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Thread: How many classes?

  1. #1
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    How many classes?

    NZ has a population of just over 4 million people. These 4 million live in a land area slightly bigger than the UK (80-odd million people).
    I recently began to compile a list of all the classes of cars currently racing on our tracks (i.e. excluding rally/off road racing). I got to 26 and gave up-there were a lot I was not aware of. So, with your collective knowledge I will start a list here, beginning with single seaters.
    Formula First/Vee
    SI Formula Ford
    National FF
    Historic FF
    Formula Libre
    Formula Suzuki
    Formula Challenge
    F5000
    TRS
    Formula Junior.
    Please feel free to add your class or those you know are currently racing.

  2. #2
    Historic Muscle Car- and competing

  3. #3
    There are too many. All it does is spread the fixed number of people who want to go racing over a wider area, so smaller grids.
    However; you try and tell some people that their class is not really what the sport needs...

  4. #4
    how to kill motor racing divide and conquer. while people want a class to race in, and start their own, ( witness $2000 saloons and others) motor racing will die. witness sports car racing, went to under/over 2 litre classes where is it now? just my 2c worth

  5. #5
    With the single seater classes you would need to split out the historic classes (F5000, FJ, Historic FF) as they cater to a different category of competitor who probably wouldn't compete in the "mainstream" classes.

  6. #6
    World Champion ERC's Avatar
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    There is a valid reason for splitting classes when the speed differentials are large, but not if it means two (or more) tiny grids.

    We split ours into two groups as we had too many for one grid years ago. We now have the second highest number of registered competitors in our 27 year history (120) , yet this weekend, we only have enough for one grid. Ice Breaker 2010, we had 80 cars at the first meeting (43 AES +37 ARROWS) out of a season's total of 117 cars.

    The speed differentials within the two classes mean that splitting by speed works best for us so as to eliminate faster cars starting handicaps from the pit lane, or people getting lapped in scratch races - and I do prefer handicap races..

    We currently have a situation with two marque series running small grids this weekend, one well established and one trying to get off the ground, so I approached them to see if they would consider combining (most of the drivers run in AES or Arrows alongside each other anyway.... ). The long established marque club were happy enough, but the newer series marque club did not want to combine as they "wanted to promote their marque".

    Now the other side of the coin is that as a series organiser, I have had a lot of stick (written as well as verbal) over the years for being pragmatic and allowing in cars that the "establishment" or even purists within our ranks refused to accept. As a great supporter of Mike John's inital Targas, there were many cars that did not fit into the established race categories, but driver's wanted to race their Targa cars on circuits. When we rewrote our rules to accept some of them, the established organising club at the time, wouldn't accept them at their meetings, nor replicas, as they didn't fit with THEIR philosophy.

    Our own philosophy has always been inclusive and pragmatic, but then even the H & C Commission don't see it that way either, hence our running outside of T & C - a situation that we have now accepted.

    It is a complex area and I agree, there are far too many classes and many of them are not financially viable now and never will be.

    The only alternative is to say to invited race groups, you buy a grid for say $3,000 (+ the MSNZ levy per driver), and split the entry fee between your guys however you think fit. Get 30 guys together and that is only a $100 entry fee plus levy. If you can't justify the $3,000, then combine with another group or groups, but I certainly will no longer be promoting any race meeting that is going to lose money.

    Sadly, no one will normally take up the grid purchase offer. At this stage, they can't see that they are indeed killing off the club level of the sport and by being unwilling to share the track, they are hastening their own demise at this level.

    If the U2K group gets off the ground and they get 25 cars at each meeting, then I can guarantee that they'll be higher on my invite list than a marque club that only produces 6 entries paying the full fee.

    From my own perspective as a driver, then as long as I am not lapped and driving standards are enforced, I really don't care who I race with, BUT (and it is a big, "but") much as everyone used to enjoy the annual Datsun Z speed group meeting, I do prefer a series environment, as the camaraderie is what makes it so enjoyable.

  7. #7
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    Carrying on with the list.
    Supertourers
    NZ V8's
    Super Sixes
    Holden HQ?
    Mini 7?
    SS2000
    Pro 7
    Suzuki Swifts
    Production saloons
    Central Districts Muscle Cars
    Pre 65's
    Honda Cup
    Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
    Star cars
    Arrows Wheels-not sure how many classes here-maybe someone can tell us?
    Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
    OSCA?
    2K Cup
    BMW-2 classes?
    No doubt there are more.

  8. #8
    George Shewiery has 2 Muscle car series-
    Production Muscle.
    Northern Muscle
    Is there Sports Cars any more?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rf84 View Post
    Carrying on with the list.
    Supertourers
    NZ V8's
    Super Sixes
    Holden HQ?
    Mini 7?
    SS2000
    Pro 7
    Suzuki Swifts
    Production saloons
    Central Districts Muscle Cars
    Pre 65's
    Honda Cup
    Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
    Star cars
    Arrows Wheels-not sure how many classes here-maybe someone can tell us?
    Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
    OSCA?
    2K Cup
    BMW-2 classes?
    No doubt there are more.
    Look we all know what they want to see out there,they want to see what went down at PUKE last weekend any car with a v8 in it.As you all know there is a meeting today about starting up a new class HISTORIC SPORTS SEDAN so put that on the list allso

  10. #10
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    Yes-Sports cars are still active. They run 3 classes + there is talk of another (front engine "Clubmans" type cars) being established as these cars are no longer competitive against the rear engined Junos, Radicals etc. One of the few classes that still provides an outlet for Kiwi ingenuity.
    Production Muscle
    Northern Muscle

  11. #11

  12. #12
    World Champion ERC's Avatar
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    Supertourers
    NZ V8's
    NZ V8 Utes
    Super Sixes
    Holden HQ?
    Mini 7?
    SS2000
    Pro 7
    Suzuki Swifts
    Production saloons
    Central Districts Muscle Cars
    Northern Muscle Cars
    Production Muscle cars
    Historic Muscle Cars

    Pre 65's
    Honda Cup
    Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
    Star cars
    ERC (Euro) - 1 Arrows Wheels - faster group
    ERC (Euro) - 2 AES/TradeZone - slower group
    Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
    OSCA?
    U2K Cup - yet to race
    BMW E30 - 2 grids
    BMW Open - over 2 litre
    BMW Open - under 2 litre

    Alfa Trofeo
    MG Series
    Classic Japanese
    Sports Cars
    ACEs - slower saloons

    Plus - Classic Trials - a great stepping stone for the other race classes
    Last edited by ERC; 04-20-2013 at 04:56 AM.

  13. #13
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    That's 38 so far and still counting!

  14. #14
    Sports Saloons is a very well support class in the SI. and of course everyone has forgotten Clubmans racing which quite frankly is where most of the classes previously mentioned actually belong.
    Last edited by Carlo; 04-20-2013 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Left a "r" out, not the sort of thing someone born in Southland normally does

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rf84 View Post
    One of the few classes that still provides an outlet for Kiwi ingenuity.
    Production Muscle
    Northern Muscle
    How so???????

    Dale M

  16. #16
    What ever happened to the Bridgestone Porsche series, there were always hundreds of them there-like HQs.

  17. #17
    World Champion ERC's Avatar
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    I don't think Bridgestone are sponsoring it now as we seem to have picked up several ex-Bridgestone runners.

    Is it possible to classify the list by area? National; South Island south/north/central, North Island/south/north/central?

    Much of that list appears to be North Island north! Maybe some idea of how many current registered participants/cars would tell a better story. I can be accurate with ours and could guess some others. Our own below is cars. 120 drivers.

    Supertourers
    NZ V8's
    NZ V8 Utes
    Super Sixes
    Holden HQ?
    Mini 7?
    SS2000
    Pro 7
    Suzuki Swifts
    Production saloons
    Central Districts Muscle Cars
    Northern Muscle Cars
    Production Muscle cars
    Historic Muscle Cars
    Pre 65's
    Honda Cup
    Manfeild Winter Series (about 5 different classes)
    Star cars
    ERC (Euro) - 1 Arrows Wheels - North Island north/central - 71 cars
    ERC (Euro) - 2 AES/TradeZone - North Island north/central - 68 cars

    Intermarque Series (Manfeild)
    OSCA?
    U2K Cup - yet to race
    BMW E30 - 2 grids
    BMW Open - over 2 litre
    BMW Open - under 2 litre
    Alfa Trofeo
    MG Series
    Classic Japanese
    Sports Cars
    ACEs - slower saloons

    Plus - Classic Trials - a great stepping stone for the other race classes

  18. #18
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    Dale. Read the sports racing car regs at www.sportsracingcars.co.nz/ and tell me if there is any other class in NZ with less prescriptive regs. It is the only class I am aware of where someone can design and build a competitive car from scratch (as distinct from modifying an existing car). One could argue that it would be possible to design and build a Formula Ford or Formula Vee but neither of these classes allow as much scope for innovative design as sports cars.
    Last edited by rf84; 04-20-2013 at 07:23 AM.

  19. #19

  20. #20
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    No. www.sportscarracing.co.nz/ works on "Bing". Perhaps just try putting 'sports car racing club NZ inc' into your search engine.
    Last edited by rf84; 04-20-2013 at 08:19 AM.

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