Is there a future for Formula Ford?

[Steve Holmes]

Whilst attending the WRC Rally in Spain in 2011 I was introduced to the new manager of Ford Motorsport, obviously the changes in the world economic scene has put many plans on hold, but he did tell me that they were looking at a total revamp of Formula Ford world wide bringing the cars back to a more simple chassis that did not need a F1 engineer to get the best out of it and a control engine that they would supply, the engine to be good for a minimum of three seasons and would be leased from Ford. The thoughts that he expressed to me were quite enlightening and it was very clear that he wanted FF to go back to what is used to be say during the 1980s but with a more modern engine and I would like to think that this plan has only been shelved and not consigned to the rubbish tin. For sure he was adamant that there needed to be a stepping stone between Karts and something like Formula Renault or Formula Toyota where young driver could learn to engineer cars as well as drive them

Although this site is supposed to be about motorsport history and historic motor racing, I feel compelled to let this thread run, because in many ways, FF has such an important and significant history, its that very history that makes it such an important stepping stone for young drivers, to achieve what the hero's of the past have also achieved. To win an FF championship is significant, on a world scale, and is instantly recognised everywhere.

I like what you've suggested here Carlo. Although it might be tempting to try another engine package based on the old FF principles, I feel that to do so would give the feeling of it being a brand new category, rather than reviving/restoring/boosting an existing category that has such a rich and important history. When I hear of a new category being introduced, it somehow always feels temporary, because so many categories come and go, nothing ever seems to stick around for very long. They arrive with a hiss and a roar, plenty of razzamatazz, with manufacturer backing, big fields and real cut and thrust racing, then over the next 3-4 years fizzle away to nothing.

At least FF has 40 years of history behind it that somehow gives a feeling of reassurance that a modern revamped version would be around for the long term.

Its the lists of drivers, current and past that have gone on to much greater things that makes FF so important.

[Russ Noble]

Given the opportunity Racer Rog and Russ would go race Honda powered cars, Carlo would go buy one of his beaut Ecotec cars and start up a class for those and ERC would have us all in ERC cars (whatever they are). So we would now have 5 classes of FF's where now there are 2 (the current FF's+ Historic FF's). But we would not have 5 times as many competitors. So this is why we desperately need a PLAN.

Ummm, no, I never actually said that, but I agree with your point

I have expanded my thoughts on the NZFF. Some may choose to disagree….

With regard to crunch’s report, the MSNZ final recommendations to the executive were fine as far as they went. They were recommendations mainly for immediate cost limitations in the formula and they seem to have been implemented, and that is good. However there is nothing in that to address the real issues facing FF.

Their recommendations concluded by stating.

• As soon as these points are communicated and set in motion, then the rest of the many recommendations in the previous draft documents can be considered.

From my perspective there doesn’t seem to have been much that has happened since. Maybe behind the scenes? Although crunch has stated that this had stalled. It would be enlightening to know in detail the reasons why......

Some of the rest of the recommendations that the report of the FF Focus group identified, amongst other things and slightly paraphrased:-

FF must attract long term, “journeyman” competitors and make FF a destination as opposed to a stop off point

That MSNZ and TRS management jointly investigate the possibility of an “incentives scheme” for the winner(s) of the NZFF Championship
Which may even be an incentive for some of the younger competitors to stay within the class to hone their skills for another year
This could be in the form of a free engine lease for the coming season. (I presume they mean for TRS)

That’s all well and good and no one could argue with any of that and it would be good to see that implemented.

BUT everything in the documents looks only at the championship itself. The focus needs to be widened to consider the underlying factors that affect participation in the championship. Particularly with respect to long term competitors.

The major issue facing FF, is that FF must attract long term competitors.

This was identified by the Focus Group although they didn’t state it was the major issue. That is my take on it. There are other issues, but that of long term competitors is the major one IMO.
Due to the cost involved crossing the Strait and the distances involved, the majority of long time competitors are only likely to do the Championship races in their own island. Say three meetings. Not much incentive to own or race a car!

If FF is to remain viable nationally, a NIFF series is needed.

There needs to be a ”feeder” into the NZFF in the form of a NI regional championship to engender enthusiasm and promote the class at the “journeyman” level, similar to the SIFF.

If we look at SIFF, it is a regional championship currently over six rounds where locals can get competitive seat time and feed into the NZFF. If it wasn’t for South Island entrants, where would the current NZFF championship be? Teretonga and Levels had only one NI entrant. Manfield, HD and Taupo, 4 SI entrants, all front runners. Where would Taupo have been without the historic Fords?

The SIFF Championship is viewed seriously by those competing in it and it is interesting that two of the three top runners in NZFF in the time between HD and Taupo chose to bring their cars home, change out their championship motors for their spare ones to compete in the SIFF Levels round last weekend. Then change them back again. They’ve got the Taupo Tier 1 final this weekend and the SIFF final at Ruapuna next weekend.

Quite frankly in the SI we could be quite insular, we have a six round SI series. It is a grass roots series run “by the competitors, for the competitors” with no MSNZ organisational involvement, although our regs align with Sch. F. Despite recent lows, grid numbers are now showing signs of resurgence. So far this season we have had double digit grids at all meetings, despite the attrition caused by cars not present due to damage and other disasters. I am optimistic enough to believe next season will build on this and continue the upswing.

Personally, I would like to see the NZFF rounds in the SI also be incorporated by SIFF as part of the SIFF championship which would presumably boost NZFF grids as has happened in the past. This would then make the SIFF an 8 or 9 round series. However there may be some resistance to that idea from other competitors, some of whom may view multi day meetings as overly onerous financially and time wise. All the SIFF rounds are one day events, usually Sunday.

A change away from the Kent engine would be a retrograde step.

IMO at the present time. Many of the “journeymen” competitors for instance would probably be very hesitant about leasing engines from Ford or anyone. Also whilst the Honda may be a good thing in itself, the Kent engine is established and it is possible that if the Honda, or any other engine was adopted by NZFF that SIFF would stay with the Kent, as the existing formula works well for our series.

That would of course have a significant flow on effect to NZFF. It is a fact that SIFF is a stand alone series and doesn’t actually need MSNZ or NZFF. Indeed, if anything, the reverse is true. It follows therefore that MSNZ and NZFF need a regional NIFF series from which to also draw competitors.

So in answer to the question in the subject of this thread. Yes there is a future for FF provided a feeder regional NI series can be established. But this will only happen if there is a combined will amongst car owners and drivers and clubs/promoters to make it happen IMHO.

The question then becomes how, and what is the best way this can be achieved?

[rf84]

Whilst reviving the FF class by introducing newer Ford engines appears to be a solution it may well make matters worse. FF started in the UK in 1967 and the Kent motor was used for over 30 years. Since it was replaced there have been 3 Ford engines-the Zetec, Duratec and the Ecotec. The cost of changing motors and chassis every 3-5 years would be enormous compared to maintaining an old FF1600 (Kent) car.
There is a thriving Historic FF class in NZ. I have raced with them and it is a good class. I recently rebuilt my motor and installed a brand new clutch. I had no difficulty getting parts and the cost was just a shade under $1500.
The problem as I said previously is the lack of new FF1600 Kent chassis.

[Wal Will]

My two Bobs worth - because I am fond of motor racing, and we have to be looking after the entry level. I write this not as a solution, but hopefully to add to the debate
It was mentioned early in this thread that there is a need for a ‘feeder class’ from go-karts into Motor racing, with Formula Ford for a long time filling that roll.
Was also mentioned that ‘vested interest’ made Formula Ford too expensive for most Dads – and let’s face it they are still the ones funding their kids racing at this level.
I see one of the expenses of Formula Ford being the fact that there are motors that are definitely better than others. Even amongst Teams, they have one or two that are constantly fast (yet legal), they have been give names and are spoken of in awe, and if you want your child to have one of these few – then you pay.
Meanwhile motor legality amongst Historic Formula Fords has become a joke, with straight line handling, accepted as a means to compensate for lesser driver skills. (You can huff and puff over that sentence if you like, but trust me I know it is true.)
I would welcome Ford supplying a ‘Modern’ alternative controlled motor, which was sealed and let’s say in an ideal world serviced only by college students. A 1000c.c. modern motor would put out more power than a Kent, rev higher, and hopefully make a better noise.
As has been said the historic cars could still retain the Kent – if they wished to do so,
So many times people start yet another class of racing in an attempt to fill a role.
To use an example Star Cars were built in New Zealand to try and create a cheap competitive form of racing, but they were not in line with the Australian Auscars, or the American Legends, all using the same design build principals (motor cycle engine/gearbox, strict controls) but all different enough that they cannot cross the water and race against each other.
It would be great to see Australia and New Zealand getting together and having a chassis/tub built to a cost and safety standard, and an engine supplier (and I for one am not against motorcycle components) signed up. I think T.R.S. has been great in the fact that it has levelled the playing field.
Go-kart kid’s dads often are not interested in the machinery, but by the time they are ready to leave Karting , most if not all of the kids will have had Data readouts on their steering wheels and have learned a lot about what it takes to make a Kart handle. I would be conceivable that the new cars might have a locked differential and some of the variables that make a kart work – track width, caster change - for example.
I will follow this thread with interest.

[Racer Rog]

The Kent engine is still run in the States, along with the Honda, the Honda has a restrictor plate in the inlet manifold, limiting the power to that of a top tune Kent, The SCCA put a proposal to Ford for a modern engine, this was turned down, and it was only after Honda came onboard with the Fit engine ( which we have here in every wreckers yard) that they went ahead and came out with a new block casting, that reall has been the extent of their involvement, Ford in New Zealand stopped supporting FF years ago, you used to get discounted parts, but that is a distant memory now.
The Honda engine has been adapted to many makes of chassis HPD have all the information on this, and many have done it themselves, as far as chassis goes, again you have to look to the States for any new development here, as there is more FF racing there than anywhere else, and Radon have put out a new chassis, which is quite clever.
To get a interest in FF of Formula F as they call it in the US, you have to look at what the youth of today are looking at, you don't see so called boy racers running Ford Cortina's or Anglia's around the streets, that was done by all the old farts here, they are not into Webbers, but fuel injection, and when even the most humble of a boy racer's car puts out 140 odd HP, the appeal just isn't there any more, not saying that the skill in driving is in any way diminished, and there is a great deal of skill involved in keeping an old Kent engined FF between the lines on a track, as those of us who have and still race them know, its not what the young driver of today wants/understands, hell I for the life of don't understand drifting, and many here would go along with me on that one, its not the quickest way to go around a corner, but see just how many young guys and the odd lady, go to watch or take part, there would be more competing the that form of motorsport than race in FF, so who is right, 8 to 10 cars in a National grid ? who's fooling who here?
Roger

[Wal Will]

Roger I have raced 3 separate Formula Fords over the last few years (all borrowed) and thoroughly enjoyed them all. I used to be one of those people who thought they were boring and a joke to watch but not any more. The big field at Hampton Downs had good dices going on all the way down through the race order.
If there was a way to regulate the Honda transplant so that we once again had some parity I would happily do that to the one that I buy, and race under Formula F.

[Michael Clark]

The FF races at Taupo over the weekend were great - none better than the last race where Leitch, Munro, Alexander and Collins were all over one another and young Kim Crocker was not far behind - with Kenny in there too.

Based on yesterday, the quality is certainly there but sadly not the quantity - there were more of our Old Fart FFs in the field than the moderns - but they weren't disgraced and no one was lapped. What you don't see much of - in either Tier 1 or our historic stuff, are Ford stickers on cars.

It has been said before - why would Ford need to put any money into a category that carries its name and,as a result, they get the publicity for free. If an engine could be dropped into an existing Tier 1 type chassis (with a minimum of fuss) and be provided on really friendly terms because the manufacturer behind that engine really wanted to use a junior category to promote their products, then the day of the Kent in Tier 1 would come to an end.

I just wonder how likely that is.

[Habu]

Ok, I've had a quick read through this thread, and will add my 5 cents worth.....

I love motorsport, and despite the emaciated Formula Ford class that is currently being run, still believe like everyone else here that its a fundamentally great class. So why havent I decided to pursue it with my 17 year old son?

Pretty simple really, its cost. The idea of supporting / funding an engine builders retirement fund by way of 40 year old Cortina engines just doesnt really entice me into the class. C'mon Motorsport NZ (or whatever its called nowadays), more modern interpretations of a suitable engine have been available for many years. 70k for a modernish car, with old mechanicals is hardly "enrty level" single seater racing. I've spoken to several parents whose kids raced a season or two in F/F, and surprisingly the majority of them said it was financial suicide. I know we could have looked at Formula First / Vee, but more experienced racers I spoke to suggested that if one was serious about single seater racing, that it was better to side step this class in favour of a "real" single seater.....

Instead we decided to purchase a KZ2 class kart. Its power to weight ratio is impressive, its a challenge to drive, and a challenge for Dad.

[Michael Clark]

I watched all the Formula First races at Taupo over the weekend - great racing! I know the category is much maligned and a lot of fans have used the F Vee race over the years as the time for a hot dog, but I can rarely recall a dull race.

Sexy they are not - "real" racing cars? - I know what you mean..but the front cars at least look a far cry from the dumpy little things that would have turned a number of people off.

[jim short]

Add to the above in the last five years three of the drivers are now racing overseas all with a very bright looking future.

[crunch]

Ok, I've had a quick read through this thread, and will add my 5 cents worth.....

I love motorsport, and despite the emaciated Formula Ford class that is currently being run, still believe like everyone else here that its a fundamentally great class. So why havent I decided to pursue it with my 17 year old son?

Pretty simple really, its cost. The idea of supporting / funding an engine builders retirement fund by way of 40 year old Cortina engines just doesnt really entice me into the class. C'mon Motorsport NZ (or whatever its called nowadays), more modern interpretations of a suitable engine have been available for many years. 70k for a modernish car, with old mechanicals is hardly "enrty level" single seater racing. I've spoken to several parents whose kids raced a season or two in F/F, and surprisingly the majority of them said it was financial suicide. I know we could have looked at Formula First / Vee, but more experienced racers I spoke to suggested that if one was serious about single seater racing, that it was better to side step this class in favour of a "real" single seater.....

Instead we decided to purchase a KZ2 class kart. Its power to weight ratio is impressive, its a challenge to drive, and a challenge for Dad.

Hi Habu
I fear that you may have been misinformed regarding the costs of Formula Ford. A lot of misinformation has circulated regarding $$$ required for quite a few years.
You can buy a current championship car complete for around the 30K mark, not 70K as you have been told. Although the Kent engine has 40 years of history behind it; the current ones are not "old" and are very reliable as long as the driver doesnt cock-up a downshift and over-rev. You should be able to do the whole season without pulling apart any of the engine with the current regulations.

The new spec F/Ford that I would like to see introduced to NZ over a phase in period is 35K pounds and the engine/gearbox is sealed by Ford. In two years time these cars will be secondhand and around the $30-40K NZ mark.

[ERC]

Over the years, my concentration and interest in sporting cars has shifted somewhat. When the only single seaters on a 1959 (UK) club or national race programme were in the libre class, the majority of the programme was really sports cars. Then saloon cars rose dramatically in popularity, Formual Junior was introduced as a stepping stone to F1, then later, FF.

Remember that from 1961 - 1965, F1 was only 1500cc! FF 1600cc to F1 wasn't really such a dramatic step.

Over the last 45 years we have seen F1 move from cars we'd all like to have a go in, to missiles generating G forces that only super fit and strong guys (and gals) can cope with.

We went from "wow, a real race car!" to ho-hum, as most single seaters seem to be like computer designed popular cars without any character in looks. That early attention and interest has gradually shifted to watching or running cars with a bit more character.

FF is still an ideal stepping stone to greater things, but it is no longer THE stepping stone. Now, it may be Karts -> FF -> TRS in NZ then off to any of the European single seater formulae.

Single seater racing was always the real pinnacle, particularly F1, but the huge costs and all the various options to get to the top, have made it far less attractive somehow. Taxi racing gets more column inches than any single seater class.

Affordability is still an issue by the sounds of it and the perceptions also appear to be varied!

FF needs to survive in as close to its current form as possible. As before, classes within a decent sized grid are far more attractive to outsiders. Most spectators are just not too worried about what is under the engine cowl.

[jim short]

Why are they paying $12000, in Ausie for a Ford motor thats good for 3years without touching????

[928]

because they are STUPID no kent engine is worth that only three years I can buy escorts here that are 40 years old for $3-4 k could make a fortune from aussies pulling the engines and shipping them over run in. they must be dumb

[jim short]

I am not sure who is stupid, the $12,000, BRAND new a Focus?? or simila is brought by the FF club 5 at atime checked out all the same then sealed in a plastic cover .

[Habu]

Hi Habu
I fear that you may have been misinformed regarding the costs of Formula Ford. A lot of misinformation has circulated regarding $$$ required for quite a few years.
You can buy a current championship car complete for around the 30K mark, not 70K as you have been told. Although the Kent engine has 40 years of history behind it; the current ones are not "old" and are very reliable as long as the driver doesnt cock-up a downshift and over-rev. You should be able to do the whole season without pulling apart any of the engine with the current regulations.

The new spec F/Ford that I would like to see introduced to NZ over a phase in period is 35K pounds and the engine/gearbox is sealed by Ford. In two years time these cars will be secondhand and around the $30-40K NZ mark.

Hi Crunch,

Ok, possibly a little optimistic in my pricing, but a competitive car I would ascertain is going to cost between $30-60k. The Kent engine is brown bread, and as you have indicated, an over rev with a novice driver see's an unhappy Dad, a sorry kid, and a box of bits ready for the engine builder of your choice. The quality of racing in either the First or Ford class at the pointy end of the field, I would never dispute - its great racing.

I'd be keen to see what MSNZ thinks it costs to run a competitive car per meeting, comparative to the figures I've heard banded around.
Its just a shame that the cost to have an endorsed replacement will take a few years to implement. I imagine that like a lot of motorsports around the world, our governing body here is both trying to attract new blood, and satisfy and retain its existing participants.....

[Russ Noble]

The new spec F/Ford that I would like to see introduced to NZ over a phase in period is 35K pounds and the engine/gearbox is sealed by Ford. In two years time these cars will be secondhand and around the $30-40K NZ mark.

Do you mean the Ecoboost 200? Approx 200 bhp, 6 speed sequential, wings and slicks. spaceframe car?

Doesn't TRS only have about 220 bhp? Maybe cheaper than TRS but don't you think young kids in a hurry with money, would skip this and go straight to TRS since the spec is not that dissimilar? Since thats where they are headed anyway.... And lets face it, you've got to have money to be a young kid successful in motor racing, Frankly I see this as too far removed from the original FF concept to be a logical replacement.

Although the Kent engine has 40 years of history behind it; the current ones are not "old" and are very reliable as long as the driver doesnt cock-up a downshift and over-rev. You should be able to do the whole season without pulling apart any of the engine with the current regulations.

And I can testify that even after half a dozen times cocking up the UP shift (ie flat shifting from 2nd then get 1st when looking for 3rd), massive over revs and it still hangs together. I have now redone the linkages, that has the potential to be the cheaper option! The Kent engine is pretty bulletproof all round. I think wacking the flywheel on the ripple strips probably leads to more broken cranks than a few over revs. I think any motor would be susceptible to that.

OK. So suddenly we wind up with a handful of Ecoboosts here as the new class. What will that change, other than all the existing cars have instantly become redundant?

I know, as Wally has commented, that there are "pet" named motors in FF that if you want to be a front runner you have to buy or lease. Its solid dollars but compared to the costs they are going to incur in subsequent years as they move into other formula, it's peanuts. Thats the way it is, money talks. The type of guys that spend that sort of money will always be there, passing through. The average long term midfield runner with his $5000 motor that he can build and rebuild himself at minimal cost can still have good close racing with other guys who are doing the same thing.

The point is, they need to have somewhere to do it and in the NI other than the three national rounds, there is nowhere. In my opinion that is the biggest threat to the future of FF. Not whether we retain the Kent engine, or go to a Honda Fit or go Ecoboost 200.

[ERC]

Given that Historic FF joined the moderns at Taupo, so what is stopping the moderns from joining the Historics at HRC or TACCOC meetings? They don't have to be championship events. Or do they have to pay a (higher) sanctioned series race entry fee at a classic meeting? Just a thought.

[Carlo]

There are a couple of things that to me have stood out in this discusion so far. The first is Russ,s point about the lack of events in the North Island, as father used to say, "if you don't get your line wet you won't catch a fish" so there needs to be races held to encourage participation.
The second is that there are so many comments about variety to what was a pretty simple formula world wide and this is what I was informed concerned Ford Motorsport. This is why they would like to go back to the future and have a Formula Ford that was recognised everywhere in the world and could be raced in any country without change. They don't want US rules and UK rules and NZ rules etc, they want one set of regulations and specifications world wide and frankly, if they don't have that then why should they bother being involved.
I was impressed by the knowledge of they displayed about our NZ FF history, of it's people and of their succeses in other classes of motorsport, I was impressed that they saw themselves as a step on the way and not as a destination. I was impressed that they saw FF in it's true light as something akin to a junior formula where one could learn true race craft and basic race engineering skills

[crunch]

Do you mean the Ecoboost 200? Approx 200 bhp, 6 speed sequential, wings and slicks. spaceframe car?

Doesn't TRS only have about 220 bhp? Maybe cheaper than TRS but don't you think young kids in a hurry with money, would skip this and go straight to TRS since the spec is not that dissimilar? Since thats where they are headed anyway.... And lets face it, you've got to have money to be a young kid successful in motor racing, Frankly I see this as too far removed from the original FF concept to be a logical replacement.




And I can testify that even after half a dozen times cocking up the UP shift (ie flat shifting from 2nd then get 1st when looking for 3rd), massive over revs and it still hangs together. I have now redone the linkages, that has the potential to be the cheaper option! The Kent engine is pretty bulletproof all round. I think wacking the flywheel on the ripple strips probably leads to more broken cranks than a few over revs. I think any motor would be susceptible to that.

OK. So suddenly we wind up with a handful of Ecoboosts here as the new class. What will that change, other than all the existing cars have instantly become redundant?

I know, as Wally has commented, that there are "pet" named motors in FF that if you want to be a front runner you have to buy or lease. Its solid dollars but compared to the costs they are going to incur in subsequent years as they move into other formula, it's peanuts. Thats the way it is, money talks. The type of guys that spend that sort of money will always be there, passing through. The average long term midfield runner with his $5000 motor that he can build and rebuild himself at minimal cost can still have good close racing with other guys who are doing the same thing.

The point is, they need to have somewhere to do it and in the NI other than the three national rounds, there is nowhere. In my opinion that is the biggest threat to the future of FF. Not whether we retain the Kent engine, or go to a Honda Fit or go Ecoboost 200.

All good points