The State of NZ Motorsport.

[RogerH]

A couple of points :

I understand that the numbers quoted in Chris Read's post (from the HRC newsletter) are pretty accurate and indicative of the situation. The only question is that the 2021 individual drivers running at the HRC events (primarily at HD but also at Pukekohe) may not be all from Auckland - however I think the vast majority of them would be Auckland based.

With my mate Racer Rog - the "why don't you put your name forward" is a hardy annual response to criticism of the MSNZ structure. From my experience with MSNZ Conference there is a degree of parochial voting and with Auckland clubs having around a quarter of the votes it is pretty hard to get onto the MSNZ Executive. Even if you do get on you are just one of six and getting any traction for change is nigh well impossible. Last year Auckland candidates stood for the Executive and the Historic Commission and didn't even get close to getting elected. Also, its not whether there are "enough" Aucklanders on the Executive - there aren't any and it has been that way for over 10 years. I wonder what the reaction would have been if, for whatever reason, there had ben no Executive member from the Mainland for ten years.

I was fortunate to be able to run at both the South Island VCC events (at Ruapuna and Teretonga) and at the Roycroft meeting at Hampton Downs. I don't think the issue is how well the meetings were run but what sort of cars ran under the VCC banner at each of the meetings. Firstly, the Roycroft meeting was pure VCC while the South Island ones were VCC included as part of a general meeting. The issue that I noticed was that the Roycroft cars seemed true to the VCC spirit in the way they were configured and presented. With the South Island VCC grids there were a number of cars that would never have had a look in at being accepted at the Roycroft meeting primarily due to "modern" improvements. There seems to be a different view between the two groups as to what constitutes a complying VCC car.

[Racer Rog]

Whoa!!! you guys don't sleep! well there are lies, damm lies and then there are statistics, the numbers will only mean something if you can say where the people entered come from and how many events are entered and then I think you may be surprised, but in saying that, overall I think about 45% of licence holders are active in H & C racing, but as I have said before democracy comes in many forms and you can only please some of the people some of the time.there will always be some one pissed off that's a fact of life.You are right about how the VCC run their meetings north and south, they are not on the same page, both cars involved in the incedent would not comply, in fact one car wasn't allowed to compete in VCC North Island events.
The Pre 1960 rule is a international one is is in line with FIA policy which the VCC is a party to, but as I said a deal was done that would allow members of the VCC to race in the correct class with the need to belong to a MotorSport NZ club, they decided not to honour that agreement for reasons unknown.
MotorSport NZ has many faults, but has many good points as well, and one of these is the training that it puts its officials through, and has procedures to follow, and this ongoing training cost a lot of money, this is one of the reasons why our licences cost what they do, and really the VCC ride on the coat tails of all that training that we are paying for, in fact the VCC is represented on the FIA by MotorSport NZ, and their President has said that that motor sport represents only a small fraction of what they do so they are not that interested, they do have a very nice magazine, that I buy all of the time so that's a plus from me, but I don't think they understand what can happen when it all goes pear shaped, and what costs are involved and the disputation of peoples lives, the lengths that the Police will go to, when it does go all wrong, the days of racing in a paddock, I'm afraid are long gone, without a written up procedure, and adherence to that procedure.
Roger

[Racer Rog]

Whoa!!! you guys don't sleep! well there are lies, damm lies and then there are statistics, the numbers will only mean something if you can say where the people entered come from and how many events are entered and then I think you may be surprised, but in saying that, overall I think about 45% of licence holders are active in H & C racing, but as I have said before democracy comes in many forms and you can only please some of the people some of the time.there will always be some one pissed off that's a fact of life.You are right about how the VCC run their meetings north and south, they are not on the same page, both cars involved in the incedent would not comply, in fact one car wasn't allowed to compete in VCC North Island events.
The Pre 1960 rule is a international one is is in line with FIA policy which the VCC is a party to, but as I said a deal was done that would allow members of the VCC to race in the correct class without the need to belong to a MotorSport NZ club, they decided not to honour that agreement for reasons unknown.
MotorSport NZ has many faults, but has many good points as well, and one of these is the training that it puts its officials through, and has procedures to follow, and this ongoing training cost a lot of money, this is one of the reasons why our licences cost what they do, and really the VCC ride on the coat tails of all that training that we are paying for, in fact the VCC is represented on the FIA by MotorSport NZ, and their President has said that that motor sport represents only a small fraction of what they do so they are not that interested, they do have a very nice magazine, that I buy all of the time so that's a plus from me, but I don't think they understand what can happen when it all goes pear shaped, and what costs are involved and the disputation of peoples lives, the lengths that the Police will go to, when it does go all wrong, the days of racing in a paddock, I'm afraid are long gone, without a written up procedure, and adherence to that procedure.
Roger

[Racer Rog]

Sorry failed to proof read, left out one very important word, " without"

[AMCO72]

Some extraordinary revelations on this thread regarding the VCC, and it's ability or otherwise of organizing a race meeting. To a casual observer, me, the Roycroft meeting seemed to run extremely well, and yet we are hearing that all was not what it seemed behind closed doors. The comment was made that they, Waitemata branch, are new to motorsport and that they have a lot to learn, and but for some timely intervention, these meetings might not have taken place. Amazing! Also that the VCC are not experienced in speed events that only form a very small part of what the VCC is all about. Ok, but there are some very experienced VCC members involved in motorsport, and they should be able to steer people in the right direction.

It surprises me that the South Island clubs are even more inept at running these events, or is it that they are a bit more relaxed as to what participates. When grids are small there is a tendancy for promoters to allow stuff to race that perhaps shouldn't, and the recent example of an 800 hp Porsche racing in the same class as Bernie Hines is ridiculous. Actually I dont know what satisfaction the Porsche driver got from racing with an old Mini, bugger-all I would have said. When we did the South Island tour last year, we were very surprised at the machinery that was in our 'class' but as the grids were so small, the organisers lumped us all together. Nothing worse than a grid of ten cars. I actually didn't care, as I raced with stuff I wouldn't normally, but certainly not an 800 hp Porsche!!!

Oldfart has been doing his best to get some enthusiasm for some pre 60 saloons, which as someone said are notable by their absence, but he has also said that he does not want to see Anglias and Minis in this class, because in his words, they would clean up. He is probably right, as it is very easy to put 'modern' stuff into both of these cars without in any way altering their looks. I would love to get the MG 1300 back on the track, but it doesn't look as though it's going to happen. I could theoretically stuff a very potent engine in the car, adjust the suspension a bit, and have a mighty quick machine.....we have the technology, but it's not going to happen. Same with an Anglia.

Would be nice to see a grid of proper VCC cars, that are in the spirit of the VCC, as was the entry at the Roycroft meeting, at a regular MSNZ meeting, but would the VCC cars then have to comply with MSNZ rules rather than the VCC rules, especially as regards seatbelts and roll-frames. I dont know, it all seems a balls-up to me, and there are a lot of disaffected members throughout the country that have just said to themselves.....stuff it, I'm not going there, and park their cars up, where someone in the future is going to find them tucked away in a shed and claim them as 'barn-finds'.

[Racer Rog]

AMCO72, I think that you are right, both Roger H and myself, along with others would like to see this sorted, and I think the ball lies with the VCC, but as some people would say, I'm biased, but not in the way a lot would think, a true VCC field is what I'm interested to see, if they wish to race other cars, there are fields out there to cater for them.
As a committee member for the ENZED Historic and Classic meeting, we try to do the best we can, when placing cars in grids, and we do take into account the driver, car and speed, and so try and put like with like, eg Formula Juniors with NZGP cars, and that went very well, unforgettably the one star driver for Formula Junior was unable to attend, but Nigel Russell said it was he would beat him, but Roger H has promised a return match!, For our meeting next year, it is planed to have between 20 and 30 formula Juniors on the grid, and depending on the final numbers, the same grid match with the NZGP cars will happen, but if we get enough of them they will have their own grid, we also have invited the Porsche Club for a stand alone grid, and Dale is trying to get his guys down as well, the meeting we put on at Levels is a top meeting, and we endeavour to place a great social emphases on it with the cars as the stars, and I think we get about 85% of it right, and the meaning to that is there is no perfect meeting, but we are aiming for it, but most go away with a smile on their faces.
Roger

[jim short]

Good to see common sense at last

[crunch]

Would be nice to see a grid of proper VCC cars, that are in the spirit of the VCC, as was the entry at the Roycroft meeting, at a regular MSNZ meeting

Could not agree more! That would be fantastic and after all; I assume what we all want.

[ERC]

Would be nice to see a grid of proper VCC cars, that are in the spirit of the VCC, as was the entry at the Roycroft meeting, at a regular MSNZ meeting

Could not agree more! That would be fantastic and after all, I assume what we all want.

Great! We are running a one day meeting the Sunday after Roycroft next year, also at Hampton Downs. I am happy to offer the VCC a grid if they are interested and as long as there are no MSNZ issues. I don't want to devalue the Roycroft in any way at all but my thinking is that if we can get more South Island cars up to Roycroft, maybe they would consider it more worthwhile staying for the week.

Maybe this should be a separate thread... I'll go ahead and repeat this message in a new thread.