Formula Ford

[David McKinney]

I'm sure JC didn't race a Valour. Would have to look up the old mags to see what his winning mount was. In would have thought probably a Van Diemen

Larry Mulholland left me test-drive the Swift at Timaru during the championship season. It was - I think - the fourth FF I'd driven, and was immediately struck by how driveable it was, with much softer suspension than the competition. Trouble was, my shoulders were a lot broader than Jeff Pascoe's and I simply couldn't drive the thing properly. A huge disappointment

When Rob Lester bought the car, he stiffened the suspension and it never went so well again...

[Michael Clark]

This is potentially too good a thread to drop down the pecking order.

I was intrigued with Howard stating that Jim Richards and Paul Radisich are in a small club of NZ drivers who made it big overseas but who never did FF. I don't recall if it ever happened, but I do remember the 'MotorAction' preview of the 1973/74 championship because Richards was due to drive, I think, a Titan Mk6.

I saw as much FF racing as possible in the 70s but saw a lot more in the late 80s/early 90s when I sort of 'helped' young Phil Hellebrekers - he started with the ex Glenn Clark Pinto Trailers Reynard 83F in 86/87. He took delivery of a new Swift a few seasons later and I'll never forget a wonderful day at Bay Park when he cleaned up - with the son of the Gemco-Olds driver close behind.

I'm getting to my point - also Swift mounted that year was Paul Larsen. He was totally dominant, won the championship and went back to Chch. I'm not sure if he raced much afterwards but on the strength of his FF performances in his championship year - he should have gone very well in a Pacific. I guess the world has plenty of 'Paul Larsens'.

[Howard Wood]

Michael,

Glad you could join us, I sense we may have more coverage of single seaters in these pages!

Until proved wrong (and that has happened before) I think I am correct regarding JR and Paul Radisich being FF- less, however your contention that JR was at least entered for a meeting is interesting because he had a number of backers who were keen for him to try single seaters. When John Anderson bought the March to NZ for me for the inaugural Atlantic/Pacific series, despite my having negotiated a starting money package with Ron Frost, the NZIG organisers offered John quite a lot more money if he would let JR run in the car.

John's immediate answer was no so discussions went no further and therefore I have no idea if this was just NZIG floating the idea and/ or who's idea it was.

[Michael Clark]

Interesting - I wonder if JR knew of all this. The only open-wheeler I can recall him in was the Matich F5000 - I don't recall a FF drive ever happening...

And thank you for the welcome old chap

[Carlo]

Mary Carney nee Donald had a Titan FF ex Doug Heeny from Greymouth. Doug ran the car as a formula libre car in the South before Mary obtained the car and reconfigured it as a FF. It is quite possible that JR was offered a drive of this car back in those early days.

[David McKinney]

Jim Carney bought the Titan with, from memory, the idea of JR doing the championship races with it, and Mary doing the lesser stuff. I'm sure JR never raced it, though I have a feeling he might have had a test run (at Pukekohe?). Mary raced it once or twice, with very little to show for her efforts

[Michael Clark]

Yeah I'm sure the car 'Motor Action' promoted as being destined for JR was a Carney owned Titan Mk6.

Frankly, given his various saloon car responsibilities, I'm not sure where Jim would have found the time to do it justice.

Howard mentioned at the start of this thread the FF 40th annivesary dinner at Hampton's back in January. Peter Hughes and Neville Bailey were a couple of guys I'd never before met - both a really nice guys. The Bowin that Peter won the 1973/74 title in was advertised on Trade Me recently - it has been a front runner in Sth Island historic racing for a while now and last season was returned to orange 'CMR' livery.

[Michael Clark]

The Elfin 600 that David Oxton raced in the 1970/71 season (Formula C) and 1971/72 (when he won the first FF title) was raced by Grant Walker prior to him getting the Titan that he used for his 1974/75 title.

The Elfin has vanished.

Did it go back to Australia (we saw heaps of them at Phillip Is at the Aussie 40th anniversary of FF), is it still here or did it get turned into something else. Anyone know? - because David Oxton would love to know where it is!

[richard lester]

I'm sure JC didn't race a Valour. Would have to look up the old mags to see what his winning mount was. In would have thought probably a Van Diemen

Larry Mulholland left me test-drive the Swift at Timaru during the championship season. It was - I think - the fourth FF I'd driven, and was immediately struck by how driveable it was, with much softer suspension than the competition. Trouble was, my shoulders were a lot broader than Jeff Pascoe's and I simply couldn't drive the thing properly. A huge disappointment

When Rob Lester bought the car, he stiffened the suspension and it never went so well again...

Hi Dave, when the old boy ran the swift he ran as per set ups from larry mulholland and basically did what larry said.
problem was that he hated his time in FF and missed his mates in Vee's so back he went and i jumped into The swift.

[richard lester]

The sorry part of any class of motorsport is that you will always have a couple who cause a few problems, and FF is no different except that when one driver gets a bit toey it impacts on alot of other drivers as the competition is so tight and even. I have watched some amazing racing over the years. In the original days of FF you could just about put a blanket over the front 6 and very seldom was there problems, and they all went onto better things. I believe it is still the feeder for single seat drivers. The Toyota series was all go and then the expense became overbearing. FF gives the average kid with a bit of help or backing a chance to polish his/her skills. FV then FF and progress on as skills increase and budgets come onboard. Some can go straight in with a cheque book, and some of them make it and alot don't. But others who go through the "system" tend to go further. I believe there is a very big place for FF in our motorsport.

I agree totally Rod,ff was the best training class by quite a margin until cost's started to get out of hand and we fell into this' tin tops are the future/v8 supercar dream'.now the young guys go the suzuki swift instead and learn nothing technical.maybe with Mitch Evans and richie stanaway etc moving through it may help ff to get going again
TRS cost's are actually not over bearing and approx half of what we came across with GT3,its just that single seaters aren't viewed as necessary at present --purists like us know different though.

[richard lester]

From the early days when a car I had some involvement with (a converted National Formula car which had one too many gears for a short time) until now, I really struggle to accept the way that these are driven with little or no respect for the cars, nor the other drivers' well being. Close competition is fantastic, being close enough that almost every FF race I have evr seen has resulted in broken cars does me no favours.
I go to stock cars to watch bash and crash, no wonder some of the current F1 drivers feel the need to play stockies, they have their training in FF.
Rant over!

you are not wrong--the current drivers come in very young now and are not about to stick around,they are generally fast but haven't learnt the subtle race craft skills yet.It wasnt that long ago that vees was a 2-3 year program and ff a 2-3 year program before moving on if you were good enough by then and had some budget.
we now have young drivers retired before they are 20 years old if things dont go to plan.

[richard lester]

2 questions as we now have this thread.
1) Is the Cuda that Ross Stone built still around and also another called a TUL I believe ? I think it was Tul and not Tui as that was what I had written on the back of the photo at the time. I have a pic of this one here somewhere at Pukekohe.
Regards
Tony

The TUL showed up with kevin ingram(built by bruce turnbull) around 85/86.the thing was fast but fragile and gave Shane higgins and myself a hurry up in the 86/7 season with our van diemens.It had wishbones so strong that if you shunted you ripped the pick up points out of the chassis and you could put the wishbone back on when the pickups were re welded to the chassis.getting the engine in and out was a 'mare' as well.we actually ended up buying it and rob and my sister debbie did a few races with it but decided a form of death wish may be required as a driver after numerous failures, a young greg murphy(who worked for me at the time) also did a winter series round in it after he shunted one of my rf90 vd's in practice--great concept though and if Bruce turnbull had some developement budget it could have been a different story--the Tul went eventually to wanganui for a restoration- owners name escapes me for now.

[David McKinney]

Hi Dave, when the old boy ran the swift he ran as per set ups from larry mulholland and basically did what larry said

Nice to see you here, Richard

I based my comments on what Rob told me at the time - maybe Larry fed him duff gen. It wouldn't be the first time that sort of thing has happened!

[Carlo]

Likewise good to see you here Richard, give the old folks a hug from us both.
I was running Lyn Johnson in the Cuda against Jeff in the Swift and at that time both those cars were great race cars in traffic but they were not that great as out and out fast lap cars as Mike King and Lou Scholum could usualy both put in faster laps than either Jeff or Lyn. Jeff however had in my opinion, more talent and more determination to win than the other three and that is why he came out on top so often. As many of us know winning is a habit, so is coming 2nd & 3rd. Jeff made a habit of winning.
Kevin Ingram was another with a talent level similar to that of Jeff's but not quite the same level of committment and determination to succeed. I also think that Jeff had more out and out racecraft skills than the others that were running during that time too.

We also ran against each other for the full South Island FF series and again Jeff got the best of Lyn with from memeory Jeff winning about 90 - 95% of the encounters between the two of them over the season. 2nd was not an option for our Jeff.
We let him loose in Keith Laneys RT4 at the end of one Timaru meeting and within a few laps that was the quickest that car had ever been around the place and within a few more he was close to competative FP times, could he have raised the funding it would have been interesting to see what he could have done with one

[richard lester]

Likewise good to see you here Richard, give the old folks a hug from us both.
I was running Lyn Johnson in the Cuda against Jeff in the Swift and at that time both those cars were great race cars in traffic but they were not that great as out and out fast lap cars as Mike King and Lou Scholum could usualy both put in faster laps than either Jeff or Lyn. Jeff however had in my opinion, more talent and more determination to win than the other three and that is why he came out on top so often. As many of us know winning is a habit, so is coming 2nd & 3rd. Jeff made a habit of winning.
Kevin Ingram was another with a talent level similar to that of Jeff's but not quite the same level of committment and determination to succeed. I also think that Jeff had more out and out racecraft skills than the others that were running during that time too.

We also ran against each other for the full South Island FF series and again Jeff got the best of Lyn with from memeory Jeff winning about 90 - 95% of the encounters between the two of them over the season. 2nd was not an option for our Jeff.
We let him loose in Keith Laneys RT4 at the end of one Timaru meeting and within a few laps that was the quickest that car had ever been around the place and within a few more he was close to competative FP times, could he have raised the funding it would have been interesting to see what he could have done with one

hi carlo,
i well remember those days--i used to enjoy watching Jeff race and as a young fulla not far away from getting into ff myself he was the guy i aspired to be.hell of a nice guy too and was very helpful to dad and i took as much info as i could digest as well.jeff had a great race brain and in my opinion was one of the best weve seen in ff,paul larsen ,shane drake,ashley stitchbury and gary croft werent too bad either(slightly different era though)..i also remember well lyn's harness marks after his wigram shunt ,that era had some extremely talented drivers who raced hard and fair and then retired to the bar.
you know its tough now that most young drivers/families start circuit racing with a career as motivation.very few have the passion to do without the luxuries of life while they get established and crikey do they ever come and go at a high rate now.

[TonyG]

Thank you Richard for clearing that up. I always wondered if I had the name right. I grew up watching your dad, then yourself and sister come through. It was great racing to watch. If I remember correctly you had quite a set up with all the cars you were running as part of the team. The good old days !
Regards
Tony

The TUL showed up with kevin ingram(built by bruce turnbull) around 85/86.the thing was fast but fragile and gave Shane higgins and myself a hurry up in the 86/7 season with our van diemens.It had wishbones so strong that if you shunted you ripped the pick up points out of the chassis and you could put the wishbone back on when the pickups were re welded to the chassis.getting the engine in and out was a 'mare' as well.we actually ended up buying it and rob and my sister debbie did a few races with it but decided a form of death wish may be required as a driver after numerous failures, a young greg murphy(who worked for me at the time) also did a winter series round in it after he shunted one of my rf90 vd's in practice--great concept though and if Bruce turnbull had some developement budget it could have been a different story--the Tul went eventually to wanganui for a restoration- owners name escapes me for now.

[Steve Holmes]

you are not wrong--the current drivers come in very young now and are not about to stick around,they are generally fast but haven't learnt the subtle race craft skills yet.It wasnt that long ago that vees was a 2-3 year program and ff a 2-3 year program before moving on if you were good enough by then and had some budget.
we now have young drivers retired before they are 20 years old if things dont go to plan.

Richard, its great to have you on here, welcome to the site.

This is an interesting point you've made. Why do you suppose this is? Is there now more pressure on them to achieve success quickly in each class they compete in? Are young drivers now expected to win a championship in their first season in a new class, then quickly move on to the next class and do the same thing? Is a driver who spends more than one season in a class without winning a title or coming close to it, considered not to be made of the right stuff these days? Its almost as if a young guys career stalls if he doesn't quickly pass through each class on the ladder and instantly achieve success.

[richard lester]

Richard, its great to have you on here, welcome to the site.

This is an interesting point you've made. Why do you suppose this is? Is there now more pressure on them to achieve success quickly in each class they compete in? Are young drivers now expected to win a championship in their first season in a new class, then quickly move on to the next class and do the same thing? Is a driver who spends more than one season in a class without winning a title or coming close to it, considered not to be made of the right stuff these days? Its almost as if a young guys career stalls if he doesn't quickly pass through each class on the ladder and instantly achieve success.

Hi Steve,
yes you are quite right--as i have said to many people "there are plenty of fast drivers out there but not many racers".i must admit i cringe a bit watching various races at tier1 and 2 events seeing some of the poor decision making going on.
I think part of the problem is that newcomers dont have much of a structured plan looking ahead.it's pretty much win this year-move up and win again next year and so on.learning tracks/cars/teams/and how to race arent really taken into account too much.i think there is also the element of the quicker we can move up the less we will have to spend on this class.
i see lots of kids come straight from karts ready to be world champions and they and the parents dont realise how much different the disciplines are and how much more has to be learned.Kids like Mitch and richie are not only naturally gifted to start with but their camp's know the game well and can bring them along at a far quicker pace.
I have had some involvement in F/BMW(asia) and that whole structure world wide was based on "your son can make it all the way to f1-give me your checkbook and we will see what we can do".so the kids study lots and lots of data which is fine i guess,but then you need someone to teach you how to transfer that to the track(i think they refer to that as old school now !!).I have seen the "dude you need to be faster thru turn 3" turn into a visit to the wall because the kid just kept his foot in it hoping he would get around.
better stop before i get accused of ranting!!!

[Steve Holmes]

Nothing wrong with ranting Richard, thats what this site was built for! Its fascinating to hear things from your perspective. You must have seen a lot of talent go to waste over the years through bad management? Its interesting, but 20 years ago, young guys trying to make a career for themselves coming from NZ were very much single seater focused, but that seems to have changed, as they know they can make a pretty good living in Australia now in V8 Supercars. There was a time when tin tops were the back-up plan, if the single seater career didn't work out, but now a lot of young guys (in Australia also) are focused only on making it to V8 Supercars.

[Russ Noble]

I'm sure JC didn't race a Valour. Would have to look up the old mags to see what his winning mount was. In would have thought probably a Van Diemen
.

I'm pretty sure it was a Valour. An unremarkable car that he bought from Don Elvy. As I recall he put in many hours at Ruapuna testing and developing it and won the FF national championship with it in 84/5