From having been at HD and Puke in recent times, I feel it's about time to let go of the nostalgia surrounding Puke. The Supertourers proved (to me at least) that HD , as a track is well capable of handling such cars, and the crowds would be well served. If the Supercars don't want to go there, I reckon it is their loss.
Of course it would be of financial benefit to HD, the spectators would be well served, and I believe the class would be a great show.
Yes, Oldfart, Pukekohe may well fade into nostalgic history, I hope not though. Facilities are not the be all of racing, unless you're talking about the ivory tower forms of racing like the Aussies V8s.
Cochrane's outburst as reported on Radio Sport last week revealed an arrogant contempt for HD and I suspect New Zealand. "HD is facing major challenges." Yes we have the RMA to stumble over every time someone tries to do anything new. But the "problem" with the Aussie V8s at HD is neither Cochrane's, nor Tony and Chris's problem. What AVESCO wants, is an event promotor who will step up and pay the huge fee, hopeful that they might be able to break even or even make a profit. IMHO it would be near impossible to break even with the demands in NZ's current climate and the HD directors are surely well aware of this.
As the Super Tourers apparently showed over the weekend, you don't have to import the Aussie circus to make a great show that the crowds will go and see. Maybe it's better at this point to look forward to a period where much of the motor racing buck isn't disappearing over the Tasman.
What a great crowd, but i actually found the SuperTourers boring!!! that was until the safety car then the complex of the race changed. But the cars themselves are soo quiet that the gearbox wine was louder than the exhaust note, this needs to change? or maybe im just old school?!! Central and Honda cup put on the best show, the noise of the "Central" cars sounded awesum!!! but all in all for $30 entry, half a tank of gas, a hotdog and coffey it was a great day out that i really enjoyed, no doupt the cheapest i've ever walked away from a race track in recent times, LOL
HD is no doupt the place to be
Dale Mathers
I was at that manfeild meeting where Tony Roberts had a drive in the Mclaren canam car,too weeks later i was in auckland and was at the Mclaren museum and tony came out of a room and walked passed me and i said hi ,and i told him i saw him drive the Big Mclaren at manfeild he said someone had to do it (laughing), he said come and have a look over the plans that he was drawing up for HD and i think no work had started on the track at that time ,how long back was that i was there for about an hour and a half we allso talked about robbie and the custaxie, now lets look at the great job he has done with HD a very nice looking track but to me its not a drivers track take levin that was a drivers track not all could drive it , the best was Graham McRac along with Baypark and Pukekohe allso the south island tracks I like Pukekohe because thats an all out Balls track i look forward to them putting money into it
I was at HD briefly on Saturday afternoon, and got there just in time to see to first 'race' of the much vaunted 'super-tourers'. RACE, in inverted comas, because as I suspected it was just a display of highspeed lappery. As Dale observed, the cars were very quiet.....a nice whine from the gearbox, but is going to take more than that to entice me back. There was a biggish crowd, however a good few of them were 'free-loaders'......appartment owners and their mates, sitting in comfort on the balconies, enjoying a few beers and the racing. I ran into Jim Barclay while wandering around, and he says that this has got to stop. Promoters and track owners will never make ends meet while this goes on. I know thats how we have often done it in NZ.....sneaked under a fence and got in free..... but the down side is that competitors will end up paying more, a lot more, to be able to compete. This brings me to the 'crowd' at the recent BMW Festival. A huge amount of effort went into this event and there was a magnificent display of cars both competing and static......enough to satisfy any classic motor-race enthusiast. They, the blokes, were there, usually helping with some team or other, but where were the paying public? Was the event not advertised? I was too busy with our own problems with the Mini to notice how many people were wandering around, but not many by all accounts. Editor Tony Haycock in the latest Classic Driver asks "what went wrong". Where was everybody? We are traveling down a slippery slope here and are in danger of loosing this event and facility if we cant get the public in the gates to pay the ever increasing bills. People from overseas are always commenting on how lucky we are here in NZ, but are we taking it too much for granted. In my opinion we had a lot of good racing at the Festival, with interesting mixes of cars, which in my opinion knocked the 'super-tourers' into a cocked-hat. It was the ST's first event and naturally there was a lot of anticipation as to how it would pan out. By contrast on the same day, the muscle cars were their usual noisy, crazy selves and hugely entertaining. I would have been interested to ask some of the departing crowd what they thought!!
Think about it maybe the people who come from the state house side of the railway tracks ,dont like to see all the appartment owners and their mates sitting on the balconies enjoying a few beers and the racing ,if you were to take the super tourers to pukekohe the public would full the place up you just do not put on racing cars, you put bands side shows etc show cars ,the list goes on you have to think outside the box thats how you make your money, the kids will want to go so mum and dad will have to come allso ,thats the way to do it just wait till they go to ruapuna they will full the place up.
Yes I will have my say as well. I have said it before boring boring the 1st 2 races indian file follow the leadermost of the time the last race thanks to the safteycar frustation set in and some push and shove comenced. and that was considered good racing ,,just like the trans ams yrs back.then the A1s the best thing to F1 and all the hoopla from Shuan ?/raving on how great [AS HE told me we did not have TV coverage untill 5 yrs, ago} Sorry I seem to remember in the 80s all events including motorbikes Minis Form Ford 2 ltr. sedsns plus Sports Sedans Hux .Crowe Algee ect Live Live coverage on the same day!!! LAST WEEK AT mANFIELD the first meeting this season I have been to the crowd was great and did not leave untill the last V8 race was over }{15 cars} not 4 as some twisted folk were claming.. .The Muscle cars are really great even on the dummy grid just to admire and smell the race gas,Then the best competetion came in the GT and Sports car the crowd just loved the big car littlecar battle {going by the continual stream of them checking out the Juno honda 250hp }as it batled with that beatiful Camaro *800hp Trimotor .Just like yrs ago the Mini Coopers v Jaguars .Racing is out braking and out sprinting Not indian file 30 mtrs apart at 150mph Yes I know my son drove the Juno So what
Please do not take my comments that the Super tourers was the best racing, simply that the circuit can cope.
Apartment holders are "freeloaders"!! Hell they have paid a lot of money to own them, or in many cases to rent them for the weekend as a motel. I, and a few friends are hiring one for the Roycroft meeting, does that make me a freeloader? Rent is very similar to any motel nearby. Purchasers of apartments have paid quite a bit "over the odds" and their financial input assisted the construction to an extent, now they are being castigated for this?? Hell guys you want it all!
One thing we have all forgotten, motor racing ceased to be that many years back, it is now an entertainment package. While I don't agree with anything much Custaxie50 says even he wants bands, side shows show cars etc.
The Supers were processional?? In my opinion the NZV8s are a panelbeaters nightmare/joke. Rubbing is racing? No wonder the sponsors take a pasting and don't want to continue in many cases. Seems like if you don't hit others it's not motor racing!
Sorry, end of rant.
Hell, are the (?)Good Old Kiwi Knockers are starting in on Hampton Downs already!! The paint's only just dry!!
I think it's a great place to watch racing - you can get from corner to corner in a minute or two in the infield areas. There have always been some processional motor races - look at some of the old NZGP's, everyone lapped from 3rd place down.
As far as crowds go, perhaps they all went to the Battle of The Streets at Paeroa on Sunday, they talk about 10000 spectators there watching the motorbikes.
Perhaps I'll say a few words about the much-maligned Pukekohe in a day or so, too.
End of Geriatric Rant #2
Stu
My 10cents worth....I've only been to H/D once..at the suggestion of Bob Homewood, I attended a meeting in 2011, and was impressed by several features of the facility:
Easy access; an interesting lay-out, making sensible use of existing contours; great vantage points; open pit access; friendly/helpful staff; decent eating/snacking facilities and last, but by no means least (if one has a female companion), clean toilets.
The crowd WAS rather small, but then the weather was problematic.
I lived in Pukekohe, before, during and after the track was hurriedly constructed; my mother took in overseas 'roomers' at criminal rates, in the early 60"s when local hotels were few and small.
Pukekohe will always be a favorite, however, I believe there IS room for both Pukekohe AND H/D, and I think that a purpose built facility, will, in the long term, provide more variety and more convenience, for the real enthusiasts, and the casual attendees...............their involvement, like it or not, is critical.
We all can and should support both, else we might well find that we end up with nothing.
Per capita, Kiwis have a lot to be proud of, in all realms of motor sport, we need to support those who put their time and hard-earned cash up to ensure that we retain our reputation in these fields.
PS...I WOULD attend H/D regularly if it were not such a long haul from Baltimore
Neville Milne
Yes oldfart, the owners of the apartments have paid good money for their grandstand seat, but their mates haven't. When you hire an apartment for the Roycroft Trophy meeting, who does the rent go to, not the promoters, so everytime this happens they miss out. Of course you may be racing at the meeting, so you have paid a fee for that, and got a couple of complimentary tickets for the team. Not a problem. You could of course say that the people lining the balconies are only there because the owners, or renters invited them for an exciting day of motoracing, and more importantly drinking, and they wouldn't have been there otherwise. So we are back to square one. And by the way, I am certainly NOT knocking HD. I am as desperate as most other racers that HD survives and grows. What I was commenting on was SOME of the racing on the weekend. But it takes all-sorts, and if that is what gives you a buzz, and HD makes money, well thats great. It just a shame that our classic event, which was a far better meeting, drew such a small crowd, because they missed some amazing sights and sounds. I didn't know the Paeroa street races were on the same weekend but dont think that would have made a big difference.
Neville
have you been to Virginia International Raceway yet? It's about 30 km from where I am based, VIR is a great circuit with excellent amenities, and although I haven't been back to HD, sounds like it is a similar set-up. VIR has bathrooms worthy of the Hilton!
Re Baltimore, I attended the inaugural Indycar event there last year, glad to se that they have scraped together the backing for this year too.
Grant Ellwood
Originally Posted by Neville Milne
I have only ever been to Pukekohe a couple of times, and I have to say, as a spectator, its fairly ordinary. You are only allowed close to a small portion of the track (legally), and when you are watching the racing in a designated spot, you are looking through catch fencing held up by great big telegraph poles. Up under the shady trees at the top of the start-finish straight is nice and relaxing, and so is up in the horse racing clubs grandstand, but apart from that, its not much.
I can't comment on H.D, I will after a trip across the ditch next year for the Denny Hulme Festival, but having seen footage and photo's, I have to ask, why is there so little run off area along the outside of the main straight? If a car breaks down, they can't even move off the track out of harms way, and I hate to think what the motorcycle racers think about when they see that concrete wall.
Whilst differing opinions is healthy to any debate ,I can not let the “freeloaders “ label go unchallenged. As an apartment owner ( actually the bank owns most of it ) I have put my money where my mouth is in support of this development and motor racing in general. I have neither a business to right this expense off against nor an in heritance to pay for it, so to be labeled as such just shows the intellect of a large number of supposed motorsport supporters. If the apartment owners had not stumped up then H.D. would still be just another pipe dream. For promoters to whine about the apartments getting a free ticket is so hypercritical when we all know that these same promoters give away thousands of “corporate freeloader “ tickets to every event they put on ! Whilst some thought they were not loud enough and others found them too processional , I thought overall they put on a slick show. Yes, they need a larger grid and yes, they need a reverse grid race , but other than the purists, I think most spectators would have come away fairly impressed.- especially given the ticket pricing. As for the BMW festival, then it has got to be acknowledged that aiming it at predominately a European marquee then it had limited appeal to the average NZ motorsport supporter. A gamble that may not have paid off ? A return next year to Denny Hulme should see the crowds come back.
Dont you understand oldfart its getting people there in the first place would you say, think about it sit down ,not all want to see the racing so you know that before you start ,like life there are things we all do not want to do ,just look around at what some like to do and see maybe put a free bus on to start with before you start thinking about putting a meeting on ,say how am i going to full this place up, you all get around the table and say shit how the (f) are we going to make some money to make this place work thats the only way to do it ,ok oldfart ,you dont agree with much i have to say so if this is the case ,tell all out here how you would run a meeting and get the people to come ,have your say oldfart.
Parnelli........what I meant to say in post 25 and made clear in 31, was the invited guests of the apartment owners who were the freeloaders, not the owners themselves. I'm sure when you have stumped up with $300,000 plus for an apartment, you have in fact bought a ticket for life at the venue........the word YOU being important here. But hey, lets not get carried away by all this, I am involved with motorsport as much as anyone on here, and am happy to pay whatever, to compete, spectate, and leave the worry to other better qualified people. By the way Parnelli, I see you joined the roaring season in June last year. To date you have posted twice. Perhaps you cant be bothered debating with people of doubtful intellect like myself.
Parnelli, i believe you are quite rite that the European marquee probably had limited appeal to the general public/come racer. But having just read the editors comments in the latest "Classic Driver" you would tend to believe that even the 60's/70's Historic Muscle car class has a limited appeal as well, Hmmmmm. And at the Skope with probably the worst class's i'd ever raced in, but with a huge crowd attendance, maybe we do have it all wrong!!! but i tend to believe that the Januarys dates collide with too many other automotive events and the paying public can only stand so$$$$$$$ much.
As a point of interest, at the Monterey Historics last year, probably the largest USA west coast historic event, it was spot the spectator!! i question my american mate,(who was racing) about this and his comments were they are not intested in the public as its a "Historic" racers event only and if some public come along thats OK, as for funding? its the competitor that pays and believe me, DO THEY PAY!!
Dale Mathers
Direct quote from the promotional sales documentation “ Imagine taking friends or clients along to race day “ To now have track management, promoters and supposed motorsport supporters label said people ‘ freeloaders ‘ is just a little bit ripe ! Whilst I am happy for my quests to pay to go thru to the infield, I don’t think anyone has the right to slander invited quests on to freehold property ! I hope that all supposed motorsport supporters take the opportunity to truly show their support for this development by purchasing either an existing apartment ( some are always for sale ) or one in the new proposal. I believe that this is the best way anyone can support this development, rather than bickering about who has or has not paid to get in. Jeez, I better watchout, two posts in one day, I run out of ink if I keep this up !
Dale, regarding the Monterey Historic meeting, and the fact that very few non competitive spectators were in attendance. As I said in a previous post, I fear that this situation will come to NZ. Some folk I spoke to at the Festival said...'so what that there aren't many spectators here, we, the competitors are enjoying ourselves'. True, but in a meeting like that there were some big bills to be paid I'll bet. The paying public help to pay these bills. To cover this eventuallity in the future, you can see promoters upping the entrance fee to cover any shortfall in income. Then it will be only rich fellas like yourself competing!!!!!!!!!!! There is probably some truth in what was said about the theme of the meeting being a single marque, rather than a NZ personality. Nearly everyone at last years Chris Amon festival in the 60's saloon category said they wouldn't be attending the BMW festival, including me. But I changed my mind, as I hadn't done anything racing-wise up to that point during that season. And Dale, dont you ever have any doubts about the popularity of the HMC series.......it is spot on, even though I can see the over 3000cc class will, in the not too distant future, be able to run without the under 3 litre boys. You cant really compare Hd or Puke with Skope.......Christchurch is different, always has been, I come from there and I know. Right now a lot of people are trying to escape from the earthquake syndrome and a bit of Classic Motoracing is just the way to do it.
That would be nice Parnelli, unfortunately my bank manager is not as sympathetic as yours, and I will have to resort to renting an apartment, should that be necessary, from someone who had the foresight to buy one at the outset.
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