This is terrible news and hits down deep, our prayers and thoughts are with him and family, a well known gentleman and a beaut guy along with it.
This is terrible news and hits down deep, our prayers and thoughts are with him and family, a well known gentleman and a beaut guy along with it.
He was operated on last night, and has at this point had a comfortable night.
Roger
Does a car with " Muscle " have to derive from the great USA to wear this title , e.g Jack Ondrack in his TVR . If this dosen,t have " Muscle " then I have missed something !Originally Posted by Racer Rog
I Think it would depend upon your diffinition of the term, Jacks car does not quite fit it under HMC terms, but I would guess its halfway there, V8 out of the US of A standard, because the poms could not make a cheap scource high HP engines.
Roger
The term "Muscle" is used very loosely in this country particularly in motorsport, most all other countries involved in "Historic" racing call the vehicles of what would be considered the true "Muscle" Car era,(Pre 1978 tin tops) "Touring cars" and are fitting into different categories depending on age, engine, whether a saloon or sports car, etc and to some a Morris 1100 fitted with a 1850 could be a muscle car, what determines a vehicles status as a "True" Historic Touring car(EG: Muscle car) is its componentry representing its "period" in time, EG: a 1970 Camaro fitted with 1970 Camaro parts, this is based under each countries "Historic and Classic" rules as set out by each countries representing motorsport body to the FIA. For NZ this is set out in the Motorsport manual under Appendix 6 "Historic Competition" identifying the various groups such as Schedule K and T&C vehicles, once a old pre 78 saloon or sports car is modified with newer(post 78) componentry or outside how it would have raced "period"(EG, when new or near new) its either called a "club car" a "All-comers" or a "Sport Sedan" type vehicle depending on how each country views these groups!!
As for the TVR, "Muscle" hell yes, as for Historic or Classic, i think not.
Dale M
Yet HMC would allow an alloy bodied Cobra, [Body/Chassis built in the UK, Muscle parts fitted in the USA], same theme as the TVR where cars were shipped to USA less motor for engine fitment, yes I agree JO's car has a few non TVR bits, but then ,doesnt someones Boss 302 run a ~ 355 cu in stroker/ big bore kit?, try doing that to a 69/70 Boss 302 block & see how it enhances the cooling system. Personally I think the whole COD system is a joke, prefer to think of it as a- Certificate of Deception
Jac Mac, we don`t allow Corvettes in HMC, so a Cobra isn`t eligible either. Factory two or four door, four seater, period correct, of US, Aust, or South African origin.
Jac Mac- if you take time to read the rules, then there would not be any misunderstanding. Steve Elliott and I are the new boys and we had no problems with the rules. I personally cant run a Dart block as its not correct dimensions as a Cleveland.
No you cant but Dale for example can, you could get a Buttermore Block if you could talk Todd into making one for your falcon coupe , but if you want a quick ford its gotta be an XW Falcon or a 351w optioned ~69/70 manual stang to get it out to a safe ~427+ cubes within the 351c architecture, in post # 2or 3 of the HMC thread Dale alluded to an alloy Cobra being acceptable, but I see you have since brought out an "acceptable" Model List, however several "Muscle Car" publications in my library include both the Vette & Cobra in their listings, but hey, you guys make your own rules, after all its all about the cars, you certainly dont want drivers trying steal all the accolades by trying to be stars &'win' do you.
However this thread was meant to be for pics from the 3 SI meets, didnt even get to Teretonga myself today due to Grandad duties, but did get up close & personal with a proper mustang that makes a 'Boss' look like a part time employee!
Last edited by Jac Mac; 02-17-2013 at 05:56 AM.
HMC is one of the few "Historic and Classic" class's were the rules apply to everyone equally, based on T&C we are still new at this and learning as we go, originally under T&C we included both group 1 and 2 to allow sports cars, one person wanted to build a Bolwell Nagari which would have decimated the feild, another was a Pantera but as most wanted to build and race "Saloons" we decided to split the two groups,(someone else can handle the Sports Car) then i had persons wanting to build a 928 Porshce as they just fitted into the pre 12/77 criteria by 3 months so we though our arms in the air and done what the Aussies done, make an "Eligibility List" and from this we moved forward!!
We also realised we need a component supply readly avaliable but still keeping within the vehicles "Historic and Classic" rules/movement and to help build a fleet and make it viable!! this is NZ afterall, so to beable to buy a new but replacement part similar was the goal, from this we allowed Jerico and Tex 101 gearbox's as a "direct bolt in" replacement due to Toploaders and Muncies been difficult to source, even my American mates struggle to fine them these days and most are 40 plus years old and beat to death!! and once everyone has one(Jerico/Tex) there is then no performance advantage!! the same with engines, my Boss engine is NO larger than the maximun size engine my Mustang could have came with, EG 351, 428, same with Camaros, several have 406's but still no larger than a 427, but with been all cast iron(as per T&C) stock valve angle and port spacing and with a stock bonnet fitment this strangled the engine limiting the BIG HP, so we have allow aftermarket replacement blocks and heads of the same dimmensions as per each particular vehicle. NOW, theres alot MORE detail that i can go into here but between myself, Tony and Steve we will one step at a time iron the bugs out and are slowly but surely getting this done. Luckly if one doesn't like it, they can just go race in all the other groups avaliable, theres plenty out there, but they better not whinge when they get beat by a modern 900HP turbo Porshce, 1000HP turbo Nissan Skyline or similar.
Also, if i'd have had my own way i would have just impliment the Australian Historic and Classic Group Nc rules and been done with it, those boys over the pond have it sorted and i would have happly made my car comply, but THAT was going cause a major uproar and most would have had to start again!!
As you can see there is SO much more i can write about but this thread has been hijacked enough, but below is what im constantly pushing and i ALWAYS have attached to my HMC E-mailouts:
Dale M
CHEATING:Our rules are simple. They are notexact in many areas as “the spirit of sportsmanship” is the primary focus. The"Statement of Purpose" will take precedence in any rule dispute. Ifan entrant is found to have contravened the spirit of the rules he will riskdisqualification from any further involvement with HMC. In other words,cheating is not something that will be taken lightly. READ THE RULES and askquestions.
Philosophy. Historic and Classic motorsport is that branch ofthe sport where vehicles from a past era are used in friendly rivalry to allowthem to be exercised in a manner that the manufactures intended. It is not abranch of the sport where series and trophies for winning races are held inhigher regard than the sheer enjoyment of being involved.
Last edited by Kiwiboss; 02-17-2013 at 07:55 AM.
My last word Jac Mac-I built my Coupe to have fun with .Your idea of a car is not what Historic Muscle Cars is about.
Grady Thomsons Monaro will run again at Teretonga as a Schedule K COD , not a hot rod .
Last edited by John McKechnie; 02-17-2013 at 08:11 AM.
So were there any photos from these events? Someone must have been armed with a camera?
Thanks to my main man, Terry Marshall, for sending these to me. Southern Festival of Speed, from Ruapuna.
Check out Steve Ross getting all crossed-up as he chases Clark Proctor.
Jeez these are great pics. Thanks to Terry for sharing
Saloon car racing action
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