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Thread: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by David McKinney View Post
    I don't know how badly damaged either car was. They were reportedly destroyed in the fire, but the Lister seems to have been rebuilt in NZ. The Connaught was salvable, apart from the body. The streamliner bodywork which Paul sometimes used was somewhere else, so undamaged, and the car was rebuilt in England with that body. I was told by the owner that he was going to have it racing in 2012, but it didn't happen

    (Or were you referring to Dave Silcock?)
    Dave Silcock picked up the remains and rebuilt Lister I think they saved chassis plate for Connaught then I may be out a little

  2. #62
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    And we have complained about the paddock at Pukekohe??? Mallory Park 1970 Yes, I do have a penchant for British fibreglass cars... Note that all the other cars in the paddock were British in those days!
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    * May 2014 - I have just found that this pic has been used in an advertisement for Str8six, TVR specialists in the UK, both in print (Octane 125) and on their website...

    * January 2017, also found out that it was used on the cover of a UK TVR magazine! Now in touch with the new owner.

    Ginetta G4 behind but the rarer G21 in front. How many saw the Brit TV crime series episode (New Tricks) where Dennis Waterman raved over a crashed maroon G21, which was integral to the story?

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    First time I had seen this car - Elva Courier coupe. We saw plenty of Couriers racing in period, but not the GT. (There was a Courier for sale locally within the last couple of years.)
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    My all time favourite GT car. Only 99 built and I think I have pics of about 4 or 5 of them (two were here in the Goodwood car park, September 2009), including the blue NZ one at Ellerslie a few years back, on non-original Minilites. Note the Austin Healey 100S in the background. I think there were 5 there.
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    Connaught again - Monaco 2012.
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    Last edited by ERC; 01-22-2017 at 09:15 PM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by ERC View Post

    My all time favourite GT car. Only 99 built and I think I have pics of about 4 or 5 of them (two were here in the Goodwood car park, September 2009), including the blue NZ one at Ellerslie a few years back, on non-original Minilites. Note the Austin Healey 100S in the background. I think there were 5 there.
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    I was lucky enough to have a drive of a Gordon-Keeble a few years back - a blast up the North Western motorway. It was the ex- Sir Robertson Stewart (of PDL fame) car that he had bought new from the UK. It had slightly flared guards and Minilites that were evidently from one of the early PDL Mustangs. A lovely car but from memory a very difficult to operate handbrake tucked down the side of the passenger seat. I think they had some inherent front suspension and steering issues but there was a UK expert (Ernie Potts?) who sorted these out and sold remedial kits.

  4. #64
    [QUOTE=ERC;20292]This was taken at a Silverstone test session, probably 1976, but I am really not sure, as I do have a pic taken in 1977 at the British F1 GP, so it might even be early 1977. Accurately dating pics from sessions like this is almost impossible as I wasn't keeping a diary from 1970 to 1990!

    Attachment 13473

    If I have done this right, only the photo of the 1976 DeCadenet Lola based Le Mans car will remain!

    Photo is us testing various bodywork variations before the 1976 Le Mans race which is of course in June, so the photo will date from around April or May 1976. The final bodywork for that year was the long tail/ short nose variation with the wing mounted much lower than shown but incorporating those high cockpit sides.
    Frankly the car was a bit of a pig but after all but one (the winning one) works Martini Porsches failing, all the works Renaults burning pistons and with our DFV engined car stopping only for scheduled stops (and going twice the distance between fuel stops than the turbos) we bought the old girl in 3rd overall in 1976.
    Last edited by Howard Wood; 11-12-2012 at 01:16 AM.

  5. #65
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    Thanks so much Howard. Even if I take a pot at the month, at least the year is correct, which I suppose is the critical thing for my filing system. Bearing in mind the year, I think I would probably have been between home and Heathrow, where I would have been chauffeuring one of my bosses, so my transport could have been a 1968 Rolls Silver Shadow, a 1970 Daimler Sovereign or their favourite car to be driven in, an old Austin 1800 (landcrab), bought cheaply at auction!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
    It was the ex- Sir Robertson Stewart (of PDL fame) car that he had bought new from the UK. It had slightly flared guards and Minilites that were evidently from one of the early PDL Mustangs. A lovely car but from memory a very difficult to operate handbrake tucked down the side of the passenger seat.
    That is the car that was at Ellerslie Roger. It was for sale at a place just behind the Vic market and I remember going in to see it and from memory, it wasn't a bad price. (Out of my price range though.) I do remember asking if the original wheels were available, but the salesman didn't know. I think it is probably one of the few cars that look far worse with Minillites than better.

    I do have a B & W publicity shot of the interior that Dad's company did. Quite why they were involved, I really don't know.

  7. #67
    These are just amazing photos Ray, keep them coming, I'm really enjoying them. The earlier GT40 shot alone was just brilliant. I love the DeCadenet test photo.

  8. #68
    [QUOTE=Howard Wood;20333]
    Quote Originally Posted by ERC View Post
    This was taken at a Silverstone test session, probably 1976, but I am really not sure, as I do have a pic taken in 1977 at the British F1 GP, so it might even be early 1977. Accurately dating pics from sessions like this is almost impossible as I wasn't keeping a diary from 1970 to 1990!

    Attachment 13473

    If I have done this right, only the photo of the 1976 DeCadenet Lola based Le Mans car will remain!

    Photo is us testing various bodywork variations before the 1976 Le Mans race which is of course in June, so the photo will date from around April or May 1976. The final bodywork for that year was the long tail/ short nose variation with the wing mounted much lower than shown but incorporating those high cockpit sides.
    Frankly the car was a bit of a pig but after all but one (the winning one) works Martini Porsches failing, all the works Renaults burning pistons and with our DFV engined car stopping only for scheduled stops (and going twice the distance between fuel stops than the turbos) we bought the old girl in 3rd overall in 1976.
    Howard, what was the handling like on this car? Its very chunky looking, with quite a blunt nose. But my limited understanding of aerodynamics suggests this should give it quite good downforce at the front?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by ERC View Post
    And we have complained about the paddock at Pukekohe??? Mallory Park 1970 Yes, I do have a penchant for British fibreglass cars... Note that all the other cars in the paddock were British in those days!
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    For several years I was a huge enthusiasts of early TVRs. This looks like a Vixen? Its pretty staunch looking with its flared guards and wide wheels, I love it.

  10. #70
    [QUOTE=Steve Holmes;20352]
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Wood View Post

    Howard, what was the handling like on this car? Its very chunky looking, with quite a blunt nose. But my limited understanding of aerodynamics suggests this should give it quite good downforce at the front?
    Enduro racing back then was different, outright pace was less important and there was a huge difference between qualifying pace and race pace. During the race we had a target number of laps per hour and pretty much ignored what the works teams were doing, not that we could do much anyway. The limiting factor for the turbo cars were the regulations covering fuel tank size and no fuel stops in the first 20 minutes which effectively prevented them having the wick turned up too far in race mode. Even so one of the Martini Porsche works cars ran out of fuel out on the track after 19 minutes so that was one down! No safety car to get the thing back to the pits then.

    So the answer to your question is the handling was pretty poor, the car really was maximized to get down the Mulsanne as fast as possible and be simple, strong and robust enough to run at a constant pace for the whole 24 hours. Real Tortoise and the Hare stuff.

    The '77 car which John and I built and was a new design only using some Lola components like uprights etc was a much better car all round and in fact won an endurance race at Silverston later in its career whereas this car's lap times anywhere other than Le Mans were real slow. Incidentally that short nose was all the rage at the time but the '77 car had a much longer nose, long tail and the wing lower than the engine cover and was much better through the air with no reduction in downforce.

    ps.
    Exactly as displayed in your next photo Ray, this is indeed the '77 car, compare the nose profile with the '76 car and the rear wing almost invisible behind the bodywork. We discovered in the wind tunnel that there was no reduction in downforce but a considerable reduction in drag with the wing there. Probably only the upper surface of the wing was doing any work as there would be little if any true laminar flow but lots of disturbed air tumbling off the engine cover.
    Last edited by Howard Wood; 11-13-2012 at 03:55 AM. Reason: subsequent photo posted

  11. #71
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    Yes, a Moke, but to be fair, it was entered in the sports car class as the "Fairley Spoke", built I believe by Reg Phillips, but a very apt steed for the pilot of the day - BBC motorsport commentator Raymond Baxter, (also driven by his son that day) at Prescott, May 1971.

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    Another one for Howard! Probably at the 1977 British GP - but I don't seem to have the programme for that one either.

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    The Terrapin, in one of its later incarnations driven by its designer and builder , Alan Staniforth. Not sure of the date but definitely at Curborough.

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    A bit of an interesting one this. Donington again with the Ginetta G21 (see later note - this should be G10) in the background and certainly after May 1977, but not too long after judging by the state of the paddock. This particular Lotus 11 GT was I believe finished off, not by Lotus, but by Rod Leach of "Nostalgia" well known for his AC Cobra's. The Ginetta G21 (G10) was also his I think, as it is in one of my pics of the opening Donington meeting, next to the Cobra.

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    Last edited by ERC; 09-09-2015 at 06:28 AM.

  12. #72
    Ray, I'm no expert on Ginetta's, but could that maroon #20 car in the background in your last post possibly be one of the very rare Ford V8 powered G10s?

    That Lotus is incredible. Is the body bare aluminium?

  13. #73
    [QUOTE=Howard Wood;20366]
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Holmes View Post

    Enduro racing back then was different, outright pace was less important and there was a huge difference between qualifying pace and race pace. During the race we had a target number of laps per hour and pretty much ignored what the works teams were doing, not that we could do much anyway. The limiting factor for the turbo cars were the regulations covering fuel tank size and no fuel stops in the first 20 minutes which effectively prevented them having the wick turned up too far in race mode. Even so one of the Martini Porsche works cars ran out of fuel out on the track after 19 minutes so that was one down! No safety car to get the thing back to the pits then.

    So the answer to your question is the handling was pretty poor, the car really was maximized to get down the Mulsanne as fast as possible and be simple, strong and robust enough to run at a constant pace for the whole 24 hours. Real Tortoise and the Hare stuff.

    The '77 car which John and I built and was a new design only using some Lola components like uprights etc was a much better car all round and in fact won an endurance race at Silverston later in its career whereas this car's lap times anywhere other than Le Mans were real slow. Incidentally that short nose was all the rage at the time but the '77 car had a much longer nose, long tail and the wing lower than the engine cover and was much better through the air with no reduction in downforce.
    Thanks Howard, sorry for the stupid questions, I find this really fascinating. How did you come to create the bodywork designs and then develop them to gain the best combination of downforce and low drag? I assume there wouldn't have been any sort of wind tunnel, even though some teams had the access to wind tunnels, so how did you come to the conclusions you did on body shape? Was it a case of creating what was the most logical shape at the time based on the experience you'd gained, and what the opposition were doing? And how did you test the different designs once created? Did you ever use the cotton threads trick, or was it more seat of the pants?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Holmes View Post
    Ray, I'm no expert on Ginetta's, but could that maroon #20 car in the background in your last post possibly be one of the very rare Ford V8 powered G10s?

    That Lotus is incredible. Is the body bare aluminium?
    Very well spotted Steve. Correct, it is the G10 Ginetta. Careless of me... The G21 doesn't have the flared guards.

    Yes, the body of the 11 GT is Aluminium.

  15. #75
    Thanks Ray, that Ginetta G10 would be an incredibly rare car, apparently only 6 were ever built. They were Ginetta's answer to the popular Anglo-American sports car craze that was happening in the early 60s, led by the Cobra. The TVR Griffith and Sunbeam Tiger were other examples.

  16. #76
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    Arguably, the Ginetta was the best looking of all of them too. Several cars from that era I loved. Another was the TVR Trident. I think I have only seen two and one was at the garage of Ian Richardson of V8 Corvair Super Saloon fame - but I didn't have a camera with me at the time...
    Last edited by ERC; 11-13-2012 at 11:20 PM.

  17. #77
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    Back to NZ... Captions later. Quality is a bit variable overall in my picture posts as some of these are in glass mounted slides and really need removing to scan better, but I am wasting enough time on them as it is. The 80/20 theory holds good in my life. You get it 80% right in 20% of the time.

    Not sure of the date for this one either!
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    The much respected Geoff Manning's Volpini at Pukekohe.

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    The Japanese invasion had started back then...
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    "Skidmark" Parsons in characteristic pose at Whenuapai. once again, flagging so I didn't get a programme so not sure what year it is.

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    The late Jimmy Chrystall at an MGCC Otaua Hillclimb. Coming down the hill of course... On the way up, I was timekeeping not taking pics.

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    Last edited by ERC; 11-14-2012 at 11:58 PM.

  18. #78
    I think there was only one TVR Trident built, but because TVR were in financial troubles at the time, the Trevor Fiore design was then used by a TVR dealer who set up a company called Trident and began producing the cars in very small numbers. Did they call them Trident Clippers?

  19. #79
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    Indeed they did! I presume it was a Trident Clipper I saw. Amazing what you forget over a 40 year period...

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Clark View Post
    Westbury had a beard - he may still. I seem to recall Jim Clark once tested the Felday.
    Jim Clark raced the Felday 4 in the Guards Trophy race at Brands Hatch on August 29 1966. He was first in class in Heat 1 and retired from Heat 2.

    Felday 4 was a 4wd sports car with a BRM 2-litre V-8 engine, completed in 1965 and raced with some success by Peter Westbury, Mac Daghorn and Jim Clark.

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