The State of NZ Motorsport.

[markec]

It would appear that the Safety thread is loosing its way and is becoming a grizzle thread regarding the poor state of Motorsport in NZ.
I like others who have made comment about attending motorsport events have become disillusioned with what is being offered as modern promoted events, the entertainment value is almost nil, with small fields becoming very processional.
I am limiting my attendance to historical events where I spend most of my time looking at the cars and conversing with those I know and making some new acquaintances where possible. I don't view many of the races, only those that hold an inter4est to me.
The word on the ground is that Motor Sport New Zealand is making moves to try and take over the running of the Southern Festival of Speed which includes Ruapuna'e Scope Meeting along with the Levels Timaru and Teratonga events.They have stuffed every thing else up so I would hope the organizers of these events send them packing back to Wellington and tell them to keep their negative thinking,meddling hands off 3 events that are run extremely well, get much bigger attendances and are %100 more acceptable to the general public than anything MANZ can come up with.

[kiwi285]

I fully agree with your comments. I only attend historic meetings these days and wouldn't waste my time with the current offerings by NZ Motorsport. Even the V8 Supercars are lacklustre and the costs forced on all spectators is a sure way of killing casual spectators from ever returning. I don't know how a family could afford to attend such a meeting. Give me the historic meetings any day. Frienfly people, great cars and some special racing. They seem to be totally out of touch with what the paying public want to see.

If Motorpsort NZ ever get their hands on the Southern Festival of Speed series of meetings we will see that ruined as well. God help NZ motorsport.

[Dave Silcock]

I fully agree with your comments. I only attend historic meetings these days and wouldn't waste my time with the current offerings by NZ Motorsport. Even the V8 Supercars are lacklustre and the costs forced on all spectators is a sure way of killing casual spectators from ever returning. I don't know how a family could afford to attend such a meeting. Give me the historic meetings any day. Frienfly people, great cars and some special racing. They seem to be totally out of touch with what the paying public want to see.

If Motorpsort NZ ever get their hands on the Southern Festival of Speed series of meetings we will see that ruined as well. God help NZ motorsport.

I totally agree, MSNZ has almost no credibility with anybody I know and my dealings with them over the years has been almost entirely negative. Take the case of someone new to the sport with a purchased race car, he was turned down by the scrutineer because the side intrusion bar did not have certification. How ever as it was a bolt in, he was able to race without it. Obviously much safer now. Or the owner of a factory built Porsche that had done a season in Europe and one in SE Asia being told he needs two more tubes to comply here. The importer of a Nascar truck being told his rool cage would not pass!! Take my own car for instance, the roll cage was profressionly built in 2008 and inspected by the MSNZ technical officer. Because I was well away from completion I decided to do all the paper work at once at the end. Hello my beautiful rollcage, Chrome moly TIG welded, no longer complies. If I had done it in 08 it would have and I could use it today, what makes it un safe now? If they do not pass it the car will not race, as I am not going to rip it to bits to change it now. They have had my application for that and a log book for four months now and I have yet to hear from them.

[AMCO72]

Dave, don't be unreasonable, they have been at the beach. Can't hurry these things.So, bang goes my drive if things aren't sorted?

[Dave Silcock]

Dave, don't be unreasonable, they have been at the beach. Can't hurry these things.So, bang goes my drive if things aren't sorted?

I talked to a guy last week who had waited 3 years for a COD for an E 30. They had to ring him and ask for a new cheque as the one he sent had expired. On enquiring on what took so long the reply was ''we just found it under a pile of papers'' so I am not holding my breath.

[Carlo]

I certainly have not heard such rumours, in fact I hear the very opposite and that includes the role and position of TMC in the future. The role of Motorsport NZ does not include running meetings and/or series and sometimes people get the role & title of TMC (The Motorsport Company) and MSNZ mixed.

However, I for one would love to see one ot two true historic classes run as part of the Summer Series alongside of Formula Toyota, FF, and NZV8

[richard lester]

I certainly have not heard such rumours, in fact I hear the very opposite and that includes the role and position of TMC in the future. The role of Motorsport NZ does not include running meetings and/or series and sometimes people get the role & title of TMC (The Motorsport Company) and MSNZ mixed.

However, I for one would love to see one ot two true historic classes run as part of the Summer Series alongside of Formula Toyota, FF, and NZV8

totally agree with you carlo.
i am hearing rumours of some well needed change to event management for the summer series--i really hope these become more than rumours and i also really hope some 'race management' changes happen as well.
nothing quite like standing at the end of the plank with your eyes shut still thinking all the problems will go away before you step off.
NZ motorsport is fundamentally very strong,just needs to be looked after properly...........

[Dave Silcock]

I certainly have not heard such rumours, in fact I hear the very opposite and that includes the role and position of TMC in the future. The role of Motorsport NZ does not include running meetings and/or series and sometimes people get the role & title of TMC (The Motorsport Company) and MSNZ mixed.

However, I for one would love to see one ot two true historic classes run as part of the Summer Series alongside of Formula Toyota, FF, and NZV8

In the light of what has been posted here do you still stand by your assertion that MSNZ and TMC are separate entities?

[Trevor Sheffield]

Thanks Roger,

I see that unfortunately it is not necessary for MSNZ to use Clause 19,1 in support of the matter under consideration. Clauses 4.1, 4.11, and especially 4.15 provide an open cheque book. The constitution provides the individuals who finance the organisation, no protection whatsoever against the actions of the executive, who remain a law unto themselves. From a practical point of view the constitution constitutes toilet paper.

As it did 60 years ago, the key to the issue remains the MSNZ claimed exclusive representation of the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile ("FIA"). (Refer toilet paper clause 3.5.) N.B. FIA membership is limited to one National Automobile Club or Association per country. An FIA’ member’s activity must embrace the entire national territory and cover road traffic, touring, the defence of the rightful interests of users and their safety on the one hand, and motor sport on the other. Refer here. ---

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/sta...sContents.aspx

As it did 60 yrs. ago, the Automobile Association NZ (AA), in fact holds New Zealand membership within the FIA and this was somehow delegated to ANZCC which became MSNZ. Refer ---

http://www.aa.co.nz/about/the-aa/affiliations/

The first step is to establish the exactly how MSNZ legally claims and establishes their exclusive rights to represent the FIA and then, investigate how the undemocratic MSNZ, might be controlled via their overlord, the AA. Surely it is the AA siting in the driver's seat.

How is it that only a single motor sport organisation remains exclusively under the umbrella of the AA?

Trevor.

[Oldfart]

Hey Carlo, Tier 1 now has fields of how many?
Suzuki last time I saw was 12, FF not much different, Toyota if not for the overseas guys would not exist, why would the historics bolster these failures?
Over 70 paid entries for next weekend Roycroft Trophy! something is out of kilter!

[Trevor Sheffield]

I have been involved with motor sport for a very long time, early on at club committee level and as a club secretary. I have witnessed the absolute bureaucracy initiated and developed under various veils, which has benefitted only those thereby personally gaining authority, i.e. empire builders.

[Oldfart]

I bought a car which was imported with FIA approved cage, and the paperwork less than 3 months old. It was allowed to run with the overseas owner, but not approved for NZ (ownership and use) by motorsport. The stories abound.

[bob homewood]

Steve,I wonder if you should move the non safety issues to this thread ,so the conversation does not become fragmented ,also it should stop the other thread getting off topic

[Dave Silcock]

Steve,I wonder if you should move the non safety issues to this thread ,so the conversation does not become fragmented ,also it should stop the other thread getting off topic

Hi Bob, I think what we are trying to show through the roll bar thing is not safety but the goddamned stupidity of the organisation.

[RogerH]

The following remit has been submitted to the MSNZ Annual Conference in May. It address the involvement of MSNZ in commercial motor sport activities :


REMIT TO 65TH ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING 2012


We, the Thoroughbred and Classic Car Owners Club Inc (TACCOC), wish to place the following remit before delegates at the appropriate meeting forming part of the 65th Annual General Council Meeting 2012.


1. Rule No./Schedule or appendix affected: MSNZ Inc Constitution Powers - Clauses 4.11 and 4.15

2. Remit: That MSNZ Inc amend its Constitution to specifically provide that as a regulatory and administrative body it should not directly or indirectly engage in commercial activities.

3. Reason:

MSNZ Inc is an Incorporated Society with a non-profit status. It is the FIA appointed governing body for New Zealand motor sport and undertakes regulatory and administrative functions on behalf of Member Clubs.

• MSNZ Inc has taken majority shareholdings in The Motorsport Company Limited (TMC) and Rally of New Zealand Limited (RNZ). These companies respectively promote, on a commercial basis, the Tier One circuit racing and the International Rally New Zealand based event. As MSNZ Inc is a non-profit organisation it is unable to obtain any financial benefits from these companies either directly or indirectly. It cannot receive, dividends, profit shares, inflated fees or levies without prejudicing MSNZ's tax exempt status. If MSNZ's tax free status was successfully challenged by the IRD it would have a significantly detrimental affect on Member Clubs.

• Essentially, MSNZ's involvement in TMC and RNZ has no financial benefits for member clubs but exposes them to significant risk should either TMC or RNZ have financial difficulties. Both TMC and RNZ are operating in an environment where financial adversity is a realistic prospect.

• Additionally, it is considered that it is wrong in principle that a regulatory and administrative body should have commercial interests in the activities that it is regulating and administering. Such a commercial involvement creates the potential for conflicts of interest.

• One of the fundamental objectives of MSNZ's Constitution (at Clause 3.10) requires MSNZ to "at all times to act on behalf of, and in the interests of, the member clubs ....". It is debatable that MSNZ's majority commercial interests in TMC and RNZ are for the benefit of all Member Clubs. The involvement of these companies is restricted to the activities of only a portion of MSNZ Member Club competitors but the "contribution" from MSNZ to, for example, TMC has been significant. Cash donations by MSNZ to TMC exceed $1 million of Member Clubs’ funds and recently MSNZ announced that it had purchased the intellectual property and jigs for the new generation NZV8 car. It is questionable whether an administrative and regulatory body should be involved in such activities and whether they are in the interests of all Member Clubs.

• The financial and other indirect support MSNZ provides, especially to TMC, serves only a very small minority of MSNZ affiliated competitors. MSNZ is required under its Constitution to act in the benefit of Member Clubs and it is considered that it can best achieve this obligation by utilising funds in a manner that provides benefit to a wider range of MSNZ affiliated competitors.

• MSNZ cannot argue that such "donations" to the likes of TMC are "repaid" by levies and fees as any levy or fee that exceeds that which would normally be paid by an unrelated third party, could be deemed to be profit share by stealth and accordingly prejudice MSNZ's tax fee status.

• MSNZ should exit those companies in which it has a commercial interest in an orderly manner to enable the best return from its investments.

[timbo61]

As an enthusiastic spectator in Australia, every promotional and sponsorship dollar has gone in to V8 Supercars.
However despite many Government dollars gone in to support the rounds of the series, as a spectator, you are still asked to pay top dollar to attend the events, and that is just the start of the cash drain.
Sit in a temporary grandstand, extra please, walk through the pits, even more please, but if you actually watch the racing, it is no better than a local club race meeting.
I have long gone given up attending V8 Supercar meetings, and instead have bought an "enthusiast" membership to the Australian Racing Drivers Club, which basically enables me free entry to all events run at the Eastern Creek Raceway in Sydney.
This way I know my money goes towards the club that runs day to day motor racing in Sydney, and is not a once a year cash grab and see you later, which is what V8 Supercars basically is.

[conrod]

The following remit has been submitted to the MSNZ Annual Conference in May. It address the involvement of MSNZ in commercial motor sport activities :


REMIT TO 65TH ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING 2012

Nice work TACCOC, and good to see someone is finally trying to address these issues. Please keep us posted on any updates Roger H.

Conrad Timms

[GeebeeNZ]

Roger, At one time the two companies had different balance dates to Motorsport NZ and used that as an excuse not to have to present current company accounts to the Motorsport AGM. This is frowned upon by the NZ Institute of Chartered Accountants and should have been highlighted by the Auditors. Is that still happenening.

[RogerH]

Roger, At one time the two companies had different balance dates to Motorsport NZ and used that as an excuse not to have to present current company accounts to the Motorsport AGM. This is frowned upon by the NZ Institute of Chartered Accountants and should have been highlighted by the Auditors. Is that still happenening.

Yes, you are right Graeme - MSNZ has a balance date of 31 December while TMC has a balance date of 31 March. Of more concern is the refusal of MSNZ to consolidate the activities of TMC as MSNZ is a 60% shareholder in TMC. This is despite the MSNZ auditor tagging the MSNZ accounts and stating :

" Motorsport New Zealand has not consolidated its interest in Rally New Zealand and The Motorsport Company Limited. This is a departure from the Financial Reporting Standard No. 37 "Consolidating Investments in Subsidiaries", as these entities are controlled entities under the scope of the standard and therefore should be consolidated. The financial effect of this departure has not been quantified "

[markec]

Unfortunately Richard, I think Motor Sport New Zealand is fundamentally flawed, why should the situation of commercialism got as far as it has.It would seem the auditors have not done their job properly either.