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Thread: ERC Race Series - Euro Saloons & Sports

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  1. #1
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Sports cars have two seats, saloons have four - is that the problem for the 240Z?
    Yes that is a problem - the 240z is not a sport car under the FIA it is a Production Based GT car not a sports car. A sports car under the FIA is a limited number special series or purpose built race car - that is the FIA Appendix J definitions for the era the car represents. Cars like the 240z, TR's of Triumph, Corvette etc are out in the cold in NZ motorsport as they are not identified as mass produced GT cars but as these "Sport Cars" which they clearly are not specials/low built or race cars only aka a Le Manns Ford GT40 is a Sports Car as is the Nissan/Prince R380, or Porsche 917 - they are "Sports Cars" under the FIA Appendix J of the 70's and a Datsun 240z, Triumph TR7, MG, Corvettes are GT cars.

    That is a big difference in my eyes.
    Mike L


  2. #2
    Journeyman Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzeder View Post
    Yes that is a problem - the 240z is not a sport car under the FIA it is a Production Based GT car not a sports car. A sports car under the FIA is a limited number special series or purpose built race car - that is the FIA Appendix J definitions for the era the car represents. Cars like the 240z, TR's of Triumph, Corvette etc are out in the cold in NZ motorsport as they are not identified as mass produced GT cars but as these "Sport Cars" which they clearly are not specials/low built or race cars only aka a Le Manns Ford GT40 is a Sports Car as is the Nissan/Prince R380, or Porsche 917 - they are "Sports Cars" under the FIA Appendix J of the 70's and a Datsun 240z, Triumph TR7, MG, Corvettes are GT cars.

    That is a big difference in my eyes.
    Hi NZEDER
    There are several FIA Sports Car categories that range from Production Sports Cars, GTS through to Sports Racing Cars. New Zealand has never had a production sports car class, so you are correct in there. The Festival is inclusive of all sports cars in one field, but does so with a regard to the differing performance levels and on safety. Sports cars are inherently safer than single seaters in a racing situation, because they have covered wheels and therefore not the propensity to touch wheels and launch into the stratosphere!
    Once again, it is a numbers game. If we had enough production sports cars then a field could be run, but then that would disappoint other competitors in non production cars that would be turned away. Your Datsun 240Z is welcome in the Festival pre 78 race class as it is.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerT View Post
    Hi NZEDER
    New Zealand has never had a production sports car class, so you are correct in there.
    Bingo and that is why the Datsun 240z were never raced here in NZ in period - no class/grid for them. So if that is the case did the Corvette's, Triumphs TR's, MG Midgets race in NZ in period as they too are classified under the same FIA groups of Appendix J or the day.

    My car is actually a Datsun 260z - however when most think of the 260z they automatically jump to the longer wheel base 2+2 version when mine is the shorter 2 seater version (even though the log book has it down as Saloon) which was produced in smaller numbers than the 240z with only 22,000 ish of the 260z 2 seater in RHD form created over its 4 years of production. Unlike the 240z which was made over 100,000 RHD then 200,000 in LHD (then there were JDM models too) so my car is in fact rarer than a 240z but it is easier to say it is a 240z as most ID that with the 2 seater version as the 240z was only ever made as a 2 seater.
    Mike L


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nzeder View Post
    Yes that is a problem - the 240z is not a sport car under the FIA it is a Production Based GT car not a sports car. A sports car under the FIA is a limited number special series or purpose built race car - that is the FIA Appendix J definitions for the era the car represents. Cars like the 240z, TR's of Triumph, Corvette etc are out in the cold in NZ motorsport as they are not identified as mass produced GT cars but as these "Sport Cars" which they clearly are not specials/low built or race cars only aka a Le Manns Ford GT40 is a Sports Car as is the Nissan/Prince R380, or Porsche 917 - they are "Sports Cars" under the FIA Appendix J of the 70's and a Datsun 240z, Triumph TR7, MG, Corvettes are GT cars.

    That is a big difference in my eyes.
    I love the 240z, and the 2-seat 260Z. Simply beautiful cars. I can understand your enthusiasm for them, and why you're building one yourself. Your comments in an earlier post about these cars not being accepted in some classes because they're Japanese might have been the case twenty years ago, but I don't think its the case today. I remember moving back to NZ in the mid-1990s after living in the UK, where I'd attended several high-profile historic racing events, in which Japanese cars were just as welcome as anything else. I was surprised to get back to NZ and find there was still some snobishness towards Japanese cars in NZ historic racing, yet late model Porsches, replica Shelby Cobras etc were all OK. I found this strange, but I now think they're finally being appreciated for what they are. Typical New Zealand, always a little bit behind the times.

    Re racing the Z with touring car/saloon car grids, its unfortunate you have a passion for a car that doesn't easily fit in many categories. In period, the 240Z was considered a production sports car, and therefore, raced with other production sports cars. Brock Racing Enterprises ran Datsun 1600s in the SCCA Trans-Am sedan championship, and Datsun 240Zs in the SCCA C/Production sports car championship. Throughout the world the Z cars rarely raced anywhere as a touring car, because either they only had 2 seats, or their cabin size was too small to be classified a touring car. About the only sports car to make the cross-over was the Porsche 911, but this was only very briefly. The Z didn't race in NZ, Australia, the US, or the UK as a touring car. So in historic racing today, with touring car racing enjoying bigger grids than production sports car racing in most countries, racing a Z is always going to limit your options somewhat.

    Given there is growing interest in people building pre-1978 production sports cars to T&C or Schedule K rules, I’m surprised nobody has made the effort to try and round everyone up and put a grid together at the Festival. You’d have the Datsuns, Corvettes, Morgan Plus 4 and 8, Triumph TR3, Tr4, TR6, TR7, TR8, Porsche 911, Austin Healey, Lotus Elan, the numerous MG’s, etc etc. Check out the 50 car grid at the recent Phillip Island Classic: http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6356347...776.92D/View?5 And this group has an earlier cut-off date than 1978, I think its around 1970.

    Maybe food for thought further down the track?

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