Roll cages

[Russ Cunningham]

I come back to what I've stated previously. It's not for PC wankers to put a price on my head, it's up to me and the price is a buck!!!
If I want to race with a piece of exhaust tube above my head then that's my choice, not for some other superior, do gooding, bastard to do so.

Is MSNZ TAKING A VOLUNTARY STANCE ON FREEDOM OF CHOICE? I't wouldn't surprise me! A group of self interested do-gooders with little interest in the future of Motor Sport in NZ.

Boys! you've blown out competition costs for the true enthusiasts-----take a look at FF as an example....once we had qualifying for grid positons, now we have a maximum grid of eight cars. WELL DONE MSNZ!!!

If anarchy was a choice we'd shoot the lot of you!

ps. Hats off to Crunch for having the guts to be counted and responding to grips.

[crunch]

Hello Russ

The Formula Ford scanrio is a bit off topic, but it's demise is due to a number of factors, not all in the pervue of MSNZ.
In fact three years ago I was charged along with a small group to sort out the mess. This group made recommendations that werent accepted by the Exec of MSNZ AND the Formula Ford Association.

Perception of costs is a huge factor in Formula Ford at a Championship level. People thought you had to spend hundreds of thousands of $$ to win. Not true. It has been proven that you can compete at around $5K per meeting including all costs. But people choose not to believe it, they prefer to listen to the horror stories of 5 to 6 years ago.

Maybe another factor could be the use of what could be termed old technology in the Kent engine. However with minor changes over the last few years, these have been reliable and you should be able to do the season with one engine and use it the following season.

Formula Ford needs a kickstart, but the impedious for this to happen needs to come from the Formula Ford Association.
Send me your email address in a PM and I will send you the report we put together 3 years ago.

Yes; MSNZ has made some cock-ups, but they are not solely responsible for the state of Formula Ford.

[Lotus7Alfa]

Perception of costs is a huge factor in Formula Ford at a Championship level. People thought you had to spend hundreds of thousands of $$ to win. Not true. It has been proven that you can compete at around $5K per meeting including all costs. But people choose not to believe it, they prefer to listen to the horror stories of 5 to 6 years ago.

Not wishing to hijack the thread but, as a mere spectator unaware of the costs of racing, does FF really cost $5,000 per meeting??!! Phew!

[Racer Rog]

Not wishing to hijack the thread but, as a mere spectator unaware of the costs of racing, does FF really cost $5,000 per meeting??!! Phew!

Yep! but then, you think of traveling from Riverton, ( and yes I do know where that is, we used to have a crib there, or batch to all N/Islanders) to Levels at Timaru for a weekend racing, classic style, entry $200 to $300, fuel about $200 towing a trailer, two nights saying in a motel $250 to $300, race fuel, $100, feed and water the troops all weekend $500, so even at that level its not cheap, you are looking at $1400, and that not taking into account wear and tear of your car, now if you are running in Tier One FF, there are all the other costs if you want to be near the pointy end, with the top guys spend upto $30000 for a engine at the start of the season, lap the valves in at every meeting, and maybe a stripdown between meetings to keep the performance of the engine upto the 117 Hp they now seem to get out of them ( original 68 hp), so you can see that the costs can mount up, you can do it a lot cheaper, and many do just that, but if you want to win, well that's another story, and there are many here who could tell you a tale or two about what that costs.
But in saying all that, we are very lucky here in NZ, that we get so much bang for buck, whhen talking to one of the English FJ drivers, he put into perspective when he said, that at the levels meeting, he got as much racing in one weekend as he did in one whole season back in the UK, over the weekend, which starts on Friday at Noon, we ran 50 races through to Sunday at 4.30 in the afternoon, an very slick operation thanks to the SCCC and The Classic Motor Racing Club.
Roger

[Lotus7Alfa]

Yep! but then, you think of traveling from Riverton, ( and yes I do know where that is, we used to have a crib there, or batch to all N/Islanders) to Levels at Timaru for a weekend racing, classic style, entry $200 to $300, fuel about $200 towing a trailer, two nights saying in a motel $250 to $300, race fuel, $100, feed and water the troops all weekend $500, so even at that level its not cheap, you are looking at $1400, and that not taking into account wear and tear of your car, now if you are running in Tier One FF, there are all the other costs if you want to be near the pointy end, with the top guys spend upto $30000 for a engine at the start of the season, lap the valves in at every meeting, and maybe a stripdown between meetings to keep the performance of the engine upto the 117 Hp they now seem to get out of them ( original 68 hp), so you can see that the costs can mount up, you can do it a lot cheaper, and many do just that, but if you want to win, well that's another story, and there are many here who could tell you a tale or two about what that costs.
But in saying all that, we are very lucky here in NZ, that we get so much bang for buck, whhen talking to one of the English FJ drivers, he put into perspective when he said, that at the levels meeting, he got as much racing in one weekend as he did in one whole season back in the UK, over the weekend, which starts on Friday at Noon, we ran 50 races through to Sunday at 4.30 in the afternoon, an very slick operation thanks to the SCCC and The Classic Motor Racing Club.
Roger

Thanks for that, you're right, it does soon add up! I talked to one of the English FJ drivers at Teretonga (the pea green Lotus 22 in my photos) and he was enthusing about all the racing - he'd done the 6 week tour and reckoned the car would need a rebuild by the time he got back to the UK

[jim short]

I was in Aussie about five yrs back with Martin racing a FF ,they all were using a Ford {Focus??/} cost $12,000, the FF outfit brought them 5 at atime and made sure they all the same,they were unbreakable and ran for 3yrs without touching,.The old brigaade wanted to keep the Kent for obvious reasons..

[Russ Cunningham]

Hello Russ

The Formula Ford scanrio is a bit off topic, but it's demise is due to a number of factors, not all in the pervue of MSNZ.
In fact three years ago I was charged along with a small group to sort out the mess. This group made recommendations that werent accepted by the Exec of MSNZ AND the Formula Ford Association.

Perception of costs is a huge factor in Formula Ford at a Championship level. People thought you had to spend hundreds of thousands of $$ to win. Not true. It has been proven that you can compete at around $5K per meeting including all costs. But people choose not to believe it, they prefer to listen to the horror stories of 5 to 6 years ago.

Maybe another factor could be the use of what could be termed old technology in the Kent engine. However with minor changes over the last few years, these have been reliable and you should be able to do the season with one engine and use it the following season.

Formula Ford needs a kickstart, but the impedious for this to happen needs to come from the Formula Ford Association.
Send me your email address in a PM and I will send you the report we put together 3 years ago.

Yes; MSNZ has made some cock-ups, but they are not solely responsible for the state of Formula Ford.

Hi Crunch,

Thanks for responding to the gripes (not grips) of a bitter old man who had drunk too much bitter prior to writing.

You're correct, FF does need a kick start! maybe Formula Honda as has been suggested but you also have to look at how the FF regulations have been tampered with over the years, in some cases to accomodate competitors who have bottomless bank accounts and who can afford to assist MSNZ officials in ways that disadvantage less wealthy competitors.

Having said that, I also take on board that MSNZ are not solely responsible for the state of FF but MSNZ has most certainly contributed to the state of FF racing today. One only needs to look for comparison to F.Vee or Formula First as it's now known.

From an enthusiasts point of view, MSNZ looks to be top heavy with people who don't value the sport sufficiently well to do a good job. I exclude yourself from this rather sweeping statement but nevertheless, I believe this to be true. Too many small minded chaps in influential jobs. Recent history proves that I'm correct in making this statement.

Good luck to you Crunch. You come across as a genuine, level headed fellow but have you ever thought that you might be the only one?

Regards,

Russ Cunningham

[crunch]

If anarchy was a choice we'd shoot the lot of you!

.

...would need a big bullet for me.....howitzer? or maybe one of those WW1 railway guns??They were cool.

Seriously; I'm not gonna defend MSNZ as a whole because that would be seen as self-serving. But part of the MSNZ you wish to shoot is the H&C Commission who do work tirelessly for the competitors, within the framework of the Strategic Plan and the MSNZ Manual App.6 If the job they are doing isnt working for you or your motorsport, then please suggest changes that can be submitted as remits to conference. Now is the time to do it as car clubs have the remit forms in thier post boxes right now. Please submit your ideas, except maybe not a remit about shooting us...