what do you mean Rod? Len bought those cause the aussies said he needed them.They are a great investment in auckland infrastucture
what do you mean Rod? Len bought those cause the aussies said he needed them.They are a great investment in auckland infrastucture
First G P there.
50 years ago.
Len Brown...WELL that ONE on that boat will not be giving Len that cup thats for real.Originally Posted by 928
Does not sound like the first G P went too well.
I raced a Puke at the weekend for the first time since the "improvements".
The concrete walls were a bit daunting for the first few laps but after that they didn't seem too much of a worry (although you wouldn't want to hit them).
The new chicane on the back straight took a bit of getting use to. In a single seater it is impossible to see the apex of the first right hander - by the time you see it is too late to turn in. We found that the idea was to get on the brakes at a braking marker (with us just past the 100m board) and then pick a line on the track surface to start your turn in. It was actually quite an interesting section of the track and a pleasant change from just blasting down the straight. It did seem to mean that passing opportunities at the hairpin were reduced.
The worst thing was the bumps leading into and through turn one. These are much worse than before and our cars were really getting thrown around - bruises on my legs today where they were thrown against the spaceframe.
Wouldn't like to try it in the wet - a few guys had run in the wet recently and said they would never do it again.
The noise police were there with their dubious decibel readers and sent at least one guy packing off home.
I also raced on Puke for the first time since the changes. I ran my Trans am Camaro and the chicane wasn't a problem for that type of car although I still prefer the original layout. Of the 30 odd laps that I did none were the same through the chicane, but I guess eventually I will find a preferred line. I was on old tires that were old when I got the car about 6yrs ago. They took 3 laps in practice before they finally got some grip but in the first race because I missed practice with the class had to start from the back of the grid and by lap 4 I had been working it up faster and faster till I came out of the hairpin and noticed the back move around slightly then as I turned in to the first left hander she just kept on turning in. I had a fair wack of speed on by then so I had to jump on the picks and leave them on and just concentrate on steering angles as it spun because the wall was so close. Normally I would have been on and off the brakes as well to try and get it back facing the right way and just carry on. So I guess that is one of the aspects of the new track, anyway chucked on another set of "black vinyl" in place of the 4 flat spotted tires and finished the day off semi cautiously. The place certainly has a more corporate feel to it now but then the familiar smiling faces of the marshal's and the flaggies helped tone the apprehensions. I am from the old school and I always put my hand in a stop sign up outside the car high to show I have finished racing , have reduced speed and are returning to the pits, as I cruise back past each flag post the flaggies always give you a wave so I change my hand signal to a pointer and point it a them as I go by to show my appreciation for them and our comradery for the sport.
Last edited by George Sheweiry; 10-07-2013 at 09:54 AM.
So right about the flaggies and marshalls George, they always deserve at least a wave, they do a great job.
Now, what was the casualty rate at this meeting, a guy who is totally new to motorsport tells me it was his first time there for a look and a big car demolished itself on left 'wall' in turn one straight after starting. There used to be a big grass area there, never saw that hurt a car. After listening to the description of how it happened, may be lost traction on a 'new' bump and skewed of into wall.
Can someone who was there fill in on what happened. cheers
This guy has just bought a very nice little (quick) car and had been at Hampton on Wednesday night for a introduction to motorsport and enjoyed it. Watched sons play at Hampton on Saturday and dropped into Puke to have a look on way home on Sunday, said he spoke to a couple of guy's with similar cars and they said it was pretty bumpy around turn one.
This weekend's NZGP Classic, two day meeting, looks like now being a one day (Saturday only) meeting.
I sent a quick email out to try and get more entries and had one reply stating that although he believes his car isn't loud, he (and others with the same feeling) having been pinged, have no intention of racing again at Puke until these "dubious decibel readers" are gone. The emphasis is on dubious.
Sadly, this means that our series entries will be depleted and therefore organisers of events here need to be aware that there are drivers/cars around who have been racing for years who just will not enter.
With the ever increasing costs of running a meeting, no club outfit can run at a loss for long.
Perhaps if people had been applying the rules of Motorsport NZ and enforcing the noise emission regulations since they were first introduced back in the late 1980's early 1990's you would not be having the issues you face now. The blatant disregard for the regulations contained in the Motosport NZ manual by users of circuits has caused the issue. It has been very irresponsible.
Carlo, you may well be right, however I am sure that you are aware that, like dynamometers, all noise meters are not equal, and the method of use can give very different readings. It would seem that a number of cars which have been checked elsewhere (in some cases multiple different checks at different venues), and from what I have been told, in accordance with the manufacturers instructions, fail with the Pukekohe meters.
If that is the case, where to from there? ERC has mentioned the "dubious" Western Springs was another where cars had been checked "properly" and then get pinged?
As well as being a Clerk of Course, Steward and track inspector for Motorcycling Australia, I am also a Sound Control Officer, and the meters we use have to be calibrated at the start of each meeting, but the major factor is that we record ride-by readings at 30 metres from the track, bearing in mind that the accuracy of the readings can be influenced by concrete walls, banks, bush, trees, buildings, other noise sources and wind. I doubt there are many parts of Pukekohe that don't have at least one of those outside influences, so the readings may well be polluted. In the event of a static test, again readings must be taken where concrete, buildings, external noise, wind etc don't influence the recording, so these things have to be considered when noting results.
In MA's favour, they have decided to act early and monitor sound readings themselves, before other outside busybodies and fun police like the EPA poke their noses in and decide they'll close things down for the greater good.
Last edited by GD66; 10-22-2013 at 05:24 AM.
Good chance that all the 'new' hardware around Puke might be having an effect on the noise values recorded at recent meetings.
As GD66 states, there are number of factors that can influence readings but the test criteria including location as in the distance from the race line, height of meter above ground level, upwards inclination in degrees of the meter above horizontal and clear areas both in front of the test location and all of these behind the location are very clearly documented in the test procedures. For heavens sake you can not stand directly behind the meter or you will influence the readings, that too is spelt out.
At our circuit the club now sends it's own person to undertake the trackside testing as it has been proven by past experience that some outside hirers of the facility have not been 100% up to the task.
Then of course there are the noise emissions from the property that are monitored by the District Council, in our case there are three set test locations off the property where the council test at our expense to ensure that we do not exceed the Resource Consent. Should we continue to run without exceeding the motorsport NZ noise level of 95dba then we stay under our Council imposed limits at the property boundary and at various other off site locations.
Anyone running their car close to 95dba on a clear sunny day after a week of fine weather will be in deep trouble after overnight rain and overcast conditions as their noise will go up by around 2 to 2.5dba simply because of the moisture content of the ground and the low cloud does not allow the sound to be absorbed by the ground or disperse higher up into the atmosphere. Simple advice to all competitors, if you car exceeds 92dba, go do something about it then you will not get caught out by weather conditions. To organisers, review how you conduct the practise, be accurate in your measurements and enforce the requirements.
Good point Jack. You may remember when we extended the centre embankment and the Armco down the front straight at Timaru, we ended up getting a sound bump from cars changing gear as they came out of the corner onto the front straight and we had to narrow down the field to an area of about 70 metres in length of track from where we accepted the readings as this bump in the reading was having absolutely no effect at the property boundary or off site test areas and it was just a result of the echo effect between the embankment and the Armco of the occasional backfire during the gearshift.
noise at race tracks should be measured at the boundary of the grounds (where the general public have acess) and no where else. the reading should be averaged over the duration of the race and ALL spikes discarded. readings taken within the grounds are of no use to anyone except idiots who think they are in charge. as a spectator you paid to get in knowing that the event generated noise. should you not like the noise then leave. just my thoughts on the matter
Last edited by 928; 10-22-2013 at 03:18 AM.
Well said 928, the readings at the Springs are supposed to be that, but the council (I have been told) also require trackside, opposite the concrete wall which gives a great noise reflection!
RogerH has sent me an email that clarifies exactly what the problem is and it appears to be that MSNZ and the local council requirements as to the procedures are not aligned.
Totally agree with 928 but I question the impact the noise actually has at any given point - and the duration.
Most meetings running 8 lap races means no better than 3 races per hour. As most races (at the old Pukekohe) were only about 10 minutes long anyway, then only 50% of the hour are any cars circulating at full chat - and in scratch races, they may well be bunched at one part of the track, particularly with the smaller grids at many meetings.
If anyone has lived and worked within the Heathrow flight paths, then you'd know what real noise is!
Last week, a family member was talking about a boy band concert where even the young girls had their hands over their ears, some quite visibly suffering a degree of pain, so don't noise limits apply to concerts and other outdoor events or is MSNZ and/or the council trying to enforce a level that is just too tough?
With many cars being road cars anyway, I'd challenge that the few cars that are outside the 95Db limit have a relatively minor environmental impact, especially when famously compared to the volume of the dawn chorus, plus local lawn mowers, leaf blowers and chain saws.
If I heard the numbers correctly the highest reading at Timaru last weekend, be it Mazda RX7, V8 Touring car, Mini 7, Porsche or any other vehicle racing during the weekend was 91.2dba.
When TranZam racing was at it's peak most were running around 93dba and some were as quiet as 88dba. Adverse weather conditions did sometimes send crews into a bit of a panic as they repacked their mufflers so as to get back out onto the circuit during testing sessions.
ERC it is the attitude of people such as yourself who want to compare apples with chocolate fish as part of their argument that have caused most of the noise related issues that circuit owners now face. Get over it and comply so that we and future generations can all enjoy our sport. Stop being selfish and just get on with it, save your energy for something you can win and don't fight or create lost causes.
You do a magic job with your race series and I know that it is very disappointing when you don't get the entries you deserve but things happen for reasons rather than excuses and many competitors will use an excuse such as noise limits as an excuse when really the reason is simply that they no longer have the passion to race like they once did and the event is no longer a priority for them.
Lets trust that you get a great turnout for Saturday.
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