Hi All;
My name is Raymond Bennett and am currently VP of MotorSport NZ, but more importantly perhaps...the Chairman of the Historic & Classic Commission.
Just here so you can all tell me what the sport needs to do to help you all preserve the wonderful history we have in metal, photographic and memories form.
I will try to answer all questions, but otherwise just want to be educated and entertained.
Thanks
P.S. I dont mind emoticons, remind me of the wife!
Great to have you here at the Roaring Season Crunch, a direct line to MSNZ's main Historic/Classic guy!! boy look out!! I heard you were at Skope on the weekend, along with myself and Steve Holmes but didn't see you? lots of interest in Historic Muscle Cars down that way, the saloon groups seem a bit of a mess as i was racing with modern high HP Porsches, etc but otherwise still had fun.Originally Posted by crunch
Hi All;
My name is Raymond Bennett and am currently VP of MotorSport NZ, but more importantly perhaps...the Chairman of the Historic & Classic Commission.
Just here so you can all tell me what the sport needs to do to help you all preserve the wonderful history we have in metal, photographic and memories form.
I will try to answer all questions, but otherwise just want to be educated and entertained.
Thanks
P.S. I dont mind emoticons, remind me of the wife!
Dale Mathers
Tauranga
Yeah, was only there Friday and Saturday, and didn't see more than 10 minutes of the actual motorsport.
Is it amazing how different things are done between the Islands when it comes to H&C motorsport.
I am conscious that the COD system has flaws, and the H&C Commission is working hard to address these. However; I still think it is a system worth keeping if not for anything else, but to protect the history.
I appreciate how series such as yours have taken on board the Schedule T&C regulations and CODs, if only other series would use the T&C regs, it would make things so much easier.
Hopefully everyone knows there is a revised Schedule T&C, and please take the time to see if your car fits within any of the 4 groups. If not; drop me a line via email, or on here to tell me why it doesn't.
Hope everyone has a great weekend's motorsport where ever you are
Crunch
Good to hear from you Crunch, i think you may be fielding a couple of questions so sit on down and make your self comfortable.
PS you still doing a bit of rallying.
Crunch,
Can you please put up a link to the revised T&C regs and possibly a summary of the changes and why?
Hope you realize what you have let yourself in for outing yourself here, there are more than a few people hot on originality/ period correctness lurking here!
The HMC/ under 3 litre T&C class was an outstanding success at the Hampton NZFMR and will grow if the promotors and officials take the movement on board.
You are SOOOO rite Howard, i don't mind doin my bit for HMC, and Robin Greenland and team will handle the U3L class, but if you don't have the support of the Event Organiser, Track Promoter, and(hopefully) Crunch's division of Motorsport NZ, well you're buggered!!!
I personally don't think there's too much wrong with T&C, schedule K and other MSNZ Historic and Classic rules, its just that MSNZ has never bothered to use then to get a class up and going, and then stick to it like CAMS Australia has!! so lets see if we all Historic racers can do something!!!
Dale Mathers
Holy smoke......I think this Guy is in for a bit of a pasteing!! Might be 'crunch time'. !!!! We had a great time at HD under the HMC banner U3L class, and I applaud Dale and his team for 'policing' everything so fairly and patiently. We also had a good time in the South Island last year, but the grids down there were certainly a strange mixture of pre 65, hot rods, and muscle cars, probably because the fields were so small, especially at Teretonga. But hey, who cares, not us. We had a chance to race against stuff we would not normally race with, so that was a bit of fun. Crunch says he wants to entertained and educated, well I think he will get both of those here in equal amounts! Welcome to 'theroaringseason' where anything goes......well nearly.
Hi Crunch - welcome to the forum. I caught up with you briefly at Skope where we had bought down some of our historic single seaters to run in the VCC race. It was a bit of a surprise to come up against cars masquerading as vintage/historic racers with disc brakes, hot engines, low profile fat radial tyres .......... do you know if these cars actually have CODs and if so how did they get them? Seems to me that there are different approaches between the North and South Islands.
Cheers
Roger
I may not have made myself clear in the last post. While we did have a fun time in the South Island with their 'mixed grids' I much prefer the stricter rules of HMC, and I think at HD, that our races, and maybe the F5000 drew the biggest crowds at the fence. In our case the little guys against the big guys ,something that has always put a smile on the spectators faces. So stick to it Dale, the numbers will build if the pit talk that I heard comes true. While I'm at it I would just like to thank those stalwarts Robin and Karen Greenland. They kept us informed as to what was happening and in my case, as I am 1/2 deaf, was a big help I can tell you. They were also unstinting in their help in coming to the aid of the Amco Mini on more than one occasion with the offer of parts to keep us on the road. She, the Mini, was fine with Grandpa behind the wheel, but when a real racer was in charge the poor old girl lost her cool in a big way. Never mind was fun while it lasted, and the Greenlands help made it last that much longer. Ta.
Crunch is a pretty approachable bloke, but i do admire him for putting his hand up and he does have reasonably big shoulders. What with some of the things said on the rally forum (onlinemotorsport) and what is brewing here, those shoulders will come in handy. Maybe a little meeting with Mr Mathers and Co. will save alot of heart break.
Yep AMCO, your HMC races were great to watch, we downed tools and went and watched. Dale you cracked it in all class's.
Raymond, welcome to The Roaring Season. Its great to have you here. I don't think you have too much to worry about on here. I personally think the MSNZ historic regulations, particularly the T&C are really pretty good. Its just that many people bi-pass them when building race cars. These rules were used as the basis for the Historic Muscle Cars class, and apart from a few potential loopholes that were closed up, and the eventual compulsory fitment of 15" diameter wheels, the HMC regs are very close. T&C regs were also used for the under-3000s tin-tops at the 2012 NZFMR, and mixed in together with the HMC machines, produced a fantastic show and a wide variety of cars that were quite evenly matched and that well represented the era.
These rules aren't enforced within NZ, unlike the historic rules used in Australia by CAMS. I actually think this is a good thing. But I would also like to see groups using them in both the North and South Islands, so teams can race against similar cars on either Island, and travel between the two, knowing they'll be competing against cars of a similar ilk. Witnessing recently the hugely lopsided spectacle at a South Island historic racing event where a late model 900hp Porsche was in the same race as Bernie Hines in his 50 year old Broadspeed Mini really had me scratching my head about the direction historic racing is taking at some events.
Steve, couldnt agree more.
Guys, will try to answer the rest of your questions above after this weekend. At NZ Grand Prix here at Manfeild and then in Auckland on Monday trying to sort out the whole debacle of Drag Racing in NZ at the moment. So will get back to these points on the REAL motorsport on Tuesday.
Thanks for the welcome....can I take my chainmail off now??
Welcome Crunch.
I have some questions relating to the cut off date between Vintage and Motorsport NZ. When you hhave your feet on the ground again will be a good time.
Hello Oldfart...you're not my dad are you?
Anyway; what are your questions?
Still busy with other motorsport business and will answer other questions already asked asap
Hi Howard,
Jeez;...that motorsport website isnt exactly user-friendly is it? Anyway, finally found it. www.motorsport.org.nz On title page go to Resources, then manual, then scroll down left hand column until you get to Schedule T&C under Appendix
6.
Reasons for changes are formatting for ease of reading and comparison between groups, freedoms to allow more cars in such as non-requirement of roof lining and such.
Sorry; not much more detail as on the run at the moment
Tough role Crunch, the updated rules have addressed a few issues, but there are still others that if strictly adhered to, eliminate far too many cars. You are already aware of what they are, but we still have to accept that T & C is NOT Appendix K.
The real purists should go the Appendix K route as that is what it is there for. Those series running successfully outside of T & C do so for very sound reasons. Those series overall may not be too far away from T & C, but by insisting on 100% conformity, in several cases I am aware of, it would merely sideline those cars altogether and that seems fairly pointless.
Where else would they run? They are not moderns, they are still classics, but as these cars age, genuine spares, especially exterior trims, are getting very scarce. Several drivers will park the steel bumpers, steel wings, chrome/stainless strips, window glass, in a safe place - and why shouldn't they?
The same applies to old gearboxes. If you strip first or second gear in a 40 or 50 year old gearbox, would you prefer the driver waits three or four months (meaning a loss of race levy of $25 a time for MSNZ!) sourcing the genuine article, or is it in fact more sensible to use a modern gearbox where spares and expertise are plentiful? The answer appears to be obvious, but if the race entry numbers are not high, then the financial viability of each and every classic race meeting is affected.
Drivers have the option of Appendix K or Schedule K if they so desire and one or two do in fact have that, but at this stage, if cars are accepted by a series committee, that should be enough.
You are well aware of the views of various series committees and convenors. Those running outside CoD or strict T & C conformity are still in the majority in terms of driver numbers, but all their series are still growing.
The up to 3000cc saloon grids so far, have only consisted of cars already racing in other groups, so they haven't yet brought anyone else new into the fold. All that happens is that one whole grid at a normal race meeting brings in zero income where the promoters elect to not charge extra for running in two groups. The only exception was the quoted BMW Festival, but many regulars boycotted the event as their grids were far too diverse, with fast race cars being mixed with T & C conforming road cars. The non-conforming series were not part of the festival anyway.
Top marks for fronting up Crunch, but I can't see those series switching over just yet. The mixed grids in the south confuse everyone and RogerH is correct in challenging it, as the north is often told that the south have an equal say and 'they might not agree' to what the north wants. One of the aims of the CoD was so that cars could theoretically race anywhere and organisers would be happy to accept them, but in truth, all race organisers set their own criteria anyway and as pointed out, it often creates very strange grids. At least the non-conforming northern series groups have grids that the drivers accept as normal.
Last edited by screwdriver; 04-25-2012 at 07:50 AM.
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