone by when I outplayed you on the sqaushcourt,winning there was important and Rod we had no hope with Algee and Hux but was great days, though cant remember if I turned my car around to see who was behind!!
Hi to all, I have been biting my bottom lip at some of the comments and opinions aired on this forum for some time, but can contain myself no longer. First of all I like to race cars not history, it makes no difference to me who last farted in the seat. It makes no difference to the way the car looks, sounds and more importantly what its like to drive. The second best car I have built after the present Mk2 was a Mk1 BDA Escort for Gray Mathias. We started with a 1300 stripped, sand blasted, replaced sills, front guards, welded on steel flares and fabricated the Watts linkage and trailing arms. Built a weld on front cross member with the rack and bottom arm mounts inside it like the Fahey car. We imported the proper AP alloy 4 piston calipers and 13 '' Minilight wheels and mounted F2 cross ply tyres just like in the day. We built a 1700 BDA with Lucas injection and F1 cams, the bonnet was flat black and it really looked and sounded the part. Now from some of your comments this car should not be allowed to race, at least it left a Ford factory somewhere unlike some of the cars that were built in the day from a body shell supplied new from Ford, no chassis number you know. You talk of almost seeing the ghosts of drivers past well if you do they are probably lost souls. The UK driver of Cooper Bristols that came here in the 80s with copy of the Wharton car had a real one at home but it was too valuable to race so built a copy of that too and left the real one tucked nice and cosy at home. I have it from someone that knows that the practise is common . If you have a multi million dollar race car and you can have an identical one built for multi hundred thousand dollars which one would you race. Google Dunford Jaguar and order up an FIA legal copy! If you saw Masten Gregory lurking round Leuch;s 341 SG Lister he was lost, the car was a total fake which Paul admitted to me whilst he was in his cups, truth serum some would say. I dont think
MSNZ should have any part in authenticating old racing cars, one day they will have the pants sued of them for authenticating a fake. To me a car is only a fake if someone claims it is something it is not. and if it used to sell the then it is fraud and illegal.
Last edited by Dave Silcock; 03-19-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Well said.
Yep, all makes sense, but Dave I don't know how to respond to that last post without enraging you more, but here goes. You say you like racing CARS not HISTORY. Well, no race car has a history, good or bad, until it is raced, including yours, even though you have a distinguished racing career here in NZ. Whether you like it or not, a car that has a history, especially a good history because it was successful, is worth something to most people; ie something worth having. Here I am thinking of cars that have passed through your hands...been built by you, modified by you, raced by you, are all worth something extra, simply because of your reputation, and who you are. FACT. I did say that your current project had no history YET, but this history, which you so dislike, will have started simply with the discussion on this forum. By your comments, you may not like that, although I can't see why not, and the MKII will continue to build it's history everytime it appears, and people in the know will take notice of it simply because of your association with it. At one point you say you are humbled by all the attention that your creations are getting, well, get used to it, as most people are happy when their efforts are recognised by others. As far as I know, no one on here has said you can't race the MKII in NZ, or that there isn't a class for it, but allowing MSNZ to decide that class is another matter. Dale Mathers has got a very successful class going with the HMC, and those that wish to race with his boys, abide by his rules, end of story. What I am trying to say here is that history is important, not to you maybe, but it is, and not only to the shysters who try to flog off cars as originals, when clearly they are not. But that's another topic altogether. Anyway, my original question to you was.....could you spare some of your valuable time and tell us a bit about this latest creation of yours......please! As to 341SG, there were always whispers about it's authenticity back in the late 80's when it was active. It had a very well patinated seat which fueled the originality claim. Then of course there was the dodgy warehouse fire where the car was stored, and partly or wholy destroyed, depending on who you believe........etc etc etc.
Without wishing to add fuel to the flames, attached picture and story may amuse.
I wonder if the Otahuhu CIB came to any conclusion about the fire.
Stu
Hey Stu, that's interesting. I raced at the Ardmore classic meeting in 1986 when this machine was also competing, so was not long afterwards that the 'unfortunate' fire took place.....may 87. I know there was a lot of talk about it at the time, but I didn't take a lot of notice. I wasn't very fond of Mr Leuch's driving style, which could best be described as 'cavalier'. !!!!!! I see there are some new/burnt Trimax mowers in the back-ground. I also see the the reporter said the cars were not insured, which seems very strange to me. I sure as hell would be insuring a Lister if I owned one; you never know when the 'bover boys' might pay you a visit!!!!!!! Dave, did you have any input into this car as one of your projects?
Hey oldtimer Ardmore classic was 1989
The 'destroyed' Connaught was sold to England shortly after the fire and rebuilt there. Apparently apart from the 'Dart' body it was pretty much all there. It was rebuilt with the streamliner bodywork that Paul sometimes used, and which wasn't damaged in the fire. The car hasn't raced since then, but it has recently changed hands and I'm told will return to the circuits (in the UK) this year
Hey, REAL oldtimer.......it must have been at Whenuapai then; but I thought the car he was driving at Whenuapai was the Aston Martin...DB5 I think. He did nearly take the control-tower out at one stage with a wild slide!!! God I hate being corrected by old fuddy-duddies. Yes, I have just looked it up....your right.....Whenuapai 86 TACCOC.....Ardmore 89 Shell Classic. Go back to your knitting!!!!
AMCO, pm sent
Oldfart, pm sent.
Is this this Lister and Conaught man :
Paul Duncan Leuch Obituary
Published in The New Zealand Herald on October 29, 2011
LEUCH, Paul Duncan. On September 24, 2011 in Austria, aged 79 years. Loved father of Joanna Newbigin (Havelock North, Hawkes Bay), Andrea Vautier and Stephanie...
We have strayed away a bit on this thread, but I'm sure Dave wont mind as it is a subject close to his heart. The Lister that we have been talking about was to my eyes the most gorgeous car, and I would have given anything to own it. Now Dave says it was a complete fake. Dave, do you mean it's provenance was fake....ie the number plate..341SG. This number did have a good history [there's that word again] in the UK, so how come it ended up on Pauls car. It's probably a long story, and I'm sure someone here knows....David maybe? I remember there was a staged 'race' at Puke between it and a 'modern' Ferrari.....just the two of them howling around the course, trying to prove, I dont know what! Cant remember who won, was a close thing I think. The Lister made up yards on the back straight but wasn't so good in the corners especially over the hill. So with a straight 6 and a V12 together the sound was magic.
Well Amco I don't think you quite got the guts of what I meant. I am amazed at the importance attached to my efforts. By any standards they were some what less than successful. I haven't got a trophy cabinet because I have never won one . I have never won or even had a placing in any championship. I won my first race in AL 6246 but I think that was it. I had agreat season in AR325 at Pukekohe the first year I raced there, won every production sports car race I entered and ran the car on the prize money! Imagine that today. I never ever got much above 5th place in the Mk2 and if so only if some one DNF ed. So lets take those three cars and consider why I think their history and what they are today are not linked. The first XK ceased to be the car I raced wheen the Bains returned it to standard, it became another car entirely when Brian Middlemass owned it. He fitted a 3.8 litre MK10 motor gearbox and overdrive to. It mattered not that you have to cut the only decent cross member an XK chassis has got to fit the overdrive or that the throttle was connected directly to the carbs so when it was opened the engined to the right and opened it some more! What a bitch of a thing it was and still is the last time I drove it. AR325 was built out of a very badly repaired right off, when the modified production sports car class was canned I had a valueless car with a broken crank and a split bore. What to do? a plot was hatched to put the good bits into an XK120 FHC. I was part way through this when a sailor just out of the navy decided he wanted it . As the job wore on he wanted more bits that were on it as raced. In the end he got the 3.4 8 to1 compression motor out of the coupe the modified head Webers and manifolds. I retained the Konis disc brakes and close ratio gearbox which was ex G Hallens HWM. And another one for the history buffs I fitted the 3.8 motor from Frank Radisch's Humber Jag which had come out of a written off 150S. So what the sailor got was a dangerous piece of crap. He then proceeded to wrap it round a power pole so hard that the chassis broke the sump off! It was written off again of course, but no he bought back from the insurance and repaired it him self at Bob Fielders panel shop. Please be aware the chap was a radio operator. It is a great pity the damn thing was not put out of its misery right there. Last I heard it had a MK 5 chassis fitted to it (its what Jaguar modified to use any way) and is still being rebuilt. I ask the question why bother? Unless I rebuild it as only I would know how its not going to be worth a pinch of poop. Well all I have time for now customers arriving. I'll deal with the other car later and try to find time to fill you in on the NEW MK2. Suffice to say it is the most impressive and beautiful car I have ever built by a very large margin.
Last edited by Dave Silcock; 03-20-2012 at 09:13 PM.
Thanks for all that Dave. Frankly I dont care what you won or didn't win, you managed to create a legend round yourself which has endured to this day, and whenever the name Jaguar pops up, it is your name that is invariably mentioned. And yes you are right, once a car has left your care, you cannot guarantee it's provenance. I believe you when you say that this latest project...[the last?] is the best by a long shot, and you wont care whether it wins races or not, it will be the joy of sitting behind the wheel and listening to that glorious howl. It has after all got 50 years of experience behind it so it better be good!! Looking forward to hearing more.
Hey replicar oldtimer I hate to be correct .but you seem to getting quite confused latley.but dont worry it will come write if you listen more,, Pauls Aston was a DB4 gt.A little story about Paul he had won some important hillclimb in Austria .had a badge on his Morgan.This day at puke we were having lunch sitting on the hill overlooking the club track when he asked me if I had the money what car would I have?Hell a D Type off course,or a Lister Or posibly a DB 4 GT .imagine my suprise when he turns up with these cars! To me of all the cars I have sat in Fosters D was made to suit me .the Lister was not anything like the D as with the windscreen rules in force.the screen was lowered down close to your knees . but in the D every thing was just great ,pedals gearlever .and to think it sat on Rileys yard for sale 1500 pounds, I bought a Buckler for 550 pounds on time payment at the same time..wages were around 12 pound a week a house was 1600 ,and Daves car is real good even if it goes bang{430bhp}unheard off a real car with Real muscle
Talking about having copies built because of the value of the original, I believe that one of the specialist companies in NZ recently built a copy of the 250 GTO which was worth several million, because the owner of the original, now worth about 20 million, still wanted to race a 250 GTO. In the same vein I have been told just recently that Roger Wills has had a replica March 701 Cosworth built in the UK to race as the original Amon car was too valuable and he wanted it kept in its current state, patina and all.Originally Posted by Dave Silcock
Jim, you of all people should know that I am the best listener in the world. I am just getting a little confused.....so many years, so many cars. Of course the D type was made for SHORT-arsed poms.....no adjustment anywhere. Give me a C type any day. DB4, DB5, they both looked pretty similar to my untrained eye, and I have never been an Aston fan....funny, me that is. No more long telephone calls from you please, I can't take all that you are saying in anymore. Do you think Lofty would have approved of Dave's 430 hp.....200mph down the Mulsanne straight, before those stupid chicanes were installed. Listening to videos of cars going down there in the old days was spine tingling. It sounds as if that obituary that RogerH mentioned, is of the Mr Leuch, if your info on an Austrian hillclimb is correct, which I sincerely hope it is....we dont want another 'OK Corral' episode here.
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