The State of NZ Motorsport.

[Trevor Sheffield]

Thanks Roger,

I see that unfortunately it is not necessary for MSNZ to use Clause 19,1 in support of the matter under consideration. Clauses 4.1, 4.11, and especially 4.15 provide an open cheque book. The constitution provides the individuals who finance the organisation, no protection whatsoever against the actions of the executive, who remain a law unto themselves. From a practical point of view the constitution constitutes toilet paper.

As it did 60 years ago, the key to the issue remains the MSNZ claimed exclusive representation of the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile ("FIA"). (Refer toilet paper clause 3.5.) N.B. FIA membership is limited to one National Automobile Club or Association per country. An FIA’ member’s activity must embrace the entire national territory and cover road traffic, touring, the defence of the rightful interests of users and their safety on the one hand, and motor sport on the other. Refer here. ---

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/sta...sContents.aspx

As it did 60 yrs. ago, the Automobile Association NZ (AA), in fact holds New Zealand membership within the FIA and this was somehow delegated to ANZCC which became MSNZ. Refer ---

http://www.aa.co.nz/about/the-aa/affiliations/

The first step is to establish the exactly how MSNZ legally claims and establishes their exclusive rights to represent the FIA and then, investigate how the undemocratic MSNZ, might be controlled via their overlord, the AA. Surely it is the AA siting in the driver's seat.

How is it that only a single motor sport organisation remains exclusively under the umbrella of the AA?

Trevor.

[Oldfart]

Surprisingly someone has :

Attachment 7181

And covered it with stickers! Looks more like an Indy car!

[RogerH]

My understanding Trevor, is that both the AA and MSNZ are separately affiliated to the FIA - MSNZ as the National Sporting Authority and the AA an Affiliated Club - see : http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/mem...ewZealand.aspx

I suppose the issue could be how MSNZ assumes, through it's affiliation with the FIA, that it "controls" all motor sport in NZ. I don't think this assumed monopoly would ever stand the scrutiny of the Court. There are a number of motor sport activities that give two fingers to MSNZ/FIA - the likes of stockcars, offroad racing etc. When you think about it, the FIA means very little to the average Kiwi competitor apart from some FIA generated red tape. However, it does mean that every competitor is faced with more costs through licence fees, event entries etc as MSNZ passes on the costs they incur through their connection with the FIA.

The FIA affiliation does provide the ability for MSNZ to "tax" Kiwi competitors who, for example, want to compete overseas. When I compete in Australia, MSNZ obligates me to get a Trans Tasman Visa ($256). The last couple of times I fronted up to do documentation in Australia they didn't know what it was, didn't want to see it and didn't require it! When I questioned a MSNZ head office official what I actually got for my $256, he told me that if I could afford to compete in Australia then I could afford to pay the Trans Tasman Visa fee!

[AMCO72]

So, it's almost a 'like it or lump it' situation. They have got you by the balls. If you want to compete you comply. The VCC manage it, so why not some other new club....HRC for instance.

[Chris Read]

Surprisingly someone has :

Attachment 7181

Philistine!! Definition : one who is hostile or indifferent to culture or whose interests are commonplace. At least they chromed it!

If Dave McK sees this he will recognise it as probably #2522 with whatever provenance it has today, and will be aware of my brush with the car and one Mr Cottam..... enough said eh Dave! - Chris Read-Arrowtown.

[RogerH]

You have summed it up right Gerald. However, in Australia there is quite a significant group of competitors and some track owners who have broken away from CAMS/FIA and are successfully doing their own thing.

If your car fits under the VCC category then they are an option as they are affiliated to MSNZ and FIVA. A VCC Competition Licence costs $23 and last for 5 years (a MSNZ Competition Licence costs $138 and lasts for one year). A VCC log book costs $10.22 (a MSNZ log book costs $51). No wonder MSNZ don't see "eye to eye" with VCC.

The bits of paper and issuing processes are the same but the costs are very different .................

[jim short]

I think it looks ok quite good

[Trevor Sheffield]

Roger,

Unfortunately copy and paste into my browser does not provide me with entry to the site you have specified. I have also typed it in manually without success. Please check and confirm. --- http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/mem...ewZealand.aspx is correct.

Thanks, Trevor.

[jim short]

talking about 250f

[RogerH]

Roger,

Unfortunately copy and paste into my browser does not provide me with entry to the site you have specified. I have also typed it in manually without success. Please check and confirm. --- http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/mem...ewZealand.aspx is correct.

Thanks, Trevor.

It should just link in by clicking on the web address in post #43.

I have re-listed the link which should be able to be clicked on to provide the link :

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/mem...ewZealand.aspx

Alternatively, go to the FIA web site. Click on "The FIA" (top left), click on "Member Clubs", click on "Oceania", click on "New Zealand" and you will get to the link I listed.

[AMCO72]

Has anyone got a good word to say about MSNZ? It sounds to me as though we should be giving them the one-finger salute and branching out on our own. What's to stop us?

[Russ Cunningham]

talking about 250f

Is this a statement, a question or just nonsense?

[crunch]

Has anyone got a good word to say about MSNZ? It sounds to me as though we should be giving them the one-finger salute and branching out on our own. What's to stop us?

Ah;...I do actually, and I do have some not so good ones as well.
Firstly to address the continous moans that I always see and hear on these types of forums.
1. I dont have an over-inflated ego.
2. I dont holiday at some tropical beach at MSNZ's expense
3. I dont get paid any type of directors salary/gratuity or honararium.
4. TMC THe Motorsport Company and MSNZ ARE two entirely different identities. As far as financial years are concerned, different dates is not an ideal situation for reporting at the MSNZ AGCM, but TMC does have to report to its own AGCM. This is explained every year at AGCM, but people just choose to ignore or not believe this and answers to questions they are given
5. I wont get into the whole VCC scenario, but baically some competitors like it just cause it's a "seemingly" cheaper option. Thier choice.
6. Whomever stated that MSNZ does not value Formula Toyota is blantantly ignorant or probably more to the point; just ill-formed. F/T was set up over 8 years ago as a joint project with Toyota NZ as it continuing to be treated as such with regular contact between Toyota NZ and MSNZ. Toyota NZ supported Prodrive through it's whole life and has always been a valued participant of projects such as the Motorsport Academy.


I guess with any forum, or news type site, negativity sells.
I would like details of any complaints from the previous 12 months regarding service from MSNZ, especially in the field of roll-protection or homologation or anything else that has stopped the person using the vehicle; THAT IS THE FAULT OF MSNZ.
Please email me and I will sort out and will issue any apologies required.

I wont answer slanging comments or just repeated age-old critisisms and urban myths. For instance; why would MSNZ want to take over the SFOS?????? Geez; where did that come from? MSNZ is a governance body, not a promotions one. IF SFOS asked for help; it is MSNZ 's job to help. I nearly snorted my coffee up my nose after reading that one...

As for geographical representation of the Executive...so what? Does any governance board have that as a primary reason for electing someone? I thought we elected people we thought could do the job,..it's not my fault I was born in and failed to escape from Palmerston North!
But if it is a burning issue; then for God's sake; stand for election if you come from somewhere North of real New Zealand!!
In the end; should we have equal representation from all areas geographically; or perhaps more importantly, proportional representation by numbers of members in a club. I prefer that better.

MSNZ is a tax department in essence, and we all hate the tax deptartment, especially if we dont personally see anything for our $$! So then we have to think collectively; are my $$$ helping the sport in my "area" (geographical or interest).

So moving on from that; I wont respond to any generic complaints from people who are pissed with MSNZ for whatever reason (some I am sure are justified, as I am also sure some are a chinese whisper from years ago). But I will answer any questions based on fact or about problems somebody is experiencing with the governance side of the sport.

Maybe just a rider to that is the whole constitution thing; leave that for Conference so make sure your club representative knows what your thoughts are!

Gotta go as I need an early start as I am working in the MSNZ Office all day tomorrow and its a 4 hour round trip, and I'm not getting paid.

Crunch

[DJMcD]

Oh dear, I have heard most of this over many years of involvement. Until Clubs constitutionally change the status quo nothing will change. Wrong thread I know but who was the World Champion who said, "Who the hell is MANZ, I thought they were some Australian outfit!"

[GeebeeNZ]

Crunch, As one who has served on many different motoring organisations for years and given hours of free time without anyting in the bank (like you)I agree that you dont get anything in the way of compensation for your time on the Motorsport executive but you do have a responsibilty to ensure that the stewardship of the not inconsiderable amount from members meets the current standards of the NZ Institute of Chartered Accountants.There is clearly no excuse to ignore the report of the Auditors in terms of the balance dates of TMC and fact that as MSNZ holds a 60% share the accounts should be consolidated.Your comments in (4) above are simply not acceptable and the fact that this has gone on for years is clearly an indication of the arrogance of MSNZ and the complete apathy of the bulk of the membership in things financial. Also let me assure you that the VCC option (5) is clearly not just a "seemingly" cheaper option. The bulk of the 70 odd entries in the Hampton Downs meeting next weekend are from cars that would never have competed in a MSNZ event in MSNZ's present format. Believe me there is more to it than just money.
Having read RogerH's comments, as no doubt you have, I believe they are from very intelligent people who have a deep concern for some of the current practices within MSNZ. They are not negative comments from a bunch of losers. Your Executive would do itself a service to consider them. Graeme Banks

[crunch]

Never ever would I presume anyone's comments are from a bunch of losers, and no where have I indicated that.

I too have some concern with some of the practices within the governance of MSNZ. However under the present Executive I have yet to uncover arrogance as one of them.

The TMC/MSNZ relationship is a mess. It runs a lot more than just reporting dates for auditors. What is done is legal, but perhaps not in the best spirit.

The relationship between VCC and MSNZ is semi-regular at the moment. I communicate coordialy with the President when and if it is required. We have a face-to-face meeting every year (April) where we discuss any issues of concern. This month will be no different

[crunch]

THe President has listened to the concerns of Roger H and others. He has had long discussions with them and given some undertakings as a result. I am not party to those.

Indeed these are learned gentlemen, but they are not the only intelligent people out there. Intelligent people in our sport are at all levels, and I meet and talk with them often.

Thanks for the response Graeme

[crunch]

Who was that World Champion?

...and it's MSNZ.
MANZ is the Motel Association of NZ

[RogerH]

Good to see Crunch posing on this topic - and without trying to "pee in the pocket", he is one of the MSNZ Executive that is approachable and does seem to understand that there are some shortcomings in the structure that need addressing.

One point that Crunch makes that I have an issue with is "TMC The Motorsport Company and MSNZ ARE two entirely different identities". TMC is majority (60%) owned by MSNZ and of the three TMC directors, one is a MSNZ appointee and another is an ex-officio Office Bearer of MSNZ. TMC resides in MSNZ's premises and MSNZ provides funds to TMC. The intertwining between MSNZ and TMC is extensive and they are a long way from being two entirely different entities.

Perhaps part of the problem with TMC is that MSNZ Executive fail to appreciate that having a majority shareholding in an entity (on behalf on MSNZ members) obligates MSNZ to know what is going on with TMC and to ensure that there are proper governance controls. I get the impression that MSNZ just lets TMC do what it wants to.

[Steve Holmes]

Remember, The Roaring Season is a discussion forum for motorsport history and historic racing. I've visited various discussion forums for years and I've yet to read a discussion thread on modern motorsport that doesn't get overly heated and emotional, and end up as an all-out slanging match. Rarely does anything good come from these. As long as this thread stays on topic, is fact based, and doesn't stray towards the topic of modern day motorsport, I'm happy.