Cost is a huge factor, I was shocked at the ticket price for the Leadfoot Festival for instance...I'm used to trudging through stages and watching for stuff all. As for Playstation I am getting pretty good at Gran Turismo 5 and I don't owe any vital organs to a panel beater or engine builder !!
PaulieG i totally agree with your options especially about motorsport fraternities working together we also have to remember that Timaru & Teretonga are also NZ race tracks. It may be more expensive more competitors to travel to this tracks but they are an important part of nz motorsport and always draw good crowds to there meetings.
Timaru and Teretonga would definately be up there. What really bugs me is the lack of consistency within NZ Motorsport. If you look at the Honda Cup or BMW Series, they are built to last, unlike the Swift and Mini series which disheartens people as they invest 40-50k in a car to have it ruled obsolete two seasons later to be replaced by the "next affordable series" Maybe an allcomers series would be the go? Even bringing back the SS2000 series would mean the average punter could go along to a track and see some good reason and the competitors would have immense fun. I know we have to progress in the sport, but we dont have to keep up with the rest of the world as far as club events go. Watching Top Gear on Sunday night, they had an absolute ball for less than a set of golf clubs! And that wasnt just the entry fees either!Originally Posted by logy22
This came though today via MSNZ's April E-News, we all have great ideas and some have been bandied about on this post, SO here's your chance to do something about it!! Hmmm anyone willing to step up?
Dear Member
April has marked the conclusion and beginning of various championships and series on circuits and roads around the country. Wellington Car Club hosted the final round of the National Hill Climb Championships and the locals put up a strong performance against the Championship contenders. Congratulations to Sloan and Taran Cox, who are the 2012 National Hill Climb champions.
The Independent Race Classes (IRC) finished their season at Taupo. It was great to see the strength and support of the fields in all ten classes. Congratulations to those that won their respective classes.
Shorter days mark the beginning of the rally season and the Brother International Rally of Whangarei highlighted some fresh young talent. Mixing it with the big boys, 19-year-old Alex Kelsey, in a Group A 4WD, became the youngest-ever competitor to win an NZRC Round. The rule change, which allows Group A cars to contest the NZRC, I'm sure will be watched with interest by many.
Next month sees our AGCM being held in Auckland. As a democratic organisation, it is critical that we have consistent and fresh representation. I am regularly reminded of members' concerns regarding perceived bias and lack of performance, so it is disappointing only a handful of nominees have put their hand up for election.
I realise that people lead busy lives, but please bear in mind that most MSNZ representatives volunteer their time and do the best they can by the organisation and its members. If you feel change is needed, you have to put yourself in a position to facilitate it; otherwise, be grateful for those who do commit to furthering our sport. I look forward to catching up with those of you who are able to attend the AGCM this year, celebrating our champions and paving the way for the sport in 2012/13.
Shayne Harris, President
So good on TACCOC taking the initiative!! my take of adding different class's/vehicles, SS2000, Honda Cup, etc and Historic/Classic's at Tier 1 meetings a tough call, you can't have the so called Tier 1 premier events been watered down with vehicles/class's that have an uneven performance level(Muscle cars, pre 65, GT1, NZGT) due to the nature of the different vehicle types and also ones financial ability to out "Money" the other racers. I too find Swift and Mini's boring but these are vehicles that are available NEW from the dealer today, with an equal performance level(suppose to be) hence show casing the drivers ability, particularly the young up and coming drivers without millionaire dad souping it up to gain that unfair advantage for little Johnny(hopefully). Most new cars don't impress me today at all, but in modern Motorsport this is "all we have" that's why the premier big bucks class's have to go the way of the "Car of tomorrow" and "Supertourers" to level the playing field, although boring but not always!! NASCAR have proved this by taking away the emphasis from the vehicle and putting it onto the driver/team, a NASCAR is just a bunch of pipes, wheels, lift of body, same engine, etc(you guys know what i mean) but look at the crowd they pull, and just like the V8 Supercars, anyone that thinks its a Holden or Ford winning this weekend is dreaming, its the best team and driver that's got there shit together, but they do put on a show. Now here's a thought for us diehards, maybe a supertourer but with old school bodywork, hell atleast they'd LOOK great, XY Falcon, HK Monaro, Camaro, Mustang, yeah that'll work, now wouldn't that be COOL!!
But really as for answer's, hell i don't know!! I'll just stick to Classic/Historic racing for FUN ONLY, and even that's bad enough these days!! and as for Cost's/Money, etc? people will always spend what they think is rite for "them" depending on ones financial wealth, what may seem cheap to one person is expensive to another and it must be true because were/they're still out there doing it while other country's are going broke. I personally think were all quite lucky in this country when it comes to Motorsport, i've just had an American mate out for Beach Hop and Wanaka Air show, he doesn't believe we only have 4.5M people, he thinks it more like 40.5M as to him everyone seems to own a race car, a classic, a Air Plane, race tracks everywhere, etc? interesting observation but i have corrected him.
There you go, Dales thoughts of the day
Dale Mathers
Last edited by Kiwiboss; 04-19-2012 at 10:30 AM.
Interesting debate.
A few observations. The Hawkes Bay Car Club set up a "BOS" class some years ago. I believe credit for creating this class should actualy go to the Manawatu CC. BOS is an acronym for Bucket Of Shit. Basically regs said you had to race a car which cost less than $250. This was later raised to $500 (thats inflation). For several years the class was huge in both Clubs-in the case of the HBCC we were regularly getting 20 or more entries in the BOS class and 30 entries in total.ie 2/3rds of he entries were BOS cars. The past 2 seasons we had 1 BOS car! It is hard to imagine a cheaper form of motorsport. Yet it is not well supported. So we can't blame cost for the low number of entries.
A very interesting read. I too am one of the younger followers on the forum.
As has been discussed previously the current top level motorsport in NZ isn’t very entertaining. Whilst I had high hopes for super tourers and still think it’s a superb class and a much needed breath of fresh air and technology, it still needs some tweaking to make me want to part with money to watch after what I have seen on the TV. I follow it but only because at the moment its the best of the rest.
For me it’s the lack of variety. Unless you like Holden’s or Fords & V8's there isn’t something to cater for your needs. Whilst I don’t mind Fords, Holden's and V8's & appreciate any race car I’m passionate about other manufacturers and engines. So therefore I am not catered for. There is nothing for me to get excited about other than the driver which I don’t care what he drivers. I can’t really tell the difference between the two in the SuperTourers anyway. Nor does it make me want to go and buy one on Monday.
I enjoy the classic racing for a number of reasons and hence why I run my car at & follow those types of meetings/classes. There is variety. There are different cars and engines in the field. This also makes for entertaining racing. Plus it’s the cars and drivers I remember watching when I was young and the way the cars moved around etc. The likes of muscle car masters & Historic muscle cars & Central muscle cars solve this with the tyres etc which has worked. It’s just like classic rally cars vs. the current 4wd. The top cars are so perfect it’s boring, but seeing a BDA escort at full lock doing 9,000rpm is far more entertaining. The crowds come for the muscle cars etc we all know that so that formula works right?
I don’t think there is anyone amongst us that didn’t like the giant killing performance of Fogg in the Mini. It was entertaining because where one car was weak the other was strong, which meant the cars passed etc. I couldn’t wait to see where he was each lap. With the Supertourers yes the cars are equal but once you get into the lead it seems very difficult to get by. How long before we see DRS or a KERS system to make passing more feasible.
For me the glory days were the Group C & A cars (hence why I own one). You had 4, 6 & 8 cylinders, turbo’s and rotaries all in the same field. Different rounds suited different cars and again one was faster in the corners/braking the others in a straight line. You had staunch followers of the different brands which meant they were passionate fans.
I like Dale Matthers suggestion of the SuperTourer formula with old body work. We all like the old cars a common chassis beneath that you bolt your bodywork to would be great.
I also partake in some of the 4 & Rotary events. Some won’t be familiar as its not there scene (which thank god is why we are all different). However the crowd numbers leave any IRC or tier 2 or NZFMR meeting I have attended for dead. They all like the old cars so it’s not like the youth aren’t interested. So the youth do like motorsport but obviously there isn’t currently anything they want to watch. So how does one change that?
As others have stated when I’m the age of my dad taking my kids to the racing what will we be watching at the classics? I have great pleasure going to the meetings with my Dad having him tell me about the old Custaxie or Jim Richard’s old escort at Bay Park & the Morrari etc. How anyone can get excited about a Suzuki swift, you sometimes wonder if they are on the warm-up lap as the speed & sound doesn’t seem to change.
ROTATN........welcome to your first post on the RS, BUT how dare you call the Amco Mini 'WEAK'. Well, as the weekend went on it turned out to be a bit weak, in certain parts. But you are right, the crowd loves a David and Goliath act, small HP v's Big HP. The Mini has serious HP, for a Mini using Mini components; ie not twin cam heads etc. We have a little way to go to get some reliability,as it is now pushing out over 150 HP and the attendant HEAT has got to be got rid of. We think we have a good, ie not weak, head gasket now, and with a bit of attention to the cooling we should be OK. Thinking that a 50 year old Cooper S radiator was going to do the trick, well we must have been dreaming. That is a pretty special little engine it has in it, and with a decent driver behind the wheel, in other words, NOT Grandpa, it can show the way to a lot of the big HP cars. A lot of this is down to handling/road-holding, and being small and chuckable. I'm dam sure I wouldn't like to swing those big Mustangs and Camaros round the track, especially when it's wet. You are right that we need races with a variety of cars competing together, and that is why Dales HMC class does so well......and it will only get better.
I didn't think Cooper S radiators were that efficient back in the 60's with almost standard power.It's an area that has been neglected/overlooked since the sport started,now trying to get enough air into the radiator is a challenge.
Newbie here (joined today!) - but I believe that an overhaul of MSNZ's promotion and handling of tier 1 is overdue. To push onto free to air TV, grids of 10/12 cars and promote this as "Tier 1", it is no wonder that spectators stay away.
Logic suggests that if that is Tier1 and the cream of NZ Motorsport, then by default, all other meetings will be of lesser interest to the paying spectator.
Those involved at Classic & Historic level know full well that entries of 250+ at Classic events at both Pukekohe and Hampton Downs plus Manfield in the North island, are now the norm.
Even a one day Classic Club meeting has more race entries than tier one - and the racing is often better (variety, speed, drama etc).
But what representation do the 250+ drivers get at conference? Maybe 1 vote from TACCOC, 1 from HRC, 1 from BMW (who represent road cars as well as racecars, as do Alfa and MG).
No wonder the north cannot get an adequate representation, as the sheer number of southern clubs and those with zero interest in racing, have an equal vote, yet may have no idea of the issues facing the active drivers who line MSNZs coffers each weekend.
Even a small club meeting with a total of 90 entries a few weeks ago sent a cheque to MSNZ for $2,400. For what? The larger local classic meetings must therefore be sending a cheque for well over $5000. Minimal representation. Yet a club with a dozen members - none of whom are regular racers, gets the same voting power as say BMW with 150 racers. Even worse is that other long running series such as Arrow Wheels and AES, (also I believe with well over 100 drivers), get zero representation! Crazy and totally undemocratic.
Last edited by screwdriver; 04-17-2012 at 07:45 AM.
In reply to Screwdriver
Put your name where your mouth is, you are Auckland, do you belong to a Club? the AGM is in Auckland, come along and with your clubs support, you will have speaking rights, and you can put your case, on what ever you like, I have attended for many years, and have managed to be heard ( because I'm louder than most), come along to H & C meeting, support Roger Herricks motion through your club, and tell the top table just where you think they are going wrong ( and in some cases they are) but if people don't go and put their 2 cents forward, it just remains same ole same ole so while people on this tread have been moaning about lack of representation in the dorkland region, sorry Auckland region, the AGM is on your door step, make sure you attend.
Roger
Thanks "Racer Rog" for the support but just to avoid confusion, I (Roger Herrick) am not "Racer Rog" - I'm "RogerH" - so I'm not beating my own drum. Also, the remit is not actually mine but a remit from TACCOC - I'm a committee member of TACCOC and had some involvement in drawing up the remits.
Any support at the MSNZ Council meeting next month would be greatly appreciated by TACCOC.
Dorkland,sorry dude you just lost me with that.....
Not all MNZ is a problem.
agreed TMC is a problem.
A lot of barrows being pushed in this thread and general criticism's when specific issues are the problem.
sorry to say after a lifetime in this sport that i dont see much change happening in this fashion.
Motorsport NZ Media Release
19 April 2012
New direction for MotorSport NZ’s promotion company
There will be a new approach to the promotion of premier race meetings in 2012. A new name – MotorSport Promotions Limited – a new board and some new faces will complement a raft of other changes for premier classes in the next Championship season.
MotorSport New Zealand has announced a new six-member board as part of a plan to revitalise the promotion of the premier race season in 2012. The appointments supplement existing board members Bill Brown, representing circuit interests, Auckland businessman Shane McKillen and CEO Martin Fine.
Stepping up to lead the charge are Toyota New Zealand’s general manager of finance John Fowke, South Island businessman and motorsport identity Ian (Inky) Tulloch and David Dovey, current president of the IRC, the independent race class series which has supported both the premier series and Toyota International Series this year. Additional specialist appointments are also expected to be made.
“The move to widen the board is a conscious effort to include more stakeholders in the business of promoting the premier end of the sport,” MotorSport President Shayne Harris said in announcing the appointments. “Having the support of key stakeholders like the Toyota Racing Series and NZV8 Championship sends a clear signal to competitors and sponsors alike that the promotions company remains a vital link in creating a real place to showcase the sport at its most competitive level.”
“Careers are made from winning New Zealand Championships and New Zealand is fortunate to have some of the best trophies in its trophy cabinet, including the GP title and the coveted Gold Stars,” he said.
The appointment of the IRC coordinator means closer ties to many of the other promotable and growing categories. “There is a lot of synergy between our respective series,” said Dovey. “This tie-up will help the company offer IRC classes an opportunity to step up to the main game, while supplying additional classes at some championship meetings. It also gives us access to promotional expertise at some of our meetings,” he said.
A new role of marketing manager for the V8 category has also been created, with long-time motorsport marketing guru Brian Lawrence joining the team from Australia.
“This restructure gives us a good opportunity to evaluate our business, access some new talent and harness some new technology,” said Fine. “Motorsport isn’t just about cars racing on circuits; people want to be entertained both on and off track. The opportunity to fill our programmes with a great cross-section of motorsport will satisfy the needs of the true petrolhead, but at the same time we will be offering great entertainment for families in the areas around New Zealand where our shareholding circuits are operating,” he said.
Further announcements are expected following the first board meeting later this month.
-ENDS-
From: MotorSport New Zealand
PO Box 9368
Wellington
Contact: Shayne Harris
0274438455
This does not surprise me, Shane is slippery as a eel in a bucket of snot, but this should not change the game plan, its just rearranging the deck chairs on the Tatanic
Roger
Great to see Brian Lawrence coming back with some influence on the future of New Zealand motorsport.
Good luck Brian, from a distance - Grant Ellwood, Virginia, USA
In other forums I post as "Noble Kiwi", trusting that this title will be read and understood on the basis of the applicable phonetics. Furthermore, I can provide ample evidence to the effect that I know my way around when it comes to commerce and the business sector.
I state as a matter of fact, that a press/media release as such, amounts to the excretion of a carefully contrived measure of bovine manure.
As I see it the individual sportsmen involved in NZ motor sport by default, are paying for and even worse are indemnifying the cost of promoting of a commercial product.
Trevor.
Last edited by Trevor Sheffield; 04-20-2012 at 04:33 AM. Reason: Addition
Goodness me Mr Trevor Sheffield. Fancy you posting on a Forum under a pseudonym. After your outburst on the 'username' thread, post 15, I am beginning to think that you may be full of "bovine manure", and not necessarily "carefully contrived". And as post 96 on this thread is' so subtle that it has gone completely over my head', could you please explain the 'applicable phonetics' in the pseudonym 'Noble Kiwi'.
Shayne,
Am I correct in presuming that Brian Lawrence's appointment will just add further costs to motorsport competitors in NZ.
No disrespect to either of you.
Regards,
Russ Cunningham
Unfortunately, I will be overseas otherwise I would have done! Last year, I even booked and paid for a flight to conference for the Classic & Historic workshop, but having been told earlier the scheduled time, it was changed to a later time and it then wasnt worth it for 30 minutes, before catching my flight back and before heading overseas again the following day.
As it happens I belong to a club with a large membership and that means that regardless of my opinions, the club representative is no doubt guided by a committee and cannot therefore represent each member.
Motorsport: New body has teething issue
Herald on Sunday By Paul Lewis
5:30 AM Sunday Apr 22, 2012
Moves from within its membership to turn MotorSport New Zealand into an entity which has administrative and regulatory functions but no commercial interests in the sport face a difficult birth, judging by MSNZ's latest move.
An announcement on Thursday revealed the formation of a new motor racing body, called MotorSport Promotions Ltd, tasked with promoting premier race meetings this year.
Its advent comes as car club members of MSNZ are tabling a remit at next month's annual general meeting calling on MSNZ to shed its commercial interests, run through companies in which it has majority shareholding - The MotorSport Company (TMC) and Rally of New Zealand Ltd (RNZ).
The new body will take over the sport's promotional duties. MSNZ is effectively owned by its members - the scores of car clubs around the country who pay about $1m a year in fees - and sources within the sport detailed to the Herald on Sunday last week that there was growing discontent at the way MSNZ and TMC manage the sport. Complaints were made about a lack of transparency and suspicions about salaries being paid to key people as well as travel, entertainment and general expenses.
The move to shift the parent body away from commercial interests in the sport includes the reasoning that, as MSNZ Inc is a non-profit organisation, it is unable to obtain any financial benefits from the promotion companies.
"Essentially, MSNZ's involvement in TMC and RNZ has no financial benefits for member clubs but exposes them to significant risk should either TMC or RNZ have financial difficulties. Both TMC and RNZ are operating in an environment where financial adversity is a realistic prospect," says the remit to be debated at the AGM. "Additionally, it is considered that it is wrong in principle that a regulatory and administrative body should have commercial interests in the activities that it is regulating and administering. Such a commercial involvement creates the potential for conflicts of interest."
However, with the formation of MotorSport Promotions Ltd, MSNZ seems to be heading off such moves and persisting with its commercial operations. The new body has a six-member board which includes the current CEO of TMC, Martin Fine, existing board members Bill Brown and Auckland businessman Shane McKillen. Also involved are Toyota New Zealand's general manager of finance, John Fowke, motor racing identity Inky Tulloch and David Dovey.
"The move to widen the board is a conscious effort to include more stakeholders in the business of promoting the premier end of the sport," MSNZ president Shayne Harris said. "Having the support of key stakeholders like the Toyota Racing Series and NZV8 Championship sends a clear signal to competitors and sponsors that the promotions company remains a vital link in creating a real place to showcase the sport at its most competitive level."
"This restructure gives us a good opportunity to evaluate our business, access some new talent and harness some new technology," said Fine. "Motorsport isn't just about cars racing on circuits; people want to be entertained both on and off track."
However, a cross-section of those opposed to MSNZ's commercial functions remained committed to change, saying the new body was the old one in different clothes. One said: "You can put lipstick on a pig but, at the end of the day, it is still a pig."
By Paul Lewis | Email Paul
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