Is there a future for Formula Ford?

[rf84]

In one of the other threads there are posts about the future of Formula Ford. It is fairly obvious from the dwindling numbers of FFs racing that the class is in serious decline.
There have been some suggestions about a possible replacement class including using the Honda motor as used in the USA. I do not know what mods would be required to existing FF cars to fit the Honda engine or if it is even feasible. In the early 2000's when a lot of manufacturers no longer made chassis for the 1600 Kent there were attempts to fit the Kent engine to chassis designed and built for Zetec and Duratec engines. These failed as, in many cases, the modified Zetec/Duratec cars were slower than the older purpose built Kent cars. I don't know the feasability of installing Honda engines in existing FF chassis.
But one has to ask the fundamental question "should we even try"?
What is needed now more than ever in NZ motorsport is a PLAN. The obvious body to formulate and implement this plan is MSNZ as the administrators of the sport. Their failure or inability to do this has led to an ad hoc proliferation of classes providing no logical progression for aspiring racing drivers. In some cases these classes even compete with one another to attract competitors (I refer to Formula Suzuki and Formula Challenge single seaters). Europe for example has a logical progression from FF to F3 to GP2 and F1. Each class is not a quantam leap from the one preceding it to the one that follows in terms of speed. We have no such ladder at present and, if we did, one would have to consider if FF (in any guise) would fit into this ladder.
Here's the conundrum. A very successful young karter has just joined our local car club with aspirations to do well in car racing. He wants to know what class to get into to best achieve his goals. What do we tell him? Formula First (that is probably slower than his kart) then Formula Ford (where he might get to race against 6 other cars if the class is still in existence then) then Formula Toyota (a big jump in terms of speed and cost).
Or do we be brutally honest and tell him that car racing is in a state of disarray and that he would be better off sticking to karting?

[crunch]

Yes, there is a future. It's obvious that the current F/Ford series is way below par. That is not to say that the 2 or 3 front runners are not good drivers, they have talent...the problem is there is not enough of them.
Formula Toyota needs Formula Ford as a feeder class so there are more NZ'ers in the field. Only 3? this year and if there is a lean European presence one year, then we have a potential disaster.

Send me your email contact to crunch1@xtra.co.nz and I will send you the plan that I formulated 3 years ago, but unfortunately self-interested parties got in the way and it was stalled. I understand that the Chairman of the race commission has got a think-tank? together on motor racing in general in NZ, and I have been pressing him that this should be top of the list.
The American Honda engine scenario is not an option. First question is do we need a newer fleet of Formula Fords or "dress up the older ones" (much like the NZ Govt did to the Skyhawks). The new Formula Ford Eco boost cars in Europe are the bees knees and very cost effective (50K NZ) but still a lot of money and we need to give a lead in time or notice period to the current cars. Of course the current fleet (or whats left of it) needs to be catered for at some level...

[Racer Rog]

Just to put you on a spot Crunch, Why is the Honda engine not a option, its very cost effective, more so than a Kent engine, and it has the WOW factor that appeals to the younger generation, a replacement engine does not have to be Ford, they stopped supporting FF years ago, in fact, that they now make new kent blocks, is due to fact that they were shamed into it by Honda supplying engines for the class in the States, where they now call the class Formula F ( Honda Fit motor).
Roger

[Russ Noble]

In my opinion the primary problem is not with the cars, it is with the fact that there is not a decent North Island FF series where the young guns can get relevant competitive racing and seat time before embarking on the National Championship.

Also there are not that many young guns coming through each year so the rest of field has to be filled with enthusiasts who will race for their enjoyment, year in year out. These guys can still provide good racing amongst themselves, even if they are not competitive with the front runners. All too often the also-rans are overlooked in the Championship focus and only belatedly given enticements to compete to swell the fields at the eleventh hour. That needs to change. And a means also needs to be found to instigate a series similar to SIFF in the North Island. However this probably needs to be driven by potential competitors rather than dictated by edict from the top. The question is where to race, without races you won't get competitors, and without competitors you wont get races!

There is a good historic series going in the NI. I wonder whether modern FFs could run in that, but maybe off the back of the grid, on 30sec delay for instance, until their numbers build sufficiently to warrant their own races?

There may be practical reasons why none of this can happen but I'm sure someone will quickly tell me.....

Edit. And talking about also-rans, the racing at that level can still be close and competitive and the costs are very reasonable. But they need a local NIFF series to compete in to make owning a car worthwhile. IMO

[Russ Noble]

Given that Historic FF joined the moderns at Taupo, so what is stopping the moderns from joining the Historics at HRC or TACCOC meetings? They don't have to be championship events. Or do they have to pay a (higher) sanctioned series race entry fee at a classic meeting? Just a thought.

The average long term midfield runner with his $5000 motor that he can build and rebuild himself at minimal cost can still have good close racing with other guys who are doing the same thing.

The point is, they need to have somewhere to do it and in the NI other than the three national rounds, there is nowhere. In my opinion that is the biggest threat to the future of FF.

In my opinion the primary problem is not with the cars, it is with the fact that there is not a decent North Island FF series where the young guns can get relevant competitive racing and seat time before embarking on the National Championship.

There is a good historic series going in the NI. I wonder whether modern FFs could run in that, but maybe off the back of the grid, on 30sec delay for instance, until their numbers build sufficiently to warrant their own races?

Just re-reading all the posts in this thread because this subject is close to my heart.

No one has addressed these points (or rather this one repeated point) regarding moderns racing with the historics. Since this site is firmly planted in the historic/classic camp, surely someone here could comment......

Thanks,

Russ

[Russ Cunningham]

Just re-reading all the posts in this thread because this subject is close to my heart.

No one has addressed these points (or rather this one repeated point) regarding moderns racing with the historics. Since this site is firmly planted in the historic/classic camp, surely someone here could comment......

Thanks,

Russ

Russ,

A true FF supporter and a voice of reason. I agree!!! let's hope someone at MSNZ takes notice! I've never met Crunch but if anyone at MSNZ is going to take notice then surely this man, the only one so far from MSNZ with the balls to front up.

[Carlo]

Whilst attending the WRC Rally in Spain in 2011 I was introduced to the new manager of Ford Motorsport, obviously the changes in the world economic scene has put many plans on hold, but he did tell me that they were looking at a total revamp of Formula Ford world wide bringing the cars back to a more simple chassis that did not need a F1 engineer to get the best out of it and a control engine that they would supply, the engine to be good for a minimum of three seasons and would be leased from Ford. The thoughts that he expressed to me were quite enlightening and it was very clear that he wanted FF to go back to what is used to be say during the 1980s but with a more modern engine and I would like to think that this plan has only been shelved and not consigned to the rubbish tin. For sure he was adamant that there needed to be a stepping stone between Karts and something like Formula Renault or Formula Toyota where young driver could learn to engineer cars as well as drive them

[Steve Holmes]

Whilst attending the WRC Rally in Spain in 2011 I was introduced to the new manager of Ford Motorsport, obviously the changes in the world economic scene has put many plans on hold, but he did tell me that they were looking at a total revamp of Formula Ford world wide bringing the cars back to a more simple chassis that did not need a F1 engineer to get the best out of it and a control engine that they would supply, the engine to be good for a minimum of three seasons and would be leased from Ford. The thoughts that he expressed to me were quite enlightening and it was very clear that he wanted FF to go back to what is used to be say during the 1980s but with a more modern engine and I would like to think that this plan has only been shelved and not consigned to the rubbish tin. For sure he was adamant that there needed to be a stepping stone between Karts and something like Formula Renault or Formula Toyota where young driver could learn to engineer cars as well as drive them

Although this site is supposed to be about motorsport history and historic motor racing, I feel compelled to let this thread run, because in many ways, FF has such an important and significant history, its that very history that makes it such an important stepping stone for young drivers, to achieve what the hero's of the past have also achieved. To win an FF championship is significant, on a world scale, and is instantly recognised everywhere.

I like what you've suggested here Carlo. Although it might be tempting to try another engine package based on the old FF principles, I feel that to do so would give the feeling of it being a brand new category, rather than reviving/restoring/boosting an existing category that has such a rich and important history. When I hear of a new category being introduced, it somehow always feels temporary, because so many categories come and go, nothing ever seems to stick around for very long. They arrive with a hiss and a roar, plenty of razzamatazz, with manufacturer backing, big fields and real cut and thrust racing, then over the next 3-4 years fizzle away to nothing.

At least FF has 40 years of history behind it that somehow gives a feeling of reassurance that a modern revamped version would be around for the long term.

Its the lists of drivers, current and past that have gone on to much greater things that makes FF so important.

[crunch]

Commercially if we want support from the Ford motor company, we need to stick to a Ford product. That is where the new F/Ford series that I have mentioned and Carlo spoke about fits.

[Russ Noble]

Commercially if we want support from the Ford motor company, we need to stick to a Ford product. That is where the new F/Ford series that I have mentioned and Carlo spoke about fits.

What about support from Honda then?

[crunch]

The other point to consider regarding the Honda thing, is do we want to instigate yet another cost on all the current cars by having to change engines when they now finally have a Kent product that works well and lasts well (unless you over-rev on a bad gear change)

[Grant Ellwood]

Perhaps Toyota could come up with with a FF style car (Toyota Lites?) to support the progression to TRS. Could create an opportunity for up and comers from karting overseas to tag along with their TRS compatriots and race in a healthy Kiwi series.
The existing FFs would find a place in historic racing eventually.

[Powder]

Perhaps Toyota could come up with with a FF style car (Toyota Lites?) to support the progression to TRS. Could create an opportunity for up and comers from karting overseas to tag along with their TRS compatriots and race in a healthy Kiwi series.
The existing FFs would find a place in historic racing eventually.

I think there's already provision within the Toyota Race Series to run a 'lite' car. Same chassis but with detuned engine. Mitch Evans ran a car with that spec 2-3 years ago, but no one ran a 'lite' car this season.

The decision on the future of the TRS is apparently imminent according to this article:
http://www.speedcafe.co.nz/2013/02/1...-to-trs-class/

So, there could be a number of Tatuus chassis' going cheap in the near future.

Edit: More info on TRS Lites here:
http://www.toyotaracing.co.nz/trs-launches-lites

[ERC]

Which raises the question. Given that FF has been a leading class around the world for over 40 years, why are so few running in historic FF now? I would have thought that of all the current historic classes, this should be the largest group by far.

I think that the last thing we need is another single seater class.

[Dave Silcock]

I agree, Although I am suprised that they are not more popular with the historic racer. They must be cheap to run at that level, and I'm told they are fun to drive, but man are they boring to watch, no noise, no revs and not many of them look good. Perhaps they are just not cool!

[Grant Ellwood]

Which raises the question. Given that FF has been a leading class around the world for over 40 years, why are so few running in historic FF now? I would have thought that of all the current historic classes, this should be the largest group by far.

I think that the last thing we need is another single seater class.

Doesn't Historic FF have their own series? I receive their newsletters and the races they organise seem to be well supported. Maybe they don't/can't spend the money to race in other events outside of their own series. Michael Clark, help!

[CUSTAXIE50]

Like most things in life the time does come to move on,to me ff has had its day as they sit today.

[rf84]

ERC. There were 37 Historic FF cars entered for the Denny Hulme Festival which would make it by far the biggest class behind the BMW's. There are also some running with the current FF's at Taupo to make up the numbers.

[ERC]

The festival is a one off event. The normal turnout at a classic meeting is under 20. TACCOC - October 6th 2012 - a programme I just happen to have on my desk:

(ERC) AES/TRADEZONE - 26
(ERC) ARROW WHEELS - 20
HISTORICS - 11
MG SERIES - 14

HISTORIC FF - 11

You will note that this is only a one day club meeting but we managed 46 ERC cars.

As I said, there must be more FFs around than that over a continuous 40 year period? So where are they or why aren't they on the track? Of all the single seater classes around, they have to be the best value for money and at the historic level, relatively cheap to run.

I can understand someone not running a FJ in case they damaged it, as generally, they are probably worth more and scarcer than a FF.

I tend to agree with Dave, as they are not a class I usually watch either, but as club events are about drivers rather than spectators, spectator appeal is not an issue.

[Oldfart]

As I said, there must be more FFs around than that over a continuous 40 year period? So where are they or why aren't they on the track? Of all the single seater classes around, they have to be the best value for money and at the historic level, relatively cheap to run.

Probably because most of them should have had drivers competing as Stock car drivers, and they have been bent. Even some of the guys running in the historics seem to think that knocking each others' corners off is the name of the game. I was standing beside Dave Oxton at the McLaren meeting and his comment was that if guys had driven like that in his day, most of them would have been dead.