The "proposed' facility near Nelson is called "Kohatu Park". I had a feeling when it was first suggested it used the name Tapawera which is a small community nearby. It has an incorporated society which is accepting members and a facebook page. The other one mentioned by Oldfart is news to me.
From JT:
Just an update on the live streaming when you get to the site click on the VOLT TV logo and that will take you to the live stream. Do not click on the button that says Go Live or Get Sorted.
This weekends New Zealand Motor Cup meeting is being live streamed and you can watch the whole thing on line from Saturday morning onwards.
To view go to:
https://livestream.com/accounts/13731600/events/8028430
Ho hum. Hardly any spectators Saturday.
Formula Libre - most of the race under Safety car.
GT/Saloons - just 13 cars started and as I watch, already down to 11
Hardly any spectators but them no shade at HD and the sun is so bloody hot at the moment that it's hardly surprising.
Real enthusiast with good racing and good programmes (not the written ones) always used to cope with that (and any other weather) in the days of Ardmore and early Puke, and every other event you care to name.Originally Posted by nigel watts
Lack of cover is not the reason for lack of crowds IMHO.
I agree with you on that "OF". With the exception of the Aussie V8 meetings I am sure the crowds are getting smaller by the year. But then some of those who go to the V8s are only there to be seen or got free tickets from some sponsor or business.
Caught a bit of the Sunday racing. Just a handful of spectators on the start line banking. From what I could see, virtually no photographers in the usual spots. No spectators at the fence at the exit to the final hairpin.
Can someone list the number of entries for each grid? Libre race I saw was a 4 way tussle between a Juno that retired, then 3 way with Kenny Smith, Tony Quinn and James Watson. Good racing between the three of them and for once, the camera covering some of the other runners, even though JT thought they should just stay on the front battle. At last there were over 20 starters (just).
What is important for TV viewers as opposed to attending spectators, which is where the commentary and a TV presentation differ, is that TV coverage HAS to cover the whole field.
Part of the reason non-petrol head friends consider motorsport totally boring, is the usual TV fixation of the leading car and maybe two others, to the exclusion of the rest of the field. Even the Goodwood Revival and members meeting coverage falls into that trap, and so we never get to see the interesting cars/drivers further down the grid - where there is a decent grid that is.
It doesn't seem to matter who runs/promotes tier 1 meetings, but they are never going to get paying spectators if they can't provide something for them to look at. If I was to travel any distance to a track, I'd rather make the effort go to the annual Manfeild MG meetings where it is a given that there are plenty of cars on track. The annual South Island meetings might also be worth a crack, (did Teretonga once and even in the abysmal weather it was enjoyable), but tier 1?
Oh, and todays NZ Herald sporting section? Zilch.
I didn't count the number of actual starters but these are the number of entrants listed in the programme.
Formula Libre - 32
Historic Formula Ford - 21
Pro7 Racing - 18
TRS -13
GTRNZ - 43
Honda Cup - 24
F5000 - 21
Improved Production Car - 15
For me the answer - Bruce302, Ken from LA and I driving through the forests leaving Tokoroa . Team Cambridge Monaro on the back heading for Taupo to a race meeting listening to Innagaddavida - extended version 30 mins-by Iron Butterfly. Road trip, party time -EXCELLENT
According to Allan Dicks FB page ten thousand people attended Timaru's 50th on the weekend..............must be too much to do up north to attract those sort of numbers...................!
I think you are absolutely right on that Dale, there is a lot of places and events for people to spend their discretionary funds, and attention spans are a lot shorter now.
Motorsport is a bit passe for the masses, it no longer holds the danger and adventure it did in the early days. It was a real spectacle.
These days people jump from planes or bridges for kicks. By the same token motorsport is much more attainable for the average guy, in any of its guises, from country dirt tracks (I was at Waiuku dirt track yesterday) to the premium tracks that seem to have an event every weekend over he summer months.
If this is a problem, I think it is one a lot of people enjoy. First world problems, right ?
Bruce.
Yep, if people want a Historic weekend or Festival of Racing ,Dale and I have done something about giving them something special for quite a long time now........If they want to come along and see us.
We all are having the time of our lives because we chose to get off our collective backsides and do something, instead of just talking.
Our world is just Historics.
The Waiuku dirt track works for people because most of us started by sliding in the dirt or gravel.
This is what brought the crowds in at Baypark Stadium on Saturday, perhaps some ditches can be dug out in the Taupo infield and combine all the grunt from cars and boats.
I have to admit that I selfishly thoroughly enjoyed myself at Taupo due to the lack of a crowd ! Not having to wait in long lines to park and eat, far away from the drivers, limited viewing with a view of perhaps a corner in expensive grandstands, everyone speaking in foreign accents, taxi drivers that rip you off going the long way, no pies or chips or good beer, no where to take photos without getting tossed out etc. etc.
I found just the opposite at Taupo and I miss it already. I wish everybody could enjoy it much as I did, but I know it needs attendance to pay the bills.
Ken H
Hello Ken. I'm glad you enjoyed your trip to Taupo and you are right about how easy viewing and eating is with smaller crowds. However I do believe that even with full grids and plenty of action the crowd sizes would not increase that much. There is too many other things to do these days as well as the fact that for today's youngsters a car is just a means of transport. I do think that the percentage of petrol heads in the general population has dropped dramatically from what it was when I was younger in the 60s.
I once read were Allan Dick said “Classic racing is like Masturbation, its only about self-gratification” and upon thinking about it has probably correct as its really only us car owners and historians that luv these vehicles and this type of event. In other words its not main stream auto racing hence the lack of public, its like a classic car show but we get to use them? I’ve been visiting the Monterey Historic’s since 1984 and been some 20 plus times, the only time I ever saw a huge crowd was in 2003 for the 100 years of Ford and 2013 for the 50 years of the Shelby Cobra. I went to both events either side of the 100 years(Jag and Aston were the marques from memory) and I was the only one sitting in the stands, absolutely NO public! When I asked around why this is so officials told me that Historic racing is only about the “Car” and the owner taking it for a competitive drive around the track, these events are not about attracting the public were as here in NZ we think every meeting should have a huge crowd and when it doesn’t we all wonder why……………I believe they probably have the correct philosophy?
Last edited by Kiwiboss; 01-29-2018 at 08:28 PM.
I agree Dale and if we look at the crowd attendance for the 50th Anniversary of Levels Raceway it is because these guys had a purpose and put on a show that to the punters meant something so the result is good spectator attendance.
You are correct Allan there is just to many other attractions these days to attend and they are all competing for the discretionary dollar.
Time has moved on and motor racing is not to the forefront of the public mind as entertainment.
For us, HMC and HSC is about the quality of the grid and maintaining that quality. This year we have had growth in the numbers of cars on the grid but we still maintain the quality.
The Taupo GP for us was great and we felt that we had given the public a good show.
The promoters of the meeting were very pleased with what we put on.
Getting the public thru the gate is their issue and the feed back I got was they were happy with the attendance but they would alway want more.
Last edited by Spgeti; 01-29-2018 at 08:11 PM.
Let's not get confused here. The grizzles about small grids and lack lustre racing relates mainly to Tier 1 racing which is televised and does not show the sport in a particularly attractive light. We in the classic/historics side of the sport, that is NOT televised, do not expect crowds of watchers - and we never have.
Allan says it like it is. I remember organising a school motor club visit, to the 1962 British Grand prix at Aintree, rounding up enough friends to hire a coach for the day. I doubt that the average school today would have enough boys (or girls) interested enough to hire a minibus, let alone a 40 seater coach.
Equally, even without sky TV, relying totally on the BBC's Saturday afternoon's sports programme (in black and white), interspersed between the dogmeat racing and various other sports, we had limited coverage of the following:
Circuit racing - saloons, sports cars, non-championship F1 cars (yup, those were the days).
Hillclimbs - including 'Rest and be Thankful' in Scotland and several English hill climbs.
Sporting Car trials (mud-plugging)
Point to point (London Motor Club vs the Army in a range of vehicles from trucks to cars)
The annual Inter area driving tests.
Goodwood Tourist Trophy
We also used to get hourly reports on the radio from the Monte Carlo Rally - which was huge in those days. Hourly reports from the 24 hours of Le Mans too on BBC radio.
What this coverage did was feed the interest for any enthusiast and as Allan correctly points out, as a percentage, there were many more in those days.
Here we are, two days after the Tier 1 racing at Hampton Downs, where at least the Toyota Series is accepted as our premier single seater grid (I judge 23 starters for that grid as acceptable) and the country's most widely read newspaper has had precisely zero coverage of the results.
There is a very good opinion piece about boy racers not being motorsport people from a Herald reporter today, but nothing whatever about the sport.
Whether this is the Sports Editor of the Herald being anti motorsport or the Speedworks people not passing on Press Releases for the print media, I don't know, but despite the social media, interweb and people glued to their cell phones, the Herald is still wall to wall rugby, cricket and dogmeat racing (aka, a 4 page daily list for gamblers), so why no motorsport coverage?
Yes, for us it is all about the cars but a Bathhurst Festival classed by HD as a 'Premier Event' with apartment owners limited to 4 free passes and other guests having to pay, even if it is only granny babysitting, with an abysmal programme and small grids, we have serious problems at a classic level too.
Ironically, there are no restrictions on apartment owners for the Tier 1 meeting at HD so we can only assume that the HD management doesn't see it as a Premier event.
We are never going to get the huge crowds back, so why waste $1,000's on promotion and charge high prices for the tickets? Seems a bit dumb to me. Speedworks as the current promoters of tier 1 may be charging the entrants a small fortune to cover their costs, but the general public are not contributing.
There is nothing whatever happening in NZ to lift the interest levels for the casual spectators and as others have pointed out, there is virtually no shelter from the elements - wet or fine - either.
NZ racing is often far better value for spectators than some overseas meetings, due to the continuous running rather than running to the clock.
Some tracks are brilliant at that - Teretonga for example has drivers out on the warm up lap just a few seconds after the last car has passed the line. Manfeild runs very slickly too. Why doesn't that slickness apply at HD or Pukekohe? Spectators need entertaining and that means as much track action as possible, not staring at empty tarseal.
Last edited by ERC; 01-29-2018 at 08:51 PM.
Great input Ray, a thread like this deserves your experience and keeping to the point
This from Roland Dane- speedcafe post- in relation to whats the answer in his sandpit-
According to Dane, the sport must continue to adapt and change in line with the changing desires of fans, ideally anticipating them in order to safeguard its future.However, he warns against relying on market research, which he suggests could lead the sport down a rabbit hole, and instead believes it should be taking charge of its own destiny
“Yes, we have to listen to fans et cetera, but they often won’t tell you, because they don’t know; they know what they’d like, and they know what they don’t like, but you’ve got to try and pre-empt where the world’s going.
Good interview, well worth the read, and GO the mighty Scotty Mac
The great Sterling Moss predicted correctly. “Sticky tyres have killed the sport of motor racing.”
When Sterling Moss was here in NZ, I once had the privilege and pleasure of a short chat with him and the above comment was delivered in a very forthright manner and it came through loud and clear.
As a of now, cars racing on a circuit might as well be fitted with flanged wheels and run on a single railway track, after being arranged in order of their practice times. LOL Significantly, a google will show that dirt track racing is not in the doldrums. (Differences in respect of the two controlling bodies involved calls for a second topic.)
Once upon a time, if on approaching a corner one dared to move to the outside of the track, as is current practice in order to take the hallowed “racing-line”, opposition confident in their skills and accepting the risk involved would overtake on the inside to gain the required overlap, thus earning the right to the corner. Superior skill in drifting the car would then enable a tighter line and a successful overtaking.
Currently a single attribute involves judging the maximum possible cornering speed while maintaining adhesion on what has become an essential readily defined, orthodox racing line, with overtaking no longer an option. Drivers have less opportunity to demonstrate their skills and spectators are no longer presented with an interesting display and the procession continues.
However the classic scene can still offer the spectacle of a couple of drivers “giving it a go” somewhat sideways to the delight of all involved and the gate takings bare witness.
Along with sticky tyres, modern technology has further removed driver ability from the equation and speed has reached a point whereby unaided human instinct and reaction is no longer able to cope. Mechanised pit stops, remote monitoring from the pit etc, all reduce the need for multiple skills to be demonstrated and importantly on view. Races tend to be decided at the drawing board/computer and dependent on a bank balance. Furthermore the now obligatory safety measures have removed the very essence of a sport with thrills. The spectacle has lost its cutting edge.
Unfortunately and very sadly, the same scenario is affecting the amateur scene whereby costs are far outweighing participants anticipated fun of the game. Many have taken to sailing.
Human endeavour is paramount and remains on show within other sports involving vehicles, e.g., cycle racing, rowing, sailing etc. etc. and these are certainly not in the doldrums. Once again motor sport and the cars being raced must be aligned with normal human activities and with the display of obvious driver skills, so that the sport provides an integrated experience. Spectators when driving home from an event need to feel as having been involved, rather than having simply observed robots riding space rockets.
In all of this let it be clear that in respect of proper motor racing, a true drift involves a car set up in a position whereby it is not running in line with a corner and is angled inwards so that motive power can used as a means of counteracting the centrifugal force involved. Purists and tradition would have it that the front wheels should not be turned to counter the slide, as otherwise some forwards momentum is lost, but this detail is rather subjective. Whatever, sticky tyres have killed what was an art form and pictures are no longer in the gallery.
So much for sticky tyres. Take it or leave it. LOL
Last edited by Trevor Sheffield; 01-30-2018 at 08:15 AM. Reason: Typo
Good post Trevor, but it is Sir Stirling Moss, not sterling - though he is passionately British!
I do totally agree that cornering as if on rails has taken away what we know as 'attitude' and makes most modern racing less attractive. Part of the attraction of the Goodwood Revivals is the four wheel drift.
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