ERC Race Series - Euro Saloons & Sports

[RacerT]

Hi Rog. Lately the ERC series has been split into Arrows Wheels and AES, so the ERC 'brand' hasn't been used. I'm a big fan of Ray's series and commend the amount of work he does. It's not a perfect world and it seems that motorsport is more imperfect than most!
The rest of the world is based around cars racing as an 'era field', but here in NZ we race series, so it has been hard to get competitors to change their way of thinking. But on the other hand, series coordinators are great to have because you are just dealing with one entity instead of all the competitors, so there are pros and cons for both styles. The ideal would be for all of Ray's cars to be on COD's, but that is never going to happen. Remember Ray is from a country where some guy called Ellis picked up the soccer ball and ran with it and then invented a new game! Maybe it's in the blood!

[Kiwiboss]

Hi Rog. Lately the ERC series has been split into Arrows Wheels and AES, so the ERC 'brand' hasn't been used. I'm a big fan of Ray's series and commend the amount of work he does. It's not a perfect world and it seems that motorsport is more imperfect than most!
The rest of the world is based around cars racing as an 'era field', but here in NZ we race series, so it has been hard to get competitors to change their way of thinking. But on the other hand, series coordinators are great to have because you are just dealing with one entity instead of all the competitors, so there are pros and cons for both styles. The ideal would be for all of Ray's cars to be on COD's, but that is never going to happen. Remember Ray is from a country where some guy called Ellis picked up the soccer ball and ran with it and then invented a new game! Maybe it's in the blood!

Still a great debate on here but RacerT hit the nail on the head, it seems that NZ old car racing is mainly “Race Series” based whereas the rest of the world is “Vehicle Era” based. What we are doing with HMC is vehicle based, where anyone is welcome as long as your vehicle is legal. Unfortunately there is still some resistance but many are starting to “get it”. The “Series based” old car racing is a bit uneven, hard to control, and really relies solely on the series co-ordinators which means the rules or interpretation of those rules that can change easily when someone else is in charge or changes occur in the committee.

While this is not really a problem for series events, it can cause something like the Festival (that is making people focus on Historic racing) to either head one way or the other. Either down the track of series rules or proper historic enforced rules.

Remember old car Historic and Classic racing is meant to be “about the vehicle” and the moment you modernise the vehicle its a “Club Car” and is now unfair on the other ‘proper’ classic or historic cars who do not have the benefit of the new technology.

In HMC the four fastest cars have pretty much hit the brick wall of performance and consequently everyone can catch up, but no one could pull away unless modern technology is applied. As this is strictly banned we are going to ensure close exciting racing without the need for handicapping every race.

Ray writes excellent postings and I for one barely have enough time just for this one. However anyone who posts a disagreement against Ray’s line of thinking get his written “essay ramblings” that slowly but surely moves it away from the original query. There are clear indications that there are some people that disagree with allowing cars that are not within the rules, but their concerns are pushed aside or ignored with the argument that numbers are more important.

I stated in posting #84 that “i see ERC as a mish mash group where rules seem to be more guides lines than offering up historic values in the vehicles” Ray thinks this is me saying that ERC has NO RULES, but this is not the case. I know he has rules but they’re only interpreted by a one man committee as in his posting post #99 where he states I do have the luxury of being a one man committee. Didn’t some guy in 30’s Europe try running a country like this LOL? It is important for all participants to know that if they comply with a rule they can expect all others in the field to have also done so. Otherwise what is the point of rules at all if they are not applied to all.

He provides an arm length long list of all these entries and vehicles available for his “race series” but to me that’s easy when breaking your own rules, I too could do the same in HMC if I wanted to include every non-conforming muscle CAR in NZ.

You see nzder is making a huge effort to build a period correct “Era Based” 240Z to T&C but how are you going to like it when you line up on the ERC grid alongside another 240Z that’s a hot-rod club car built to no real regulations but he got “invited” by Rays one man committee as he’s on the list and a good guy but that’s OK because he’ll handicap the shit outta him? Hell I’d be pissed, maybe others won’t but I have my doubts. Handicapping everyone so they meant to cross the line evenly is pretty cool and I’ve had some of my best racing in handicaps but this is not historic racing, but it’s the only way ERC can even out its unlevelled playing field rather than enforce regulations? Some of the biggest accidents in NZ motorsport have been around this format, but if one really wants to see this type of racing go to a club event as there’s plenty happening most weekends on tracks around NZ.

Filling up the grids with more modern post 12/77 vehicles only has the effect to drive away the older car owners even further but once again Ray uses the excuse that “well” they’ve become too expensive, owners don’t want them damaged, they’ve restored them all. Sure they don’t want them damaged, imagine some cheap non-legal modern invited vehicle driving though the side of your beautifully restored historically correct older 240Z. The point being made by Ray, that opening up the class allows some of the old race cars to be raced ‘rather than sidelined’ ignores the other side of the argument that the true compliant race cars no longer want to race as they run the risk of accidents or just being non-competitive despite being correct. Over time it only gets worst with less and less older vehicles showing up and that’s the case these days.

LOOK, at the end of the day I don’t expect you all to agree with me and I know this, and I see nothing wrong with ERC as it is a fantastic well organised, well run and well-oiled machine. But it is ONLY CLUB RACING nothing more and certainly not anything about classic or historic values (yes I know he does have some historic T&C and K saloons in it). You see I originally started this debate because here is a club racing series that has now been invited to NZ’S best historic event and I don’t see this as a good move for the future and still don’t. This is NOT about how ERC is run or what cars they should let in, but more about whether a series of this nature should be at a premier event.

I find it interesting how the Festival of Motor Racing has become a very popular premier event and now everyone wants a piece of the action! You could say I am actually criticising the event organisers and not Ray or ERC. I have already apologised to them both, it simply amazes me (shaking my head) that it is purely self-interest, rather than looking at the bigger picture of pre 12/77 Historic and Classic saloon racing in this country.

I for one don’t say that HMC is by any means perfect either, but what myself, Tony and Steve saw was many big bore saloons sitting around with nowhere to race because of exactly the problem we are discussing. The allowing of cars that are not compliant into the class, which pushes out the ‘more correct’ cars as they are no longer competitive due to the ‘hotrod’ cars being grandfathered or being let in due to committee or personality or series co-ordinators reasons. We are making sure we change that, so any Era based car that is compliant is allowed to race and those that are not compliant are not. This is for the good for the class, the good of the racers and good for the cars. They can remain competitive without having new technology thrown at them and the chase for HP or performance by throwing large chunks of money at them each year can be avoided. Sure there is going to be a bit of pain in the growing years while numbers are built up but in the long run the result would be a fantastic class of accurate vehicles that is not a ‘cheque book racing’ series.

Dale M