Is there a future for Formula Ford?

[rf84]

Thanks ERC. I hope the "experiment"is successful and that you get the support you deserve.
A major part of the 'problem' motor sport is facing (and, I would suggest, many sports clubs and clubs in general) is NZ's geography and demographics. If you look at it logically we have a land area bigger than the UK (that's England, Scotland Ireland and Wales all put together) but with approximately 1/20th of the population (4 million vs 80-odd mill). So if/when someone "invents" a new class of racing, we do not necessarily attract new competitors. All we do is spread our already low number of competitors more thinly over more classes.
One day when I have the time I intend to compile a list of all the classes of cars racing in NZ. I know this website is dedicated to the more historic side of motorsport, but with Steve's permission I will start a thread with the list on the RS.

[ERC]

It isn't the number of classes per se, it is the opportunities to actually race the cars. Within our April 21st meeting there are two Thoroughbred/Marque series races - individually run. Whereas one group has a long series history, the other is fairly new. The 'older group' are happy to combine to make good grids, whereas the new group won't - which may well be to their long term detriment, as we cannot afford two non financially viable grids at a one day meeting. It is as simple as that. Every meeting has to at least break even (a profit would be better!).

We (ERC) had to split into two groups and BMW have had to split into four! So, far from depleting the pool, the opportunities are there to expand the pool, just as long as there is a genuine need and the rules, structure and administration are robust.

We still have a slowly growing number of Formula Juniors even now, and FF should really be massive.

If the only issue for getting seat time is getting invitions, then just approach meeting organisers. I am not sure of the current sanctioned series entry fees, but running a car in a non-sanctioned series event, paying the normal entry fee, is no problem - just as long as it is clear to the drivers that there are no sanctioned points.

[Russ Noble]

ERC, that's a massive step in the right direction. Thanks for that.

It will be interesting to see if anyone avails themselves of this opportunity. It's also a matter of getting the info out to the potential competitors. Maybe some of the historic FF racers on here could spread the word amongst the moderns they know? I would anticipate a slow uptake of this offer initially but hopefully over time as word gets out it will gain strength.

[Russ Cunningham]

As we all know there are many cars from the 90's and even later, laying round unused. A crying bloody shame but the owners need something positive to ignite their enthusiasm. If I had the dosh I'd do just that, but!!!!!

This is where we need the indulgence and support of both MSNZ and the Ford Motor Company...... FORD! Come to the party and put your money behind the formula or risk it becoming Formula Honda or Formula Cherry????

[rf84]

Eric Mallard told me that an approach had been made to Ford about financial support for FF but they were not interested. As another member pointed out in a previous post, why would they? The brand name is synonomous with the class-their Ford name is out there every time the cars race, appear on TV etc. They no longer stock or sell parts for the Kent engine (or any of their models prior to 1998!!!!) so there's no money in it for them.

[crunch]

Ford would support the new Formula4/Ford that is current in Europe as that is part of the whole package.

If the current cars are kept and the field gets bigger; it just needs a sponsor, not Ford itself.

[Howard Wood]

I think the point is Crunch that Ford have ridden for free on FFord for many years. If they come on board in the future, fine, but at this point the class doesn't really owe them any loyalty or special favours.

Even back in the '70s their financial input was small and the conditions/ sponsorship exclusions they imposed quite severe.

[crunch]

I think the point is Crunch that Ford have ridden for free on FFord for many years. If they come on board in the future, fine, but at this point the class doesn't really owe them any loyalty or special favours.

Even back in the '70s their financial input was small and the conditions/ sponsorship exclusions they imposed quite severe.

Agree, I didnt quite word my reply correctly.
As an aside; I Had a look at your car in the weekend Howard. Just like to say I'm not a BMW fan persay, but you have done a wonderful job in building it. Very nice.

[Racer Rog]

I think the point is Crunch that Ford have ridden for free on FFord for many years. If they come on board in the future, fine, but at this point the class doesn't really owe them any loyalty or special favours.

Even back in the '70s their financial input was small and the conditions/ sponsorship exclusions they imposed quite severe.

I agree here Howard, you thought you were getting a good deal, but in short they were screwing us, they had a huge amount of marketing out FF, at no real cost, I don't share Crunch's view, that they will oversee the rebirth of FF with integrity, and would rather go with the Honda version, as I believe that this would be a cheaper and more cost effective option, and put a limit on shock options this will level the field out a bit. Having like many, been bitten by Ford, in FF over the years, have seen a package from Ford that will fly. and I think that if they are serious, they should show their hand, so this can be debated.
Roger

[rf84]

I have tried unsuccessfully to get info on this new Formula 4. Can anyone provide a link or give us a summary of what Formula 4 involves? I still associate F4 with funny little Tecnos and Walkers with 250cc motorcycle motors!!!!!!

[Powder]

I have tried unsuccessfully to get info on this new Formula 4. Can anyone provide a link or give us a summary of what Formula 4 involves? I still associate F4 with funny little Tecnos and Walkers with 250cc motorcycle motors!!!!!!

Some info here: http://www.formula4.com/
They look good and are made by Ralph Firman, who founded Van Dieman.
Although it's a one-make series, I don't think an RF84 would be allowed.

[Russ Noble]

This is the page that describes the car.
http://www.formula4.com/the-car.aspx

Not too far removed from the new Ecoboost 200 F Ford, both have wings and slicks but F4 has 185 hp from an old Duratec engine whereas the new FF has 200 from the new Ecoboost. And here is some discussion about F4.
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134824
There is quite a bit of superfluous stuff to wade through but there are some insightful observations too.

Both are the wrong choice for NZ as their spec is too close to our Toyotas and will immediately render our current crop of F Fords obsolete. And who would import these cars anyway? You may as well jump straight into a Toyota which is a proven class rather than gambling on a newly introduced but similar class which may or may not be successful. It would be like having two competing V8 saloon car classes!

We need to get back to the original concept of FF. A simple car to hone race craft skills and to give a young guy an indication as to whether he has the basic potential to go further. Without spending megabucks to find out. Our current FF regs can be tailored to achieve that by restricting the areas where the big money is sometimes spent. That would remove the conception that you need a lot of money to compete successfully in FF and hopefully things would flow from there…….

[Carlo]

We need to get back to the original concept of FF. A simple car to hone race craft skills and to give a young guy an indication as to whether he has the basic potential to go further. Without spending megabucks to find out. ….

Which is exactly the vision of the formula that the manager of Ford Motorsport was expressing to me at the 2011 WRC event in Spain.

[Russ Noble]

Which is a great sentiment.

But they wouldn't/couldn't step up with anything suitable in the States and because of that Honda came to the party with exactly what was required. Now in 2013 Ford are behind the FF200 Ecoboost and that is just not an option on the NZ scene, for all the reasons already mentioned.

But the Honda is.

Ford have seriously dropped the ball on this one. And their record with FF in NZ is less than optimal, as earlier posters have stated. We have no reason to show any allegiance to Ford.

[crunch]

Think I have changed my mind with all the good input on here. I now think that we need to put "on-hold" introducing a new generation Formula Ford class. We need to attract the "already here" field out of the sheds. I dont think that problem is as much to do with the engine as some have stated, but the perception of costs. I take on board what Barry Leitch has said and believe it. It shows you dont have to have a fat wallet/big sponsor to run at the front.

Now MSNZ has to find ways and incentives to get a field out there, many have already been presented to them with the internal report of 3 years ago, but there are more we should start working on TODAY with the FF Association.

However; unless Honda are paying as a class sponsor, I dont see any fit in the near future for them. It has only been called Formula Ford because that is what it is known as, can be Formula ??? (whoever is paying). One year, the Class 2 cars were called Formula Dunlop due to a sponsorship arrangement so it may not automatically be called Formula Ford, but we know we will all refer to it as that.....

[crunch]

[QUOTE=crunch;26391]

However; unless Honda are paying as a class sponsor, I dont see any fit in the near future for them. QUOTE]


Fit....get it???

[rf84]

Powder. Thanks for that link. The F4 car certainly looks impressive but I think it also looks rather complex-probably too complex to be a viable "starter" car on the single seater ladder. As for the RF84, they were way behind the '8 ball' in 1984 let alone 2013!!!!! (except in the hands of the brilliant Ashley Stichbury).
There are heaps of Kent FF cars around (though few being built new) and parts are cheap and not a problem to obtain. I did an engine freshen up a couple of months ago and installed a new clutch. Cost was $1500 ($1000 for parts and $500 for beer). No. Seriously-came out just under $1500.

[Russ Noble]

Got it without the prompt!

Good thoughts Crunch.

I’m not sure if its necessary for Honda to put in any money though. Be nice if they did, but if we can get the same deal they have in the States or buy them ex US at the US rates, then that would be the Honda contribution, and the best option for competitors.

And if no one is picking up series sponsorship it could be referred to as Formula F, and that covers it whether you are running a Ford or a Fit. As they have done in the States.

Just out of interest, how much did Ford put into the Formula Ford Championship this year, and how was it distributed?

You are right, work needs to begin immediately on how to entice all those existing cars out... The motor consideration is more something to be addressed after we have achieved that.

[Russ Cunningham]

Got it without the prompt!

Good thoughts Crunch.

I’m not sure if its necessary for Honda to put in any money though. Be nice if they did, but if we can get the same deal they have in the States or buy them ex US at the US rates, then that would be the Honda contribution, and the best option for competitors.

And if no one is picking up series sponsorship it could be referred to as Formula F, and that covers it whether you are running a Ford or a Fit. As they have done in the States.

Just out of interest, how much did Ford put into the Formula Ford Championship this year, and how was it distributed?

You are right, work needs to begin immediately on how to entice all those existing cars out... The motor consideration is more something to be addressed after we have achieved that.

You're onto it!

[Wal Will]

rf84 is saying that there are lots of F/Fords out there but few being built. I have seen a book (of poor construction with the pages falling out) listing the makers of Formula Fords in the earlier days. There were heaps of them - many just making one or 2 cars. George Begg made 4 (with his second - Humber 80 powered car - later being converted making 5).
It would be great if earlier cars could be upgraded by owners, to be more competative.
Problem with a 'historic' car is that if it was bad in period people don't want alter it and loose its classification. If we got back to old and new running together, and it was possible to make an old car quicker, I think it should be done, and just consider it part of adding to its history. I drove the Begg 02 in its F/Ford guise and it is still a good car.