Hampton Downs

[Grant Ellwood]

Neville, I'm with you in wishing Hampton Downs the best of luck in their very brave bid to build a world class circuit, and during the recession too, big cojones those guys!
VIR hosts some great events, about 8 spectator race meetings this year including ALMS which takes over from the Daytona Prototype round. They have a major vintage race around September but the biggest draw spectator-wise is the AMA motorbike event. Other club type races I attend are SCCA and SVRA (vintage) but spectators aren't encouraged, probably the insurance costs are too high for the clubs. VIR survives by hosting track testing, driver schools etc and with a combo of track layouts they sell about 450 days per year. I guess HD might be aiming for that broad market also.
When I moved here circa 1999 I was shocked to realise how popular NASCAR is, kind of like rugby is in NZ (I can only speak for my part of the east coast), for example when I go to diners for my cholesterol jolt the general topic of conversation from a cross section of all ages was how Earnhart was better than Gordon etc etc and most people are polarised around drivers or the four car manufacturers. Indycar, F1 never seem to get mentioned at this level, thank goodness for Speed Channel and Versus!
Dale Mathers also mentioned the high entry fees here and I agree with that, for me to run some vintage races fees and insurance are a major part of the budget, thousands not hundreds of bucks.

Grant, I have not been to VIR, yet. Of late, work schedules and the restoration of both an old car and an even older house, have put a crimp in apre time activities. Over the years I have been lucky enough to get to Sears Point, Talladega, Daytona, Summit Point. Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen and Indy.
Like some, I was surprised that Baltimore managed to attract AND host an Indycar race...Although it was quite successful, from an attendance point of view, it was still problematic, financially, and that's with both city and state involvement and commitment. No wonder, then, that H/D are still finding their way. It's early days yet, for H/D; it's a brave effort and they deserve to succeed

[kiwi285]

[QUOTE=Steve Holmes;10401]We're living in a changing world, and as a form of entertainment, motorsport has had to adapt to the changing times. Modern day motorsport has to provide a more appealing package than it did 40 years ago. The paying public just won't accept watching one car drive off into the distance and win by 2 laps. The competition to relieve people of their hard-earned is huge, and if motorsport can't keep up with the times, it loses out. Thats why there are more and more racing formulae in which the cars are all identical. Like or hate it, there aren't enough enthusiasts for motorsport to survive, it has to appeal to the general public also. So the racing needs to be close and unpredictable, the cars loud, there needs to be an atmosphere, and if there is a crash or two, thats even better. NASCAR is a perfect example of this.



I wholeheartedly agree with Steve here. I have been to about three Australian Muscle Car Masters and even when it is wet they seem to get great crowds. With the car clubs included there are as many cars in the car park areas as there are in the pit paddock worth looking at and photographing. There were as many people around the car club areas as there were in the pits and there were plenty of enthusiastic kids around as well. I think that the draw of Fathers Day also helps here.

I am looking forward to the Hulme Festival and feel sure that this will see a lift in entry numbers and attendance if we all do our parts and stir our mates and old motorsport friends to turn up and enjoy the experience.


Historic racing is slightly different, it appeals to a different breed. But it still has to keep pace with the changing times. Consider the growth of discussion forums like this one, and compare them to magazines. Discussion forums are interactive. Everyone gets a voice, and gets to give their thoughts on a subject. A magazine is more one-sided. Before the arrival of the internet, magazines were it.

One of the best interactive historic racing events I've been to is the Australian Muscle Car Masters at Eastern Creek. That event attracts a larger crowd than the V8 Supercars when they race at Eastern Creek. And I think a large part of that is because the MCM is an interactive event. The organisers have built into the event the attraction of the car clubs, and those involved in the car clubs get to journey to the event with their club mates, and be part of the event, rather than just be there to be entertained. And there is a HUGE number of these people who attend so they can park their cars up together, interact with fellow members, and chat with fellow enthusiasts. I'd say a good portion of them don't even watch the racing, or even have an interest in the racing. But they've paid to be there, and the organisers benefit from them being there, both in terms of the dollars they pay to be there, and the additional crowds they attract. So the MCM is a sort of double-whammy. There are those who attend as spectators, to be entertained. And there are those who attend as car club members, to show off their cars and interact. Of course, you need the space to cater for all these car clubs, and even Eastern Creek is bursting at the seams. But its probably a nice problem to have.

[Kiwiboss]

Don't forget that Sydney has over 3 Million people that all live in close proximity to Eastern Creek, of-course not living there we don't know what other automotive events are on but if they have that timed right it probably makes for the event they have, and i do agree that the car clubs and other added features help pull the punters!! and i've heard they may event move it to Melborne? What we need is someone here to step up and help poor old Jim Barclay with a similar arrangement!! any takers? and don't forget they can't even make the "Big Day Out" event for the kids work so we can't blame that on the age generation? i still think that us "Fickle" kiwi's will tackle certain events and then disappear to save up for another day. The Denny Hulme next summer will surely bring a larger crowd as even the name will conger up the more poorer of us Motorsport followers and public alike!!

Dale Mathers

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, Sydney has the population, but the Muscle Car Masters draws a larger crowd at that venue than the V8 Supercars. And yes, I agree, the Denny Hulme NZFMR in 2013 will be massive! The NZFMR really is a superb event, and Jim and the rest of his team should be proud of their efforts.

[Kiwiboss]

Interesting enough, after watching the news lastnight it seems that Otago Rugby, and Rugby in general is in financial trouble as well, with Waikato carrying big dept too, one comment from an offical was that the rugby season goes to long and not just the winter sport it use to be!! and with too many games the punters aren't coming out!!!wow!! give them all a ball i say!! So there you go, its not just Motorsport? its that "Fickle NZ Crowd" tryin to stretch that dollar!! under the circumstances Motorsport's probably not doing TOOO bad!!

Dale Mathers

[Lee Tracey]

Perhaps not fickle per se but just stretched for the Pingas so want to ensure they get the best value for money when they do spend. And Timing is very much an issue. With my job I generally have all my hols in Jan as it is the quietest time, however car interests alone that month include World 240s (speedway), Kumeu Show, FMR, probably at least one other Speedway event, add to that Ellerslie, Stockcar Teams, Galaxy of Cars all within the first two weeks of Feb plus whatever Tier 1 race meetings are happening in the top half of the NI and there are definitely more events than $$$. Not to mention the fact that the 240's (Fri & Sat nights) -Rotovegas, and Kumeu (Sat/Sun) and last year IIRC FMR were on the same weekend.

But agree Dale that as a sport we are definitely doing better than most sports, maybe what we need is to discover Crickets secret, as that is one sport I can not work out the finances of!

Cheers
Lee

[timbo61]

Yep, Sydney has the population, but the Muscle Car Masters draws a larger crowd at that venue than the V8 Supercars. And yes, I agree, the Denny Hulme NZFMR in 2013 will be massive! The NZFMR really is a superb event, and Jim and the rest of his team should be proud of their efforts.

The Muscle Car Masters at Eastern Creek is always held on Fathers Day, with the slogan of "Take Dad somewhere he really want's to go this Fathers Day", and it has been a very successful promotion with a lot of families in attendance. The trick is to get those people along to a "proper" Historic meeting.
Perhaps H.D. should start having a Muscle Car Masters type event.

[GD66]

Like the way you think, Timbo !

[Shano]

The Muscle Car Masters at Eastern Creek is always held on Fathers Day, with the slogan of "Take Dad somewhere he really want's to go this Fathers Day", and it has been a very successful promotion with a lot of families in attendance. The trick is to get those people along to a "proper" Historic meeting.
Perhaps H.D. should start having a Muscle Car Masters type event.

Simply brilliant.

[Lee Tracey]

Perhaps H.D. should start having a Muscle Car Masters type event.

How did the recent Chrome event go? Perhaps that might give an indicator.

Cheers
Lee

[AMCO72]

When do you think this was written?

The key to success, is to present a sound and raceworthy car, even if it is not tuned to give its full potential, on the starting grid for the first race of the series. Adherence as far as possible to this principle is essential for two reasons. Most members of the public, as opposed to enthusiasts, go to motoracing to be entertained. Unless the competition is keen they will seek less boring attractions. If there is no competition, there wont be many spectators, and if there aren't many spectators, there wont be many sponsors, many of whom look to motoracing as a means of advertising their products, many of which bear no relationship to cars or the motor business. Whether enthusiasts like it or not, the present relatively high level of New Zealand motoracing will not be maintained without this sponsorship.

Sounds like today, doesn't it. Actually it was written in 1972...40 years ago, as part of an article on saloon car racing. Taken from the Shell Book of Motoracing. Seems nothing changes!

[woody]

A good write up in this mornings Herald on page A7 about Hampton Downs. TR said "Cockroach" is playing games.

[Kiwiboss]

A good write up in this mornings Herald on page A7 about Hampton Downs. TR said "Cockroach" is playing games.

Received the article today via Mike Feisst(kiwi285) certainly made for interesting reading!!! can you imagine the political bullshit Tony and Chris have to put up with just to get this event, let alone run it!! makes you wonder whether its even worth it, but we have to presume as a track owners they need all the events they can get and this is certainly a big-gee.

You know the next comment will be "you can't see all the track at Hampton" sure as hell will be a S#@T load better than any street race, which is the very reason i only ever went to Hamilton once, viewing was terrible!! and can you imagine the spend to bring Pukee up to today's safety standards, that is one dangerous track for cars as fast as V8 Super-cars!!!

Interesting times ahead for sure!!!

Dale Mathers

[Kiwiboss]

Sounds like a done deal according to the radio today!!! the AKL super council will spent 10.5 Million on Pukekohe over the next 5 years for the Supercars!! quite amazing with the recent noise issue's let alone the poor facility's!! i guess been the council the can side step any resource consent issues and buy of the complainers!! Hmmmmmmmmmm

Dale M

[GeebeeNZ]

The Auckland Council spending millions on Pukekohe when we already have Hampton Downs is like Motorsport NZ spending money on what has become a second rate series called NZV8s. Its a no brainer. Its amazing what people do when they have someone elses money to spend.

[GD66]

I heard Cochrane (and that's as politely as I can describe the man) interviewed on SportFM here last summer when he was announcing the death knell of the Hamilton race (quite a different story from when he was trumpeting its' debut !) and he said then that there were NO suitable venues at all in NZ. The announcer, who had a clue, suggested HD may be a contender, and Cochrane instantly and sniffily dismissed it out of hand as unacceptable for V8SC requirements. Never having been there, I can only assume that means there aren't limitless swank penthouses for the free-grazing corporate elbow-rubbing hoi-polloi that get jammed into the best viewing spots at all their other circuits. On the surface of it, you would think Cochrane and his yes-men may co-operate with the HD developers to sort this seemingly-minor issue out to mutual gain, but if you're not prepared to kiss up to him, forget it. Does anyone remember why that lot stamped out of Pukekohe, vowing never to return, in the first place ? Sigh...

[Oldfart]

What is so great about the Aussie V8s that makes it worth worrying about them? Serious question!
Perhaps if the citizenry of the "Supercity" formed an uprising over the mis-spending of their rates there may be a result. Yeah right.
It seems that we get more and more imposed on us by the bureaucraps. The supercity itself being another example.

[RogerH]

I suppose a factor in the decision to go to Pukekohe was the fact that while Pukekohe lies within the Auckland City boundaries, Hampton Downs is 2km outside of the boundary in the Waikato District - despite each track being almost the same in travelling time from Auckland CBD. I couldn't imagine the Auckland City bureaucrats spending $$ (our money!!) in someone else's territory no matter how good the logic.

The only upside is that Pukekohe will be improved and then we will have two good circuits in the Auckland area.

[ERC]

Does anyone know if any proposed work at Pukekohe will mean the cancellation of meetings planned before the V8s?

Does anyone know if the planned upgrades will mean higher circuit hire fees and therefore, higher race entry fees and higher spectator admission fees?

[woody]

Does anyone know what the money will be spent on ie track surface or facilities or a corporate box for Len Brown.