Originally Posted by
Kiwiboss
I don’t believe we have too many Muscle class’s Richie, we live in a “free” democratic society so anyone can start any group they so wish, and all the more for them. Lot of the problem I see is the use of the word “Muscle” as this seems to spread from a “historically correct saloon” rite out to late model slick shod turbo Porsches, it seems in SI the event organisers use the work Muscle for just about anything presumably to pull the punters though the gates!! But if one was to look at some of the class’s that call themselves “Muscle” and then look at the gridded up vehicles used, they are probably more along the lines of All-Comers or Sports Sedan vehicles(based on motorsport history), but are still considered Muscle by some and that’s OK. With that in mind I guess most GT1 tube frame Trans Am cars are muscle cars as well, infact any performance type vehicle whether new or old can be considered “Muscle” but to use the words “Historic” and “Muscle” in the same sentence that does have a different meaning and should be recognised.
Dale, you are probably correct, personally I am passionate about (in my opinion) the purists muscle car era of mid to late 60's.
You are correct, a factory built German turbo charged sports car is a different animal, from a different era.
I believe CAMS Australia have got it right with their pre 72 Group Nc saloon class and sure wish we had this in NZ, they only allow vehicles that actually race period in Australia but more importantly one can build “today” an old saloon race car to a standardised set of rules without allowing too much technology and as Steve mentions, be able race anywhere in Australia amongst those groups!! But what they have really done rite over the last 30 years is have a strong constitution, a firm set of rules and constant “Eligibility” checks to keep their fleet aligned, something we are about to implement in HMC with the help of MSNZ Historic and Classic Commission. Which brings up another point, some think I’ve/we’ve just invented HMC in our heads when infact all myself, Steve H and Tony R have done is use what they’ve been doing overseas for years, nothing new at all.
Agreed, group Nc make sence. \
Guess the question I was asking with out getting involved with driver standards, philosophy of the class, points ect, is would it not make sense to work towards a common set of technical rules, save for a few minor bolt on components..... as several of the classes are not that dissimilar ( if the rules were enforced), so cars could be run in different " classes" of muscle car racing, depending on the personal preference of the owner driver.
The postings from Ray(ERC) Steve H and Steve E pretty much nail it, Ray you are so rite about driver standards but that’s for another post!! but like anyone else Richie, you can build YOUR Camaro however you want, you don’t have to build it to HMC or anyone’s rules as I’m sure(especially down south) you will always have somewhere to race it!! but if you do this and decide to come north you won’t be eligible for HMC events but this may not concern you. For me personally, short of turning your Camaro into a Tube Frame, NASCAR engine money pit? you’re still struggle to beat those late model twin turbo factory Porsche’s race cars that you’ll be racing with hence why I don’t come south anymore!!
No desire to build a tube chassis car to run with a GT2 Porsche, more that I need to be able to use the car locally with the other similar cars ( Camaro's, mustangs and alike). Its a shame that CMC or HMC don't come South, as it was the best local event I had been to.
The one regret i have with HMC was we probably called it the wrong name, should have been called “Historic Racing Saloons” or similar especially with the over use of the word “Muscle” as mentioned above, but anyway we’re stuck with it and are pressing onwards and now have a “Historic” saloon class that can’t be stopped, im sure this will eventually spread south. As for the other class’s good on then, to me the best race series in NZ is CMC, the show those boys put on is beyond belief!! they talk about Supertourers, V8 supercars, etc which I wouldn’t cross the road for but those boys in CMC are worthy of the entertainment and long may it continue. I see in England they have a similar class called “Thunder Saloons” and I believe that’s very popular over there as well, but certainly NOT Historic.
Love CMC, just budget does not allow to build and maintain a competitive car.
So, too many Muscle car class’s, hmmm!! All I can say is that the money been spent and the new cars been built there ain’t no recession that’s for sure!! and like they often say in an old western movie “choose your weapon of choice” and live with it.
As I have said above, think what you and HMC has done is great, bringing out old "historic racing vehicles" is great, was only putting the question out there if anyone else in all of the classes I mentioned though working towards technical parity would make sense???
Dale M